[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[HasuMasu]

9 yrs 7 mo. ago - Itachi Joins Akatsuki,
9 yrs 7 mo. ago - Oro attempts to take over Itachi, leaves Akatsuki
7 yrs 7 mo. ago - Uchiha Clan Massacre

didn't i already address this?

quoting myself:

can't be, itachi joined the akatsuki AFTER the massacre

if i'm wrong could someone just point it out already? it's getting confusing

[ColdHearted]

Quote:
9 yrs 7 mo. ago - Itachi Joins Akatsuki,
9 yrs 7 mo. ago - Oro attempts to take over Itachi, leaves Akatsuki
7 yrs 7 mo. ago - Uchiha Clan Massacre
didn't i already address this?

quoting myself:

Quote:
can't be, itachi joined the akatsuki AFTER the massacre
if i'm wrong could someone just point it out already? it's getting confusing

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some of the chapters clearly stated that after Itachi massacre the clan he joined the Akatsuki.

[Fran~]

It's funny, because Madara said to Sasuke that he helped Itachi in the massacre. Perhaps that's lead to the confusion. But Itachi joined Akatsuki AFTER the massacre.

Akatsuki is a mistery to me. Because Itachi should know that Tobi was Madara and Madara should know that Itachi was loyal to Konoha.

[KidSoap]

i don't think itachi should of known at all who tobi was when they met. Tobi most likely claimed he was madara.


Itachi had no connection to the Akatsuki until he left the village.


Tobi was just caught by Itachi as he was about to wipe out the uchica clan, knowing tobi who is either Madara or Izuna it's not all that suprising that he is snooping around there


Itachi figured he was after konoha so Itachi made a deal with him. The Uchica all wiped out for konoha's safety.


The thing that does not make sence to me

is that Tobi had all this knowledge about someone like Sasuke's Father and the fact that he knew the uchia were about to do a coup d'état yet he still went to konoha on the day of the massacre. Madara had to come back to either help the uchia with the coup.. which cant be the case seeing as he helped itachi murder them all

or it was to murder them all to begin with. But then that wouldn't make sence either considering this Madara we are talking about. He wouldn't need anyones help taking out the uchia clan.


so was it all luck that madara showed up that same day. Or did he have a different agenda.




back to all of this information Tobi has. How? how did he know of Itachi's situation. How did he know who authoroized it. How did he know about Naruto's Birth location. Perhaps Zetsu has been in Konoha for over many years lying dormant giving information to Tobi . . it wouldn't suprise me. Now that would make Zetsu insanely overpowered but unless Tobi has a known double agent for him i don't know how he knows all that


Damn im rambling my theory's again. I know this has nothing to do with Tobi but i wanna get it of my chest. i hope that Kishi hasn't forgoton is that sakura was original very very good at genjutsu. It was mentioned briefly in there part 1 bells test and part 2 bells test. Yet we have not seen that much genjutsu at all from sakura apart from that time she and shikamaru were the only ones that did not fall asleep to kabuto


Crazy Chakra control/Superstrenght/Medic/Genjutsu. Sakura would be hokage worthy in my opinion. Sakura should form a bond with kurenai or something have Sakura save her kid... then have Kurenai teach Sakura genjutsu. I don't know it would make things interesting with her.


Rock Lee the star of the chunin Exam. What heppend to this guy? i know he had surgery but he should be 100% by now and his never stop training attitude he should be jonin now for sure. And i dont care what anyone says Rock Lee should definatly be the fastest ninja in the naruto world at the moment. I know the chunin exam was old but he severely outclassed everyone in speed. Sasuke copied his speed during the exam but couldn't maintain it. So what heppend to his speed. Imagine Rock Lee without his weights.. insane.




