One Piece - Chapter 630 (manga)

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by james0246

That being said, I am stunned, once again, by the vicious genocide, and the idiocy of either Jinbei or the Fishmen nation. If a person is (or a people are) too stupid to accept help, even from someone they "hate", then they should just die off, since their idiocy will only pollute the gene pool.

Realistically, a country that need outside help in settling its own internal problems is pretty much doomed, so the Strawhats should not openly defeat Hody - that said, they can do it secretly like in Alabasta. Though the stage that Hody chooses complicates the matter.

But this is fiction, and thus, I don't care about what the nameless fishes are doing and honestly, I don't want Oda to spend pages on them, I want the Strawhats to get the spotlights.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

Personally, I expect zolo to be stronger than luffy at the moment if only because zoro learned how to fight from Mihawk for the whole period of time while ruffy only learned Haki from rayleigh for about half the time.

Rayleigh spent a year and a half teaching Luffy about Haki, so that left Luffy with 6 months to refine his skills on his own. Basically, the training went so well that Rayleigh felt it was unnecessary to train Luffy for the remaining time period.

As for Zoro, we don't know the details about his training. Mihawk may not have trained him for the entire 2 years. But since we haven't heard otherwise, the assumption that he did is understandable/reasonable.

In any case, the monster trio ranking will never change. It always has been, and always will be, Luffy>Zoro>Sanji. The gaps may be incredibly small, but Oda has never deviated from this hierarchy.

[marvelB]

Yeah, the monster trio are roughly equal with each other, but Luffy's pretty much a slight step above the other two. Not surprising, really. Though yeah, I'm definitely interested in seeing the full results of Zoro's two years under Mihawk's tutelage for myself....



I also really want to see if there's more to Brooke's astral projection technique than just floating around everywhere. Sure, it would be most useful for reconnaissance, but..... can he perhaps possess other creatures and objects with his soul? If so, I can sure as hell bet that Oda will make far more creative use of that power than someone like Kishi can......




Anyways, back to the NMP officers being fodder, as I said before, the ES pills pretty much ensure that those guys will be quite capable of taking on the new-and-improved Straw-Hats. Also, having seen them in action a bit this chapter, I think I can say that the most potentially dangerous member of the crew (aside from Hyouzou, who's really more of a mercenary than an official crewmember) is probably Ikaros. I mean, if his squid spears can absorb water, then that probably means that he can nullify just about any of Jinbei's merman karate techniques! If that's not a dangerous ability, then I don't know what is......

[grey_1960]

Chapter 630
That was a okay chapter. The cover of the chapter was funny. The Weapon shop keeper is pretty prideful of Zoro. Hodi pretty much screwed. Either he stops popping pills or he succumbs to wounds Zoro is inflicted on him. I don't know were this chapter is headed but it is getting crazy on the Island. If Hodi does not get a powerup then my next guess his he is going to spill his guts all over the floor. He looks like he is barely hanging in there.

Hodi
In the same sense Hodi has become a lot more dangerous now. The fact that he is on the verge of death or desperate anything can now happen with Hodi. I wonder what he is up to? The palace was secure place to hold a hostage and he leaves it. With Zoro, Ussop, and Brooks at the palace, what is he trying to do? Sound like a diversionary tactic to buy time for something. Luffy will know doubt go to the castle first so there might not be a confrontation unless Hodi is heading straight for Luffy.

[Homura7]

I have the feeling both Luffy and Jinbe will be greatly injured after their little skirmish, Luffy will have no choice but to stay behind and recover while Jinbe, greatly injured too, heads towards Fishman Island along with the other strawhats except Sanji. There he faces the reborn and far stronger Hodi, tries to reason with him first, then goes all out and eventually loses because of his wounds but not before giving his all.

After Jinbe passes out in front of all the citizens and the royalty, there will be no more reason for the strawhats to hold back and war will break out.

I don't know, but feel this has more than a 90% chance of happening.

[Hisoka??]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Rayleigh spent a year and a half teaching Luffy about Haki, so that left Luffy with 6 months to refine his skills on his own. Basically, the training went so well that Rayleigh felt it was unnecessary to train Luffy for the remaining time period.

As for Zoro, we don't know the details about his training. Mihawk may not have trained him for the entire 2 years. But since we haven't heard otherwise, the assumption that he did is understandable/reasonable.

In any case, the monster trio ranking will never change. It always has been, and always will be, Luffy>Zoro>Sanji. The gaps may be incredibly small, but Oda has never deviated from this hierarchy.

As I said, Rayleigh spent the time teaching Luffy about and how to use Haki. Zoro (I assume) was taught how to fight. The difference is that learning Haki may not level up your fighting power/strength as fast as learning/training to fight. But it would make a good foundation for future progress.

