[Manga] Naruto Chapter 539 Discussion

[Jehuty]

This chapter was crap with the detective theme. It was an awesome chapter until Kishi went the detective conan route.

Also, this reminds me... I would think that with all the time Sasuke spent with Orochimaru, he would've learned Edo Tensei.

Couldn't Sasuke just summon Itachi and clear any misunderstandings he had? Hell, Itachi could've even diminished some of Sasuke's hatred. And stuff.

[Alddous]

Edo Tensei ressurects someone in the state in which they died. That's why Nagato's hair is white, and his legs still don't work.

Also, at least we're seeing more of the other characters, and I believe if you all want to be more amused with the chapters, stop reading the spoilers, since it's no fun finding out a secret over 18 pages when you already knew it before reading page 1.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by DeDe

Sakura is more intelligent than Neji. Neji is not that smart. Only a 3 in intelligence/cunning. The same as Naruto. Sakura has a 4. More than Sasuke and on the same level as Temari and Shino.

Oh, the data-book. I don't pay much attention to that to be honest, and I've heard it isn't even meant to be taken that seriously in regards to the manga (I've read James say something to this effect, perhaps he or hunter can clarify). I prefer to base my arguments on what actually happens in the manga, and the character's battles.

With that said, I've never read Sakura referred to as a genius. To her credit, she was probably the best academically, however I'm discussing intelligence in the context of battle (I should have made this expicit earlier). In this context, Sakura doesn't seem "smarter" than either Naruto, Sasuke, or Neji --at least not to me. She had a nice fight with Sasori sure, however, I consider Neji's fight in part-I more impressive a far as battle intelligence is concerned, pound for pound of course, but thats just me.

Neji vs. Sakura. Sakura has to win. She can't lose. Kishi said he was going to make her more of a heroine. Neji is a good character for her to pwn.

Sakura would have to win because of her character yes, but I really hope this "Neji" isn't really Neji. A real fight between a Hyuuga as talented as Neji and Sakura would be horribly contrived at best, so I don't think he's a "good character" for her to beat. Lets be serious here, all "a Neji" would have to do is open up a divination and hit Sakura 32, 64, or 128 times in her vital areas instead of her chakra points, if he were really serious about it. The Hyuuga abilities also pose a pretty troublesome defense for Sakura's taijutsu. She doesn't seem to have the intellectual, or physical abilities (jutsu's, etc.) to be able to compensate for Neji's advantages... But then again, she is a main character, she does have that.

Originally Posted by Fran~

That's one thing i never liked about Naruto.Kishi wasted too many time in characters like Neji, we thought that he will be an awesome character, but in the end, it was Shikamaru the one who got the spot of Hero's best friend.

I always found that strange. To me it seemed that Naruto should have been closer with either Gaara or Neji because their struggles seem to parallel his more so than Shikamaru. And yes, Neji definitely had the potential to be built up as an awesome character, its a shame. I would have much rather seen him in action than those cloud ninjas a few weeks ago.

[james0246]

^Base your arguments on what is shown in the manga, the databooks are mostly pointless as tools for comparisons.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Alddous

Edo Tensei ressurects someone in the state in which they died. That's why Nagato's hair is white, and his legs still don't work.

And which is why Deidara was resurrected as a bunch of meat chunks...

Wait, what?







Well, this chapter was, well...OK, it was only half-cool, half-WTF...

For starters, I had speculated two chapters back that Madara's half-assed plan was to use a temporary or small-scale mini-Moon's Eye Plan, and I'm surprised that I guessed right in that it would be used to depreciate the Alliance's morale...But I didn't think that the morale would be killed off by sabotage, and even more surprising, I didn't think that whatever Madara's doing had the power to selectively cast control on any one individual to do the inside damage...That's pretty dangerous, even for something extremely small in scale, since not only is the Alliance completely clueless on who the assaulting individual is, but the assaulting individual is an Alliance member himself, namely Neji Hyuuga, a Byakugan user...Joe Schmoe Ninja with nothing but a fistful of shuriken would have done, but using Neji as the scapegoat makes it that much more difficult to deal with, when they figure out it's him and they make contact...As if they already haven't had time dealing with zombie friends, anyway...

