Penguin Drum - General Discussion

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

That's what I understood, but could be wrong. It would explain a lot though. The only certain thing is that it has nothing to do with Ringo's fate, since almost nothing the diary describes (as it is presented to us from Ringo) happens. But these events would make an awful lot of sense for her sister who was dating the teacher.

You're right that none of it quite fits for Ringo, but in that sense the flashback raises some interesting questions about her sister. Like I said, much of what we get is distorted because of Ringo's personality, but the diary is too..."perfect", I guess would be word that comes to mind. I just keep feeling like there's more to the diary than we've been told so far. It's either a massive red herring (as someone else suggested) or there's a reason why Ringo and the diary have gotten so much focus to the extent that it's almost dwarfing the brothers and Himari.

It's too convenient that we're never actually shown what her sister looked like. There are no pictures around the house, and the closest we get to anything showing her is a silhouette when she's riding on the bike with Tabuki. It's possible the lack of pictures could be explained by the parents just not wanting the reminder anymore, but to not even appear in flashbacks just seems strange.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Happy_Chip

Does anyone else, think this series is beginning to resemble Paranoia Agent?

The plot is already about as complex as Paranoia Agent - and I have no real idea where it's going to go. I don't think that we'll have enough information until at least the pink-haired character is introduced. In comparison, we didn't really have any idea about what Utena was about until episode 20-something, and no large hints until episode 30-something. Of course, these shows are structured totally differently from each other, but Ikuhara is unlikely to drop overly-large clues any time soon.

Originally Posted by Solace

You're right that none of it quite fits for Ringo, but in that sense the flashback raises some interesting questions about her sister. Like I said, much of what we get is distorted because of Ringo's personality, but the diary is too..."perfect", I guess would be word that comes to mind. I just keep feeling like there's more to the diary than we've been told so far. It's either a massive red herring (as someone else suggested) or there's a reason why Ringo and the diary have gotten so much focus to the extent that it's almost dwarfing the brothers and Himari.

I'm betting on a significance beyond what we've been led to believe so far. It's not really what the Penguin Hat is after, and it's not what Madoka is after. Maybe what they're more interested in is Momoka. And if she's still alive/semi-alive in some way, I'd expect her to be the pink-haired character: Momoka = peach; peach = pink. The main reason I don't think that the diary is a red herring is that Ikuhara doesn't seem likely to employ symbols that don't end up doing anything.

Originally Posted by Solace

It's too convenient that we're never actually shown what her sister looked like. There are no pictures around the house, and the closest we get to anything showing her is a silhouette when she's riding on the bike with Tabuki. It's possible the lack of pictures could be explained by the parents just not wanting the reminder anymore, but to not even appear in flashbacks just seems strange.

It's possible that there's a picture in Ringo's room. If so, Kanba has seen it, and he may have an inkling of its significance. Momoka not appearing in a flashback makes a lot of sense to me. So far, the flashbacks are from Ringo's point of view, and in that twisted vision, her father is an otter and her mother is a kappa. What is Momoka then? It's Ringo herself. At this point, every single visual and story element seem to be placed consciously and for a reason, so I'm confident that there will be a lot of answers forthcoming. Whether we'll be able to figure them out on a first watch is another matter.

[Happy_Chip]

the characters in PA were mentally ill (most if not all of them). Poor Ringo is mentally ill too. I guess you could laugh at the bizarre things she does, and how her romantic fantasies all fall apart, but she needs help. Badly. To me, it was painful watching episode 6, and seeing how bad shape she's in. The only time I've seen mental illness portrayed like this was in PA.

Although the two characters are quite different, Ringo reminds me of Ichi from PA (you know, the kid who relished being #1 all the time, and when it appeared he might not be #1 anymore, proceeded to a mental breakdown). I guess both were trying to make their external world conform to their inner ideas of what the world *must* be, and suffering the torture when they discover they cannot control the world around them.

I don't know how comic this series is supposed to be, but I could easily see Ringo kill someone. Or herself. Or both.

(I basically marathoned the first 6 episodes. I began thinking it was a nice slice-of-life comedy. Whoops...)

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Happy_Chip

the characters in PA were mentally ill (most if not all of them). Poor Ringo is mentally ill too. I guess you could laugh at the bizarre things she does, and how her romantic fantasies all fall apart, but she needs help. Badly. To me, it was painful watching episode 6, and seeing how bad shape she's in. The only time I've seen mental illness portrayed like this was in PA.

Although the two characters are quite different, Ringo reminds me of Ichi from PA (you know, the kid who relished being #1 all the time, and when it appeared he might not be #1 anymore, proceeded to a mental breakdown). I guess both were trying to make their external world conform to their inner ideas of what the world *must* be, and suffering the torture when they discover they cannot control the world around them.