And I won't be too sure about the power rankings. There are quite a few manga where the main char's companions or allies become more powerful than them for a period of time. I see no reason Oda can't do it as well. Or given that it's Oda, he might just unexpectedly decide not to make the main character the strongest and still be able to pull it off.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Yeah, the monster trio are roughly equal with each other, but Luffy's pretty much a slight step above the other two. Not surprising, really. Though yeah, I'm definitely interested in seeing the full results of Zoro's two years under Mihawk's tutelage for myself....

I also really want to see if there's more to Brooke's astral projection technique than just floating around everywhere. Sure, it would be most useful for reconnaissance, but..... can he perhaps possess other creatures and objects with his soul? If so, I can sure as hell bet that Oda will make far more creative use of that power than someone like Kishi can......

don't forget robin's new cloning ability. i'm expecting more creative uses for that ability as well, more creative that kishi's kagebunshin.

the monster trio and their almost equal powers is one of the things i like most in this series. the fact that luffy and zoro can go at each other and have a difficult time defeating the other is what makes the characters more interesting. it only shows that even though luffy may be the lead star of the show, zoro has also a big share of the spotlight and he is not someone that could be easily defeated even by someone like luffy. you rarely see that in shonen manga. most of the time the lead character gets all the best power ups and becomes so ridiculously powerful only he can defeat the enemy.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by Adan

I have the feeling both Luffy and Jinbe will be greatly injured after their little skirmish, Luffy will have no choice but to stay behind and recover while Jinbe, greatly injured too, heads towards Fishman Island along with the other strawhats except Sanji. There he faces the reborn and far stronger Hodi, tries to reason with him first, then goes all out and eventually loses because of his wounds but not before giving his all.

After Jinbe passes out in front of all the citizens and the royalty, there will be no more reason for the strawhats to hold back and war will break out.

I don't know, but feel this has more than a 90% chance of happening.

Luffy is not the guy to just stay still and recover,unless he is unconscious.

And I'm pretty sure they won't go too serious with the fight,unless Chopper has some new hax healing powers,which would restore them both in seconds.
They're both major characters in this arc,Luffy with the prophecy(he's always important ;o) and Jinbei with his "Humans vs Fish people" thing,so if they both have to back off due to injuries,there's only 2 options :

1)Chopper or someone else heals them.

2)Zoro/Sanji/The rest of the crew,beat the crap out of everyone <<<< that might be a possibility if Oda wants to show off the result of their 2 yrs training,when not everything is focused on Luffy.

[randomlex]

We really don't know how the training went - Luffy might've fought with Rayleigh to improve his use of Haki, while Mihawk could've just let Zoro train by himself (unlikely, but it would be funny).

But yeah, if Luffy only fought those big monsters and Zoro fought Mihawk for most of the time, Luffy should be weaker in actual combat (Mihawk is definitely stronger than some huge animals ).

Then again, it doesn't really matter, since Zoro seems pretty loyal to Luffy - I don't even remember why...

Originally Posted by Hisoka??

As I said, Rayleigh spent the time teaching Luffy about and how to use Haki. Zoro (I assume) was taught how to fight. The difference is that learning Haki may not level up your fighting power/strength as fast as learning/training to fight. But it would make a good foundation for future progress.

And I won't be too sure about the power rankings. There are quite a few manga where the main char's companions or allies become more powerful than them for a period of time. I see no reason Oda can't do it as well. Or given that it's Oda, he might just unexpectedly decide not to make the main character the strongest and still be able to pull it off.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by noktown

2)Zoro/Sanji/The rest of the crew,beat the crap out of everyone <<<< that might be a possibility if Oda wants to show off the result of their 2 yrs training,when not everything is focused on Luffy.

This one is more likely. Classic part where the hero stays behind for whatever reason while the rest of his mates face the enemy fronts and beat the crap out of them. Eventually he'll come back to fight the final villian of the arc.

But Luffy and Jinbe losing consciousness? Sounds like I saw this before, but don't remember where...

[marvelB]

BTW, there's something I've been wondering for a while, now..... what if the ES pills were created through means of a DF? That would actually explain how Hody's overdose is causing this new transformation in him. I mean, we already saw a body-altering power with Iva's hormone fruit, so a drug-producing DF might not be such a farfetched idea......

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by marvelB

BTW, there's something I've been wondering for a while, now..... what if the ES pills were created through means of a DF? That would actually explain how Hody's overdose is causing this new transformation in him. I mean, we already saw a body-altering power with Iva's hormone fruit, so a drug-producing DF might not be such a farfetched idea......

The only thing I know is that this won't be the last arc where we hear about the Energy Steroids. Clearly these pills weren't made at the Candy Factory, there has to be more than just something that simple.