But whatever...On the other hand, it's like Kishi just said "Well, I can't develop Neji as a good guy, let's just have been be used like a bad guy!" Oh, jeez...

Of course, I might be able to forgive and forget if it ends up that this "Neji" might be an imposter clone of Neji like some people here are speculating...

After all that, though, the very short scene with Itachi and Nagato was just incredibly badass, because I think this is the first time we've ever really seen them interact with each other, at least on a personal basis, on top of the first time we've seen them at all since they were first resurrected as zombies (Surely their disappearance between then prompted someone to file a missing person's report)...We always think of Itachi and Nagato as having their own respective powerful dojutsu as stand-alone powerhouses, but when Itachi suggested the fact that they could work together and collaborate the powers of the Mangyeko Sharingan and the Rinnegan, I had only one thought: Holy shit!

Seriously! I wanna see Itachi and Nagato fight together at least once, doesn't matter if they're being used as Kabuto's puppets or in an attempt to betray Kabuto/Madara...I wanna see this happen, because I know such a thing would be epic...

But after thinking about the possibilities that Kishi could do to raise the HSQ with a Itachi/Nagato pairing (And please, more bromance, not the ho-yay that made me take Torune/Fu unseriously; Yes, I'm making "unserious" a real word), the other thing that really caught my attention had to have been Sakura's hairstyle...Like, really really? She looks so cute! Makes me forgive all the social stupidity that may harbor underneath that tied-up hair of her's...

Oh, how lovely I can feel when Naruto isn't talking about erasing one's hate...So much so, I almost forgot exactly that is what the beginning of the chapter was about...

[AnbuItachi]

Doubt itachi put a genjutsu on neji to kill the jounin medical ninjas when the two of them can easily go in there and slaughter everyone.

[thermopyle]

For a second there, I almost thought he was going to do something interesting with the Byakugan/Neji, after the Rinnegan and Sharingan shots. Then I remembered who was writing this.

[DeDe]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Oh, the data-book. I don't pay much attention to that to be honest, and I've heard it isn't even meant to be taken that seriously in regards to the manga (I've read James say something to this effect, perhaps he or hunter can clarify). I prefer to base my arguments on what actually happens in the manga, and the character's battles.

With that said, I've never read Sakura referred to as a genius. To her credit, she was probably the best academically, however I'm discussing intelligence in the context of battle (I should have made this expicit earlier). In this context, Sakura doesn't seem "smarter" than either Naruto, Sasuke, or Neji --at least not to me. She had a nice fight with Sasori sure, however, I consider Neji's fight in part-I more impressive a far as battle intelligence is concerned, pound for pound of course, but thats just me.

They are a tool. No, they are not an end all. But to me a useful tool since our opinions on what we see in the manga are going to be subjective. Look at those panels during the Sasori/Deidara fight when Sai all of a sudden had the speed of Minato on crack. Things can get a little cloudy in the manga some times. So think of them as a small part of a puzzle.

Based on him being a genius(for his talent) fans would of probably thought Neji was in the same class of intelligence as Sakura, Shino, and Temari. So the databook did clear that up. Sakura showed in the Sasori fight she is very capable using her brain in battle. Probably second among the girls to Temari as a strategist. Neji has also shown some ability, but I would never call him a tactician. Sakura should have the advantage in any tactical fight over Neji.

I always found that strange. To me it seemed that Naruto should have been closer with either Gaara or Neji because their struggles seem to parallel his more so than Shikamaru.

I think Kishi wanted Naruto to have a normal friend. Someone without a ton of issues he can talk to. The fact that he is a calm genius also balances out Naruto's one weakness. His brain. Yin and Yang.

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

And if it turns out Neji is a zetsu double, then the alliance has a real mess on their hands...unless out of the thousands of ninja the zetsus fought, Neji was the only one cloned. Of course, it would be no problem for Naruto to sniff out the doubles, since he can feel negative vibes and all.

The Zetsu clone scenario would have been interesting if the Alliance was winning big. But right now they are tied in the body count. Each lost half their forces on the first day. If 10,000 of the 40,000 Alliance spawned clones, they would be finished. So it has to be only a small number.