Neji Imma go to bed so imma wrap this up now. This guy is a genious no doubt but kishi u been teasing us with Neji v.s Sasuke from episode 27-28 re-watch it also the time where neji asks sasukes name these are all hints to that matchup(im rewatching naruto and i rememebr seeing it around here) that scene where sasuke turns cursed seal first time and neji commentates "so this is the uchica's power" with that sick music that we never hear again lol. But really now this battle is something i would love to see. Obviously the current Sasuke would dystroy Neji due to MS and all that. Neji would need some sort of powerup hopefully with the byagugon. I hope this battle still heppens


peace

[ColdHearted]

It's funny, because Madara said to Sasuke that he helped Itachi in the massacre. Perhaps that's lead to the confusion. But Itachi joined Akatsuki AFTER the massacre.

On part of Sasuke, yes it is. But as I recall it the only reason why Itachi consulted Madara just to say never lay his hand to his brother on behalf of the massacre that his going to commit.

Akatsuki is a mistery to me. Because Itachi should know that Tobi was Madara and Madara should know that Itachi was loyal to Konoha.

I think Itachi already know that Tobi is Madara or Madara is the founder Akatsuki. And Itachi joined the Akatsuki so he can able to monitor the actions of every members of it, that might have a possibility that they will need to take Sasuke be part of it.

[HasuMasu]

or it was to murder them all to begin with. But then that wouldn't make sence either considering this Madara we are talking about. He wouldn't need anyones help taking out the uchia clan.

the 2nd tsuchikage said something similar, madara's answer was:

"The injuries I sustained in my battle with Hashirama were too great, I am merely a shell of my former self..."

^well, there's your answer

back to all of this information Tobi has. How? how did he know of Itachi's situation. How did he know who authoroized it. How did he know about Naruto's Birth location. Perhaps Zetsu has been in Konoha for over many years lying dormant giving information to Tobi . . it wouldn't suprise me. Now that would make Zetsu insanely overpowered but unless Tobi has a known double agent for him i don't know how he knows all that

madara knows all that simply because he's madara, the real deal, a guy who sneaks around in the shadows, a ninja

being able to teleport around anywhere and use genjutsu for interrogation are useful too

then there's zetsu, who is a mystery

Damn im rambling my theory's again. I know this has nothing to do with Tobi but i wanna get it of my chest. i hope that Kishi hasn't forgoton is that sakura was original very very good at genjutsu. It was mentioned briefly in there part 1 bells test and part 2 bells test. Yet we have not seen that much genjutsu at all from sakura apart from that time she and shikamaru were the only ones that did not fall asleep to kabuto

sakura doesn't know genjutsu, she's good at not falling for genjutsu

Rock Lee the star of the chunin Exam. What heppend to this guy? i know he had surgery but he should be 100% by now and his never stop training attitude he should be jonin now for sure. And i dont care what anyone says Rock Lee should definatly be the fastest ninja in the naruto world at the moment. I know the chunin exam was old but he severely outclassed everyone in speed. Sasuke copied his speed during the exam but couldn't maintain it. So what heppend to his speed. Imagine Rock Lee without his weights.. insane.

fastest in the world? hardly, naruto and the raikage are the fastest by a mile

also, just because he's strong doesn't mean he'll have a high rank, naruto's a genin, but he outclassed everyone in his village, even the hokage

Neji Imma go to bed so imma wrap this up now. This guy is a genious no doubt but kishi u been teasing us with Neji v.s Sasuke from episode 27-28 re-watch it also the time where neji asks sasukes name these are all hints to that matchup(im rewatching naruto and i rememebr seeing it around here) that scene where sasuke turns cursed seal first time and neji commentates "so this is the uchica's power" with that sick music that we never hear again lol. But really now this battle is something i would love to see. Obviously the current Sasuke would dystroy Neji due to MS and all that. Neji would need some sort of powerup hopefully with the byagugon. I hope this battle still heppens

neji was shafted, like...a long time ago, so not going to happen i'm afraid

any more questions class?

[KidSoap]

Originally Posted by Da_Box

the 2nd tsuchikage said something similar, madara's answer was:

"The injuries I sustained in my battle with Hashirama were too great, I am merely a shell of my former self..."

