(L) C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control (w/Kenji Nakamura)

[Used Can]

So... do you think they will fix all these ugly CGs and mediocre designs for the DVDs/BDs?

Anyway, the episode was okay. I didn't understand Sennoza's method though. He asked his opponents to forfeit the duel, and in order to do so, they have to pay half of their funds, no? So, even if he reimburses them, shouldn't their futures have already changed negatively by then? In that regard, Mikuni's methods seem a lot better for both parties.

As for the battle skip, I was very disappointed. Whilst I'll agree the focus of the story aren't the battles themselves, this one was a major battle. Kimimaro wasn't fighting a mere runt, he was fighting a top dog. In fact, it isn't simply the fact they skipped the battle, but Kimimaro winning it sounds like a huge asspull, and the explanation we get was that Sennoza didn't see two consecutive mezzoflations coming. I know mezzo is a strong attack, but that still sounds like a very unsatisfactory explanation considering the little bit we saw of the battle involved Msyu getting the living hell beaten out of herself. So, yeah... I think this development was extremely lame.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Used Can

So... do you think they will fix all these ugly CGs and mediocre designs for the DVDs/BDs?

Anyway, the episode was okay. I didn't understand Sennoza's method though. He asked his opponents to forfeit the duel, and in order to do so, they have to pay half of their funds, no? So, even if he reimburses them, shouldn't their futures have already changed negatively by then? In that regard, Mikuni's methods seem a lot better for both parties.

As for the battle skip, I was very disappointed. Whilst I'll agree the focus of the story aren't the battles themselves, this one was a major battle. Kimimaro wasn't fighting a mere runt, he was fighting a top dog. In fact, it isn't simply the fact they skipped the battle, but Kimimaro winning it sounds like a huge asspull, and the explanation we get was that Sennoza didn't see two consecutive mezzoflations coming. I know mezzo is a strong attack, but that still sounds like a very unsatisfactory explanation considering the little bit we saw of the battle involved Msyu getting the living hell beaten out of herself. So, yeah... I think this development was extremely lame.

No, it would not be a forfeiture of the duel, the duel would never happen between the 2 parties. A forfeiture by definition means the concession of a contest to the other party which indicates a loss. In the case of what Sennoza was proposing, it would be the same as a rainout of a baseball game between 2 teams with no make-up date.

Basically, he was asking for the duel to never occur and they would both get "bye weeks" but whoever were to initiate that event would have to pay half their fortune

[Pellissier]

The way the battle ended was a pity, because this was an excellent episode, plenty of deep and pertinent analysis (I especially like when they show true, down to erth effects of losses on the real world). Certainly the best episode so far together with that of the teacher.

Unfortunately the fights do appear to be the weakest point of this anime. At first it was because their mechanisms were quite difficult to understand, they still are actually but once that we started to get a bit accustomed there were some highly unlikely battles with cheap conclusions in the last seconds. Now we've come to a point where a battle is a hurdle for the plot (seeing the difference in assets and experience between Kimimaro and Sennoza), so it has to be skipped bringing to an aftermath which defies any logic. It's not that Kimimaro's victory was entirely impossible at that point, but not even giving a hint of his tactics while Msyu was almost gone... and then "heh, but he won". Messy to say the least.

[Anh_Minh]

It's been like that from the start, though. He's had an overpowered mezzoflation since the start. The only time he was in trouble was when he didn't have enough money to trigger one.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Streetor

Basically, he was asking for the duel to never occur and they would both get "bye weeks" but whoever were to initiate that event would have to pay half their fortune

I see... then I really don't understand why Kimimaro didn't accept Sennoza's proposal, though. All the philosophical blabber aside, taking into account Kimimaro's intentions, skipping the duel was in his best interests, no? No fights, no effects in the real world and to boot, Sennoza was even going to reimburse him.

I'd understand distrusting him at first, but eventually he got to realise Sennoza was legit. So, I really don't understand why he decided to fight simply because of Mikuni's speech.

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's been like that from the start, though. He's had an overpowered mezzoflation since the start. The only time he was in trouble was when he didn't have enough money to trigger one.