I think Madara's plan was to have a number of sleeper Zetsu clones peel off their targets during the night and cause havok. Neji should not be the only clone. The Alliance will have to adjust once more.

And yeah, I'm going with the clone angle since even under genjutsu, Kishi might not want any of his Konoha 12 killing living ninja. Neji would have blood on his hands. So it being a clone seems to fit Kishi more. This way Neji is blameless.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by thermopyle

For a second there, I almost thought he was going to do something interesting with the Byakugan/Neji, after the Rinnegan and Sharingan shots. Then I remembered who was writing this.

Well, not yet, anyway...After all, you only get less than two pages worth of Itachi and Nagato talking, anyway...This is all a set-up for later fights, though the real question begs to ask whether anything will actually happen...As in, will Neji do something awesome with the Byakugan, or will it just be diffused lamely...

[Ulquiorra]

If Neji is a Zetsu clone than Sakura vs. Neji should not be debated as if Neji is the real Neji. The clones are total duplicates and have the same chakra. But they are said to weaker and can't be used for battle.
...
The fake Neji is getting the jump on ninja and stabbing them. He is acting like a...ninja. But he would have problems in an actual fight.

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

Well, not yet, anyway...After all, you only get less than two pages worth of Itachi and Nagato talking, anyway...This is all a set-up for later fights, though the real question begs to ask whether anything will actually happen...As in, will Neji do something awesome with the Byakugan, or will it just be diffused lamely...

Diffused lamely. How many years now since Byakugan has been relevant? Kishimoto is probably just trying to use Neji in some role since he didn't fight his father. Neji is probably around the 17th-20th most popular character in Naruto. So it makes sense to do something with him. Even if it's only for a couple of chapters and means nothing.

[ronin myael]

i have mixed emotions and opinions about this chapter. at one point i thought it was kinda cool and by the time it ended i was like "wtf are you thinking kishi?!". it was predictable (at least for me), i knew it was neji all along, otherwise why would he be in the chapter at all? he has been nothing but some random ninja thrown into this war.

he used to be one of my favorite characters but since shipuuden he just slowly "vanished", as if he never existed at all. it's just disappointing that kishi had built him up in part 1, along with byakugan, only to drop him in shipuuden. and i do consider neji to be a more than capable ninja, sakura is not smarter than him or more talented. he is considered to be a tensai or genius in case everyone forgot. he was the number one rookie of his class. he should never be taken too lightly. the reason that we do is because of what kishi did to him over the years. to me, neji is one good example of a good character wasted by kishi.

anyways, about the chapter...i thought the naruto and kyuubi exchange was interesting. it showed naruto's "growth" from being a weak little kid scared of the big bad fox to someone strong enough to tame him like a puppy. i also kinda liked the itachi and nagato conversation, although i thought it was kinda short. i would've wanted to read more. i guess kishi only wanted to give us a hint of what madara plans to do with the rinnegan and mangekyou sharingan. but the rest of the chapter pretty much sucked for me. the twist at the end wasn't much of a twist to me. i kinda knew what will happen. my one mistake is thinking that the guy in the shadows was following neji, suspecting that he's the culprit, not sakura's admirer! lol

[Ulquiorra]

Did anyone find the stuff at the beginning with the Naruto and the Kyuubi even remotely interesting?

Originally Posted by ronin myael

sakura is not smarter than him or more talented.

She is. And I don't care much for Sakura. She is suppose to surpass Tsunade which will make her a hell of a lot better than Neji. Team 7 are the new Sannin. Whether Kishimoto ever bothers to fulfill that is anyone's guess. I am not holding my breathe given her idea of solving everything is to leave things in the hands of a psychopath she still has a crush on.

Originally Posted by ronin myael

he is considered to be a tensai or genius in case everyone forgot. he was the number one rookie of his class. he should never be taken too lightly. the reason that we do is because of what kishi did to him over the years. to me, neji is one good example of a good character wasted by kishi.