^well, there's your answer



madara knows all that simply because he's madara, the real deal, a guy who sneaks around in the shadows, a ninja

being able to teleport around anywhere and use genjutsu for interrogation are useful too

then there's zetsu, who is a mystery



sakura doesn't know genjutsu, she's good at not falling for genjutsu



fastest in the world? hardly, naruto and the raikage are the fastest by a mile

also, just because he's strong doesn't mean he'll have a high rank, naruto's a genin, but he outclassed everyone in his village, even the hokage



neji was shafted, like...a long time ago, so not going to happen i'm afraid

any more questions class?

Good point i forgot about Madara's injury.


As for Naruto outclassing everyone as a genin thats only because he is the main character. Rock lee was no doubt the second strongest fighter at the chunin exam easily. and yeah i know the raikage claims to be the fastest but rock lee should be. I guess the lack of rock lee since the chunin exam hurts his credibility.


And Rock lee should of gotten a higher rank because Neji did(And there both secondary characters) . Naruto was a different case then Lee so i don't see why lee wouldn't be jonin


i guess i didn't really explain it well but i meant with sakura learning genjutsu under kurenai she would be hokage level. with Sakura already being good at defending genjutsu on top of a potential mid level kurenai level genjutsu.. not bad.



As for Neji. Have faith in Kishi man. I'm sure he will do something Sasuke Neji related no doubt after the war

[james0246]

Originally Posted by KidSoap

And Rock lee should of gotten a higher rank because Neji did(And there both secondary characters) . Naruto was a different case then Lee so i don't see why lee wouldn't be jonin

Lee will never be a Jounin due to the simple fact that one fo the requirements for being a Jounin is the ability to use elemental ninjutsu, and to be able to use 2 elements. (It's still unclear what his elements are.)

---

That being said, I forgot to bring this up 20+ chapters ago, but there is further evidence that Madara is not Obito, or at least that he does not use Obito's eye. Specifically, during the encounter between Kakashi and Sasuke, Itachi's trap did not react to Kakashi's "borrowed" eye. Now, while it is true that Itachi's trap may be a simple one-time deal (though it makes you wonder why Madara/Tobi has never revealed himself since if Itachi's trap is not repeatable), but if it is not then it should have reacted to Kakashi the same as it reacted to Madara/Tobi if both characters have Obito's eyes (specifically, Itachi's trap was designed to activate when it "saw" Madara's eye design; now if Madara's eye came from Obito, then it stands to reason the same trap would have worked on Kakashi's eye, but since it did not we can only conclude that either Madara's eye is not Obito's or Itachi's trap would never work again (which begs the question as to why Madara/Tobi never attempted to reveal himself later).

[Sides]

Tobi is: sasuke from an alternative future, who travel back in time to.. to.. enslave a world, so he can conquer his own world with help of the new army.

[Cael]

Originally Posted by Da_Box

didn't i already address this?

quoting myself:



if i'm wrong could someone just point it out already? it's getting confusing

It seems I keep making the same mistake. I can't find a hard source for how old Sasuke is when he joins the Academy or how old he is at the time of the massacre. Most people claim his age ranges from 8 to 10. But it doesn't fit with the facts we have been given.

Take for instance ch 238 pg 17: As Naruto goes off to train with Jiraiya, Akatsuki mentions that it was 7 years ago when Orochimaru left the organization. That was said a little less than one year after the start of the series.

Now Sasuke is supposed to be 12 years old at the start of the series. So lets work this out, if Oro left Akatsuki 7 years before Sasuke joined him, then Sasuke would have to be 6 at the time of the massacre. Which means he would have been 6 when he joined the Academy. Which means it took him 6 years to graduate? Hmm, somethings off. But the manga shows Itachi with a crossed out head protector when he cuts off Oros hand (ch 345 pg 11). So Itachi left the village for good when he was paired with Orochimaru. So the massacre, Itachi joining and Orochimaru leaving happen in that order and in a very short time... 6 years 10 months before the start of the series.