[marvelB]

^Yeah, I'm having doubts about the drugs being produced at the candy factory, as well. If that truly were the case, I doubt that Daruma would have been so eager to destroy part of it last chapter. The steroids most likely come from a different source......

[Watashi no Saki]

Originally Posted by Adan

The only thing I know is that this won't be the last arc where we hear about the Energy Steroids. Clearly these pills weren't made at the Candy Factory, there has to be more than just something that simple.

Interesting.. I never thought about the possibility of the pills coming from the Big Mum's candy factory.

However I find it interesting if that will be the case. Say Big Mum is behind all this ruckus, and then Luffy and crews destroys her influence in the Mermaid Island and send a war signal against the big female Yonkou. And Luffy will replace her place and claim the territory as his (I'm sure Luffy is now got the name to intimidate any pirates, but I also doubts Luffy will claim anything as his own even if it's for better good. "I don't want to conquer anything. To me, the free-est person on the sea is the King of the Pirate." he said back then)

But nah, that's too much of a fantasy, I guess.

[golgo13]

It would be weird if the pills came from the candy factory; would imply that part of big mums crew are a bunch of pill poppers that have a short life-span. Could be interesting though, maybe means that it is bug mums ability (to supply essential ingredient for creating es), I think the source coming from a df fruit is pretty insightful marvelb!

Random idea for big mums involvement, someone from their crew comes to fi to pick up the produce and sees the ruckus and intervenes.

[AnbuItachi]

I think it's more like Zoro and luffy are around the same level and are both stronger than Sanji. Each member of straw hats has their role to fulfill. Sanji is the cook. Fighting is his 2nd strong point. Zoro is purely Straw Hats' weapon/fighter. Luffy is the Captain and also a fighter. I believe based on the Manga, Luffy was always portrayed to be around the same level as Zoro but receives higher bounties and more fame because he is the captain is more well known. If they were to fight, I'd actually vote for Luffy b/c he's weak against swords. Luffy is also weak against seastone/seawater. So I'd actually say Zoro>=Luffy>Sanji

[paradox13]

I think it's more like Zoro and luffy are around the same level and are both stronger than Sanji. Each member of straw hats has their role to fulfill. Sanji is the cook. Fighting is his 2nd strong point.

I don't think your post was very well thought out, and here is why.

If we first look at the opponents of each of the monster trio, we can see a pattern:

Luffy
Arlong, Don Krieg, Sir Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Gecko Moria

Comments: It seems obvious to me that Luffy is by far the strongest of the monster trio. His past opponents have been either the 'boss' of the arc or the strongest opponent by a clear margin.

Now compare Zoro's past opponents with Sanji's.

Zoro: Hachi , Mr 1, Kaku

Sanji: Kuroobi, Mr 2, Jyabura

Comments: Zoro and Sanji's past opponents are more comparable. None of Zoro's past opponents are clearly more powerful than Sanji's. Many of them have had their own petty rivalries and fights that mirror Sanji and Zoro's own rivalry (Mr 2 and Mr 1, and Kaku and Jyabura). It can be argued that Mr 2 is of comparable strength to Mr 1 despite his lower rank, since he is the only Baroque Works agent who operates solo, and he is definitely more intelligent since he operates in an espionage role. Perhaps the best comparison between Sanji and Zoro's strength can be seen with regards to their opponents during the Cipher Pol arc. Kaku is ostensibly slightly more powerful than Jyabura (exactly 10 douriki if I remember correctly); however, Jyabura argues that douriki only takes into account physical strength, and not proficiency with devil fruit, and so he says that he is still more powerful than Kaku since he has used his devil fruit for a very long time.

Conclusion
Luffy > Zoro = Sanji

Firstly, Luffy's opponents have all been clearly more powerful than Zoro and Sanjis, whilst Zoro and Sanjis opponents have always been comparable with each other. Secondly, Zoro has stated several times in the past that he would never follow someone weaker than himself. Furthermore, Oda has highlighted the clear difference in strength with the huge gap between Zoro's bounty and Luffy's bounty (120 and 400), whilst Sanji's bounty is only slightly lower than Zoro's (77 and 120). Sanji and Zoro will always be roughly equal to each other in strength and power, in order to maintain their rivalry, which has always been a clear component of the SH crew and a theme within the manga.

[marvelB]

Okay, enough with the tier arguments for now, as the new thread is here! Things are starting to get real exciting, now.....!

[gaurun]

as for Luffy vs Zorro, I still prefer Luffy. dont forget, that Luffy have haki, which can make her body hardenen 'like' steel, predict enemy movement, and intimidate them(although i'm sure as hell that Zorro cannot be intimidate)