Yeah but this time he was facing a hardcore pro, much stronger than any opponent he's beaten before. This probably further increases the disappointment. Plus the fact, as you mention, that we haven't still seen a satisfying battle yet. And probably won't.

Originally Posted by Used Can

I'd understand distrusting him at first, but eventually he got to realise Sennoza was legit. So, I really don't understand why he decided to fight simply because of Mikuni's speech.

I don't think he was persuaded by Mikuni. For how I see it, Kimimaro simply has his own reasonings and his own way to do things. He may listen to the others and ponder, but the final decision is his own, exclusively.

[Used Can]

I don't know, before he talked to Mikuni he seemed to have been considering Sennoza's proposal, but after he spoke with Mikuni, he made up his mind.

Anyway, even though it was Kimimaro's decision. I really don't see why he wouldn't accept Sennoza's proposal. Kimimaro said he doesn't want to win, but he doesn't want to lose either. So, I think accepting Sennoza's proposal and skipping the duel would have made sense.

[Eater of All]

I've been arguing a while back that C isn't just pokemon battles, but as others said, the problem here is that it feels like a total cop-out.

Originally Posted by Used Can

I don't know, before he talked to Mikuni he seemed to have been considering Sennoza's proposal, but after he spoke with Mikuni, he made up his mind.

Anyway, even though it was Kimimaro's decision. I really don't see why he wouldn't accept Sennoza's proposal. Kimimaro said he doesn't want to win, but he doesn't want to lose either. So, I think accepting Sennoza's proposal and skipping the duel would have made sense.

Accepting Sennoza's proposal probably makes the most practical sense yeah. As for why Kimimaro didn't accept it, I looked back to the beginning of the battle, and there Kimimaro recalls Mikuni's words of "fight, and win". I guess Kimimaro is influenced by Mikuni and feels that Sennoza's method is just running away. One of those ideological things, I suppose.

Which is weird, because I don't see how Sennoza's method is sacrificing the present. Nor how Mikuni's method is sacrificing the future for that matter.

[frodonk]

how can they call this "yugioh with credit cards" if they don't even show the fights?

and the last episode's transition was indeed jarring, and I had the feeling that they are trying to put out much of the plot out of the way to make way for something in the latter episodes, I do hope its worth it though

[Deconstructor]

Yes, the fight this week certainly was... absent. Still, I enjoy how the animators are not shying away from spurting blood all over the place. Msyu was practically drowning in a fountain of her own blood, and that's not even considering her arm got torn off. Someone (or some people) at Noitamina really enjoys this type of asset abuse. Maybe they're a sadomasoscientisto, like the one from Deadman Wonderland?

As for the story, the conflicting philosophies of short-term versus long-term provides for some intense drama. There are people who seek transformative change within society... and those who are too poor to even dream of such ideals. They can only get by with the little resources they have now. Present versus future, eh? I'm not sure where I stand on this myself. But I'm glad Kimimaro took a side. As a rising Entrepreneur, he can't be worrying about his own ideals. You have to be confident that your way is the just way, before you enter business. Never look back at the path you've chosen; have no regrets to the way your life affects the lives of others.

Episode 6 Rating: 9/10

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Eater of All

Which is weird, because I don't see how Sennoza's method is sacrificing the present. Nor how Mikuni's method is sacrificing the future for that matter.

Practically, I indeed have trouble seeing where they differ, since they're both stuck using Midas money in large quantities for the sake of their ideals.

For how Mikuni's sacrificing the future - it's obvious. He's supporting everything with Midas money. Sooner or later, the bill for that will come due.

Sennouza... I'm not sure. His discourse is that, even though things may look bleak right now, we should still sacrifice for the sake of the future. But his actions?

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

I can't really think an example IRL where a major corporation goes bankrupt and the CEO tries to get revenge from the winning corporation. Even Kimimaro hasn't even for a second thought of finding out and fighting he who bankrupted his father. In the end business never fight at a personal level, it is like an sports game, there can be no winners without losers and is good sport etiquette at the end of the match to shake the hand of the other team.

Maybe, but I see these fights as being a bit more personal than just a "corporate struggle" <_<. And it's a bit more serious of a matter than a sports game IMO - at least in sports games people doesn't usually get their lives ruined if they lose .