If you try and make things work around Sasuke, then the Itachi/Orochimaru thing will never line up, in fact it will be backwards like I have made it before. So we have to accept that Sasuke joins the Academy at 6, which is the usual age for kids starting school. Even though Kakashi and Itachi took only 1 year to finish, Sasukes mom claims that things have changed since then(ch 221 pg 10).

Not to get too off-topic, here is my take on Tobi:
I was going to post a theory about Tobi being a Zetsu clone, but it requires too much speculation. Right now I feel like Tobi is really Madara.
-Madara stole living tissue from the 1st Hokage.
-Madara used izanagi during his fight.
-He combined with living Senju tissue (white Zetsu)
-Since his left eye socket closed from izanagi, he has to replace part of his face.
-The part that got replaced is the part that is blacked out when his mask is removed.
-That allows him to replace his used sharingan after his eye closes.
-The reason he is considered a "shell of his former self" is because he had the Kyuubi ripped from him while he was the 9-tails Jinchuuriki (before Uzumaki Mito).
-The reason his sharingan is always active may have something to do with his Senju powers.
-Madara claims he gave Nagato the Rinnegan because, Nagato is Madara's son.
-Nagato has half his faced covered by his long hair, just like Madara.
-As for the mystery coffin, probably Madara's brother, or maybe Shisui. He seems to pop up every now and then and his power could pose the most serious threat.
-And Kabuto is Tsunade's adopted brother, Tsunade was the medical ninja who found him in the field after the battle... oh wait, that has nothing to do with Tobi

[HasuMasu]

So we have to accept that Sasuke joins the Academy at 6, which is the usual age for kids starting school.

on an unrelated note, i went to school at age 3

[KidSoap]

Originally Posted by james0246

Lee will never be a Jounin due to the simple fact that one fo the requirements for being a Jounin is the ability to use elemental ninjutsu, and to be able to use 2 elements. (It's still unclear what his elements are.)

---

That being said, I forgot to bring this up 20+ chapters ago, but there is further evidence that Madara is not Obito, or at least that he does not use Obito's eye. Specifically, during the encounter between Kakashi and Sasuke, Itachi's trap did not react to Kakashi's "borrowed" eye. Now, while it is true that Itachi's trap may be a simple one-time deal (though it makes you wonder why Madara/Tobi has never revealed himself since if Itachi's trap is not repeatable), but if it is not then it should have reacted to Kakashi the same as it reacted to Madara/Tobi if both characters have Obito's eyes (specifically, Itachi's trap was designed to activate when it "saw" Madara's eye design; now if Madara's eye came from Obito, then it stands to reason the same trap would have worked on Kakashi's eye, but since it did not we can only conclude that either Madara's eye is not Obito's or Itachi's trap would never work again (which begs the question as to why Madara/Tobi never attempted to reveal himself later).

It's stated that MOST Jounin can use at least 2 elements, that can lead you to believe not all can



probably got something to do with ability and power. Also down to records, how many missions of high difficulty (A..B)

Something probably Rock Lee did not excel in due to his long term injuries that actually makes sence. Lee couldn't go on alot of missions so he doesn't have alot of that experience yet.

[Amaranta]

One theory I have is that Tobi is actually an illegitimate child of some Uchiha man. Said Uchiha saw a pretty girl from a nearby village one day and the two had a one night stand. Except they forgot to use a condom and out came Tobi. The man had already left when the woman found out she was pregnant and so she decided to keep the kid because she didn't know the man was an Uchiha/ninja and was against abortions. Tobi activates his Sharingan but tragically, Tobi's mom is like Haku's daddy and she attempts to kill him. Out of self defense, Tobi kills her and unintentionally receives the Mangekyo. Tobi would look into his background and discover the Uchiha, Konoha, and eventually Madara. It makes sense. Tobi wouldn't be a registered Uchiha so the village and Uchiha in general wouldn't know of his existence. The Uchiha are human and humans make mistakes (Especially when horny and in love) like forgetting to make sure the woman they have sex with don't get pregnant. It happens all the time with politicians... Who knows? Maybe Zetsu is actually Madara and Tobi is his son. Either way, I like the idea of Zetsu having a love child.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by james0246

