One Piece - Chapter 581 (manga)

[james0246]

^Technically, Impel Down, and Enies Lobby, is the WG's fault, not the marines. Specifically, Impel Down did not fall to Luffy, it fell to Blackbeard's machinations. And since the WG appoints the Shichibukai, not the marines, Blackbeard's betrayal is simply bad vetting on the part of the WG. Additionally, in regards to Enies Lobby, it was the CP9 and the WG obsession with Super Weapons that lead to the capturing of pirate Robin, which in turn lead to her crewmates seeking to free her (which in turn lead to Spanny-chan accidentally pushing the self-destruct button).

Marineford can be laid at the feet of Sengoku, though, but since the main objectives (the death of Ace and Whitebeard) were met, it cannot be said that Sengoku did not do his duty to the best of his capabilities.

[Poetic Justice]

^^Where is it stated that WG are the ones responsible for the appointment of shichibukai and not the marines?

[Kallen4life]

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Shichibukai

Becoming a Shichibukai

A pirate may choose to join the Shichibukai if a space becomes open (which means that at least one Shichibukai must leave or be kicked from the group, the former being Jinbei's case and the latter being Crocodile's case). However, in order for one to become a Shichibukai once this position opens up, one must be able to show their strength against other pirates while choosing to pledge loyalty to the World Government (this oddly promotes pirates to gain infamy to become a Shichibukai) by making a pact with the Gorousei. Once they become renowned, the position may be offered to them, if no other pirate has accepted the position or proven to be more of an asset to the World Government. As expected, most members were already notorious pirates with high bounties, but even relatively unknowns can be admitted if they accomplish some feat to prove their strength, such as defeating someone with a world-wide known strength like when Blackbeard defeated Ace.

The Shichibukai is an organization of seven former pirates turned privateers in the service of the World Government.

[John D.]

While Sengoku in the eyes of the reader might have come across as a little to prone to tear his hair rather than take action himself in the war, I don't think the WG will view this war as a failure on Sengoku's part. His forces achieved the two main objectives they had; the death of Whitebeard and Ace, and while many of the Whitebeard Pirates and allies escaped, they had outside interferance such as Luffy and his gang, Blackbeard Pirates and lastly Red-Hair Pirates.

[PrototypeX2]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Oda's attempting to humanize Sengoku now? After all the shit he's done in the past. It kind of strikes me as bullshit. He had no complaints about covering up true history by killing innocent civilians in past conversations with Saul.

Let alone Marines are acting under Gorousei's commands, no one would let those civilians alive if they were about to bring down the only organization that will bring peace to world.Gorousei are a bunch of dirty bastards that made very nasty things in background and using The Marines to cover them up, but you cant blame Sengoku for that.Most of the Marine forces are thinking they are actually working to make world a better place.

Originally Posted by John D.

While Sengoku in the eyes of the reader might have come across as a little to prone to tear his hair rather than take action himself in the war, I don't think the WG will view this war as a failure on Sengoku's part. His forces achieved the two main objectives they had; the death of Whitebeard and Ace, and while many of the Whitebeard Pirates and allies escaped, they had outside interferance such as Luffy and his gang, Blackbeard Pirates and lastly Red-Hair Pirates.

I just dont understand why some people see this as a marine loss, they lost nothing but footmen yet they slayed world's most dangerous pirate crew.Even the half destroyed HQ was still there.Only loss was that Blackbeard getting his hand on a devil fruit.This is more like a %90 victory.

[Vampire]

Originally Posted by PrototypeX2

Let alone Marines are acting under Gorousei's commands, no one would let those civilians alive if they were about to bring down the only organization that will bring peace to world.Gorousei are a bunch of dirty bastards that made very nasty things in background and using The Marines to cover them up, but you cant blame Sengoku for that.Most of the Marine forces are thinking they are actually working to make world a better place.



I just dont understand why some people see this as a marine loss, they lost nothing but footmen yet they slayed world's most dangerous pirate crew.Even the half destroyed HQ was still there.Only loss was that Blackbeard getting his hand on a devil fruit.This is more like a %90 victory.