[maplehurry]

^In the case of Kimi's father, he was more angry at his own father at first

So if you or your family's life is ruined, it's usually just your fault, or maybe FD's (since you can't really quit).

As for RL example, there are example of getting revenge or something similar. Remember when Microsoft was sued for monopoly and all the hate on walmart ?

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Streetor

Personally I think as Kimimaro wins more and gets more money, MSYU's boobs should grow accordingly

... then for the sake of realism (OMGWTFBBQS!) her muscles should also get bigger until she can rip another ass into an EVA-01 with her own hands

Originally Posted by maplehurry

As for RL example, there are example of getting revenge or something similar. Remember when Microsoft was sued for monopoly and all the hate on walmart ?

Those weren't persons getting revenge from a CEO or a corporation, more like a small loss at a deal (in the end microsoft received little damage from said lawsuit and walmarts continues to be as profitable as ever).

[orion]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

As for RL example, there are example of getting revenge or something similar. Remember when Microsoft was sued for monopoly and all the hate on walmart ?

Not all of us hate Walmart. They have cheap stuff, accept manufacturer's copons, open 24 hours and only closed on Xmas eve. Convenience is wonderful.

If you hate Walmart then you'll hate Woodman's and the other similar 24 hour stores nowadays.

And that monopoly suit only made Microsoft products more expensive. No bundling of Microsoft products on your computer. Gotta pay separately for everything useful now.

[Triple_R]

Loved this episode, for much the same reasons as Pell laid out nicely.

My sense is that C is great when it delves into philosophical conflicts and showcasing the impacts that the Financial District has on the real world... but that its action scenes (i.e. "deals") could be much better.

This one was actually impressively intense and gripping. But it's a bit wasted when you don't show the protagonist's big comeback.

Still, that's my only critique of Episode 6.

9/10 for me.

[sapphire-pyro]

More thoughts on the episode minus most of the "KYAA"s and "SQUEE"s~

Originally Posted by frodonk

how can they call this "yugioh with credit cards" if they don't even show the fights?

They can't. ;D
Because [C] is NOT "yugioh with credit cards" xD Yay!

Originally Posted by Used Can

I really don't see why he wouldn't accept Sennoza's proposal. Kimimaro said he doesn't want to win, but he doesn't want to lose either. So, I think accepting Sennoza's proposal and skipping the duel would have made sense.

It's not that clear to me either, but I believe it has something to do with Sennoza valuing the future more than the present. And since what's important to Kimimaro is not to lose the ones close to him right now, and normal people have are struggling already in current times, what happens in the future is lesser priority to him. So Mikuni's thinking got to him, since Mikuni's more concerned on how people will do at present time.

Something like that. That's just my idea for now, but it's not yet that clear to me either.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Solace

The teacher and the pretty boy lost so much but what can they really do? They played the game and got burned. It's like blaming the other guys at the poker table for the dealer giving you bad cards. Besides, he's angsting enough as it is....I'm not sure I really want to see episodes of him dwelling on the obvious issue of blame (that someone lost and he feels guilty about it).

First, I never said anything about revenge; it's the attitude what's not believable.

And not, it's not like losing at poker, not even like losing a ton of money over a bad business deal. Here you lose even lives instantly as a direct consequence of your loses, and it's not like the system doesn't give you any options: Kimimaro could have accepted that guy's offer to avoid the fight, but he didn't. This was his decision, and has nothing to do with the system, and he took that decision fully knowing this could (and would) affect the lives of many people.

I think the correct way to handle this would be to show both, people who handle their loses nicely, and people who don't. The problem is the show only shows the former, and so comes across as cheap in the plausibility department.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

First, I never said anything about revenge; it's the attitude what's not believable.

Real entrepreneurs have no time for grief. Do you really think after each and every deal they should go thru denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. They would be exhausted before their next deal has even started.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Real entrepreneurs have no time for grief.

It's not a valid argument to say these guys shouldn't feel any grief about losing (which means losing family members or even worse) because real entrepreneurs wouldn't. C's "entres" have little to do with real entrepreneurs.