Ino was the top female rookie in her class. Naruto(due to stupidity) and Shikamaru(due to laziness) were the worst. Things change. Neji is a fictional product of Kishimoto's mind. He does not exist independently of him. So if he is a nobody, then it is by Kishi's choice. I think once Neji was passed by Naruto and Sasuke and solved his Hyuuga family problems, there was no point to him. That's why he reminds me so much of Tien. He wasn't wasted. He fulfilled his role.

[octaviahawk]

"Don't worry Kyuubi-kun, I'll erase all your hate too!"

next panel

*dah dah dah, creepy murder mystery music*
Who murdered the jonin medic?
Was it miss Peacock?
or
NEJI-KUUUUUUUN?

Gosh Darn it, STOP TROLLING MY MANGA!!!
*Cries*

Although Pain and Itachi holding hands was pretty cute...ah, gay lil' zombie ninja.

[james0246]

Did anyone find the stuff at the beginning with the Naruto and the Kyuubi even remotely interesting?

Don't know if there is much to say. This could be the turning point in their relationship, but it all depends on which way Kishimoto wishes to go with his story.

That being said, it would be interesting if the Kyuubi and Hachibi are captured, but do to their "domestication" (and the "domestication" of the other Bijuu by the hosts), the Jyuubi is drastically altered, resulting in something presently unknown...but that would be to drastic a shift in story, so I doubt it is a viable option...

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by DeDe

They are a tool. No, they are not an end all. But to me a useful tool since our opinions on what we see in the manga are going to be subjective.

They are pretty useless as a tool for a comparison based discussion such as this, because they aren’t really that consistent with the manga. Using this “databook”, we can also infer that Kakashi (before gaining his MS) could have defeated Sarutobi in battle; because he had a slight lead on him in the stats (specifically 34.5 vs 34, respectively). However, by basing our reasoning on actual events in the manga, we know that Kakashi wasn’t even in Sarutobi's class back then. Even with his MS, Sarutobi may have still had the edge over him.

Neji has also shown some ability, but I would never call him a tactician.

…And yet he’s shown plenty of tact and intelligence in his fights (as few as they may be). Sakura only started to shine in her “tactics” in part II against Sasori, yet Neji was portrayed as a genius fighter at his introduction, and throughout the time he was still on camera. In his squad, he is clearly portrayed as the most level-headed & tactful, and he was the one to break Lee and Ten free of Kisame’s water-prison quite easily –he bided his time and waited for the right moment. The “data-book” you’re using for your argument also portrays him as more calm and tolerant than Sakura in the personality chart; two important qualities a tactician would possess, but I’m sure you missed that part.

Sakura should have the advantage in any tactical fight over Neji.

…Except the fact that this is a baseless claim. You’ve yet to provide any reasoning behind this based on actual events in the manga or provide a contradiction to any of my reasons why she would face near certain death.

[AnbuItachi]

It would be retarded if Itachi and Pain are used as stepping stones for Naruto with his new power.

[Knjaz]

Well, for me the best part of this chapter was Nine-tails expression, when Naruto openly stated that he's gonna brainwash him too ^^

[Casshern]

Naruto started working his Jesus magic on the Kyubi. The being of pure malevolence will become a fuzzy ball of love.

Sakura vs Neji, not really interested.

Itachi/Pain vs Naruto/B yes please!
I think B's had too many good fights already though tbh, so I'd rather see him lose this one. I'd also like to see Sasuke meeting Itachi before Itachi bites the dust again, but not really sure if that would bring anything to the story other than fanservice.

[Haak]

I actually liked this chapter. I honestly didn't see the Neji-control coming and it's good to see Kishimoto trying to bring as many realistic factors into this war as possible. And it would be great to see Sakura kick Neji's ass.

The beggining was ridiculous though. I seriously loled at Kyuubi's face when Naruto said he would fix him.

[Kallen4life]

if we remember the stuff from part 1 and try to follow logic then yeah, Neji should be able to at least have a good chance vs Sakura .. as it stands, he barely exists nowadays, so I'm not betting my money on him

Edo Tensei ressurects someone in the state in which they died. That's why Nagato's hair is white, and his legs still don't work.

in that case Itachi should still be disease-ridden and blind - that's how he died .. either ET removes that or the regen heals it .. not sure about Nagato's legs, maybe it takes longer