The war, yes it's their victory. Was it worth it? Ending the world's strongest pirate crew and making a big image to the public was the victory they achieved. Aside from the cost of their HQ and most of their fodder, they have even more problems on their back: WB's territories, new pirate age, Level 6 prisoners, Blackbeard, Monkey D. Luffy, revolutionaries, balance between the Grand line(Yonkou reduced to 3, Shichibukai being almost obsolete and the marines slowly recovering damages) and finally the public media that will question their authority. I'll say the marines have won the battle, but they're going to have a forecast of a huge shitstorm that will endanger the world than saving it.

[Kallen4life]

and, while the strongest man in the world did die ... :
1) he deliberately separated himself from his crew to face the marines and die alone
2) BB's crew finished him off, not marines
3) no corpses of Ace & WB

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

and, while the strongest man in the world did die ... :
1) he deliberately separated himself from his crew to face the marines and die alone
2) BB's crew finished him off, not marines
3) no corpses of Ace & WB

The end result is still the same, though. That's what ultimately counts.

[paradox13]

The end result is still the same, though. That's what ultimately counts.

Not really.

Arsenal getting completely annihlated by Barca, losing to 8-0, would NOT be the same as losing by 3-2, whilst giving them a good fight in the process.

The end result may still be a loss, but its COMPLETELY different for both the players and the fans.

Btw, is there a chapter next week?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Btw, is there a chapter next week?

Yes, then a skip.

[Rawrz]

There is nothing worth celebrating in this from a pirates point of view thou.They cant even be glad to alive since they have no Ace nor Whitebeard with them.

Hell, now that Whitebeard's gone, they better prepare themselves for an onslaught of all those Silver Medalists (Unless Shanks accepts them into his crew, he cant protect them forever)

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Not really.

Arsenal getting completely annihlated by Barca, losing to 8-0, would NOT be the same as losing by 3-2, whilst giving them a good fight in the process.

The end result may still be a loss, but its COMPLETELY different for both the players and the fans.

The truth of what really happened doesn't matter because the marines and the WG have taken measures to conceal it from the people. They skew the stories so that the people can have faith in them.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Rawrz

Hell, now that Whitebeard's gone, they better prepare themselves for an onslaught of all those Silver Medalists (Unless Shanks accepts them into his crew, he cant protect them forever)

Yes, I've been saying myself that the remaining Whitebeard pirates should join up with Shanks' crew (or at least, form an alliance with him). Now that they've lost their precious father in addition to two of the commanders, they'll need some major support in such times of crisis (and besides, Shanks already offered Marco to join his crew anyway, so it shouldn't hurt to take him up on that deal, methinks ).....

[Kallen4life]

what the people think doesn't really matter either tbh (they're .. well .. fodder too) .. but the reality remains - they got WB & Ace and lost 241 from ID

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by Kallen4life

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Shichibukai

I was asking where in the manga this was stated exactly, Or if Oda has said it elsewhere.

[hero147]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

^^Where is it stated that WG are the ones responsible for the appointment of shichibukai and not the marines?

I don't remember an explicit explanation about the appointment of the shichibukai. But Kuma has stated that the shichibukai had no obligation to cooperate with the marines back on sabaody archipelago, indicating that the marines and the shichibukai had equal standing within the world government.

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by Prestige

if Akainu would be positioned as fleet admiral then shit would really hit the fan.

Right, lol. If its a Marine that would clean the Seas of Pirates in a major way... its Akainu.

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

I was asking where in the manga this was stated exactly, Or if Oda has said it elsewhere.

The Shichibukai are a separate force from the Marines. They are 'allies' of the World Government.
And they only answer to the Gorousei, I believe somebody posted a magazine or something like that from the Official One Piece website or something... Where the Shichibukai were placed above the Marines and under the Gorousei. I can't remember who it was who posted it.

[marvelB]

By the way, since Oda's proven that he's fully capable of killing off major characters in "real time" (i.e. not in a flashback), I think this raises the possibility of him introducing a certain Devil Fruit power that some people considered to be too "morbid" into the series at some point: The blood fruit. Wouldn't that be a kickass power for a future silver medalist villain?

[Vampire]

Originally Posted by marvelB

By the way, since Oda's proven that he's fully capable of killing off major characters in "real time" (i.e. not in a flashback), I think this raises the possibility of him introducing a certain Devil Fruit power that some people considered to be too "morbid" into the series at some point: The blood fruit. Wouldn't that be a kickass power for a future silver medalist villain?

Would it be logia or paramecia?

[ellifeedn]

If you want to see examples of what a blood fruit might entail I recommend you read Deadman Wonderland.