That being said, I forgot to bring this up 20+ chapters ago, but there is further evidence that Madara is not Obito, or at least that he does not use Obito's eye. Specifically, during the encounter between Kakashi and Sasuke, Itachi's trap did not react to Kakashi's "borrowed" eye. Now, while it is true that Itachi's trap may be a simple one-time deal (though it makes you wonder why Madara/Tobi has never revealed himself since if Itachi's trap is not repeatable), but if it is not then it should have reacted to Kakashi the same as it reacted to Madara/Tobi if both characters have Obito's eyes (specifically, Itachi's trap was designed to activate when it "saw" Madara's eye design; now if Madara's eye came from Obito, then it stands to reason the same trap would have worked on Kakashi's eye, but since it did not we can only conclude that either Madara's eye is not Obito's or Itachi's trap would never work again (which begs the question as to why Madara/Tobi never attempted to reveal himself later).

the trap would have to be a one time deal…the logic of amaterasu activating when upon kakashi's eye is questionable, because if the eyes are identical (tobis and kakashis), and one thinks amaterasu should have spawned at the encounter with kakashi, then the amaterasu should have reactivated AT LEAST once more at tobis eye design (if the trigger is the eye design). there were numerous opportunities for this to happen between sasuke and tobi first meeting and sasuke's encounter with kakashi, so we have to assume it was a one shot deal…

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Amaranta

One theory I have is that Tobi is actually an illegitimate child of some Uchiha man. Said Uchiha saw a pretty girl from a nearby village one day and the two had a one night stand. Except they forgot to use a condom and out came Tobi. The man had already left when the woman found out she was pregnant and so she decided to keep the kid because she didn't know the man was an Uchiha/ninja and was against abortions. Tobi activates his Sharingan but tragically, Tobi's mom is like Haku's daddy and she attempts to kill him. Out of self defense, Tobi kills her and unintentionally receives the Mangekyo. Tobi would look into his background and discover the Uchiha, Konoha, and eventually Madara. It makes sense. Tobi wouldn't be a registered Uchiha so the village and Uchiha in general wouldn't know of his existence. The Uchiha are human and humans make mistakes (Especially when horny and in love) like forgetting to make sure the woman they have sex with don't get pregnant. It happens all the time with politicians... Who knows? Maybe Zetsu is actually Madara and Tobi is his son. Either way, I like the idea of Zetsu having a love child.

While I like the idea, I doubt Kishi would do anything that dramatic/mature, sadly.

[JC...]

I am Madara! Hahaha.

[Essenar]

Nothing about Tobi really makes sense logically. They kind of just threw him into a bunch of old memories randomly. "Oh yeah the Kyuubi attack! Tobi was there... Yeah Photo Bomb!" "Oh uh... When the second hokage was dying? Tobi was there too.... Yeah." "Oh yeah when Orochimaru attacked the village... Tobi was there too... Yeah he was hiding in them shadows..."

I think Tobi knew Itachi was involved with Akatsuki to keep an eye on them, but he knew Itachi would remain loyal because of honoring their agreement. As long as Madara didn't attack Konoha or Sasuke, he would do their bidding.

[Kowai]

Where is Shisui's other eye if Danzo had only the 1?

Only saying this because I have been thinking maybe Sasuke is actually being mind controlled and not actually as evil as he is acting. Tobi allegedly used the same power to manipulate the 3rd mizukage so I am predicting/hoping that more info will be given on Shisui and his missing eye when the Mizukage fights zetsu

[Baragan]

Btw the name to-bi is can also be translated to 10 tails in japanese

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Baragan

Btw the name to-bi is can also be translated to 10 tails in japanese

is this for real?