While Penguindrum and Utena are very different shows in almost every respect, this is one of the places where having seen the latter makes for a very useful frame of reference. That's because the whole making the external world conform to inner ideas bit is one of the central themes of Utena. I doubt that Ikuhara is going to cover this same ground again because he already did such a good job the first time.

Instead, I think that he's using Ringo's delusion in some other way. The water motif is probably the strongest indication of what it might be, so that would be the best starting point as well. The most important piece of the puzzle is Momoka, so where have we seen peach symbols?

On top of that, Paranoia Agent was about the pressures in modern society and the need for release valves. Despite its weirdness, it's very much a social commentary. Penguindrum is a little bit too removed from reality and regular social structures for that kind of thing to work.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

That water thing is a reference to the drowning kids in Night of the Galactic Railroad - bear in mind that they already made a relevant reference in the form of the sole red shoe when Sho first chased Ringo - and thus you can draw ideas from it. She is a drowning / already drowned girl.

Spoiler for quoting myself from a good 20 pages back:

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

It's a reference to the single red shoe in the Utena Movie which is itself a reference to the shoe of a drowning kid in the animated movie adaptation of the Night on the Galactic railroad. I suppose it was an indicator of what was to come with regards to Ringo, she is kind of a drowning / drowned girl. And well, it's surreal, much like most stuff on this anime are.

Regarding the diary being too "perfect", there was this speculation about how someone else has a copy (perhaps the original) and is using it to make the events happen to keep Ringo in the loop. It could very well be Tabuki. He certainly does look sinister in that OP after all. And given how Natsume mentioned the same mission M deal as Ringo did, the chances of someone pulling the strings behind it all and being responsible for the near "perfection" of the diary is pretty high.

And, since this was being discussed in the last page, the show clearly established that the girl he visited on the Hospital is/was a model. Don't know how you guys missed that.

[JediNight]

Project M = Momoka possibly?

Maybe they needed Momoka to fulfill their plans (or she was the 'Penguindrum') and her death in the subway gas attacks made them need to revise their plans and try again with her sister (Ringo)?

Somehow following this diary would either make her in the correct mental state they require, or maybe there is more crazy "penguin tech" they have to transform her?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Happy_Chip

the characters in PA were mentally ill (most if not all of them). Poor Ringo is mentally ill too. I guess you could laugh at the bizarre things she does, and how her romantic fantasies all fall apart, but she needs help. Badly. To me, it was painful watching episode 6, and seeing how bad shape she's in. The only time I've seen mental illness portrayed like this was in PA.

Although the two characters are quite different, Ringo reminds me of Ichi from PA (you know, the kid who relished being #1 all the time, and when it appeared he might not be #1 anymore, proceeded to a mental breakdown). I guess both were trying to make their external world conform to their inner ideas of what the world *must* be, and suffering the torture when they discover they cannot control the world around them.

I don't know how comic this series is supposed to be, but I could easily see Ringo kill someone. Or herself. Or both.

(I basically marathoned the first 6 episodes. I began thinking it was a nice slice-of-life comedy. Whoops...)

Still, if there is any consolation I think Penguin will have some sort of happy ending. The creator isn't into dark endings, only dark middles. I fully expect everyone getting what's coming to them. Though there is a good chance Himari wouldn't make it because, well, she is already dead.

[wandering-dreamer]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Instead, I think that he's using Ringo's delusion in some other way. The water motif is probably the strongest indication of what it might be, so that would be the best starting point as well. The most important piece of the puzzle is Momoka, so where have we seen peach symbols?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but the destiny stamp has a peach symbol on it and the gate to Ringo's apartment complex has one as well.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

That water thing is a reference to the drowning kids in Night of the Galactic Railroad - bear in mind that they already made a relevant reference in the form of the sole red shoe when Sho first chased Ringo - and thus you can draw ideas from it. She is a drowning / already drowned girl.

I expect Ringo's story to play out quite differently. She's trapped by the death of her sister, and everything that she does is a part of the trap. Shouma seems to be in a position to break her out, and that may be what the rest of the show is going to explore.

Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not but the destiny stamp has a peach symbol on it and the gate to Ringo's apartment complex has one as well.

It was a rhetorical question.

[Jan Jansen]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The main reason I don't think that the diary is a red herring is that Ikuhara doesn't seem likely to employ symbols that don't end up doing anything.

Spoiler for SKU:

Miki's stopwatch.

And you can make a case that Ikuhara introduces a lot of visual elements that are entertaining, and 'feel right' in the context of the show, but don't have any deep meaning. All the cars in the final arcs of Utena, for example.

Spoiler for Adolescence of Utana movie:

Ikuhara has said, in reference to the Utena movie, IIRC, "I just like turning pretty girls into cars."

But I agree, the diary is such a huge plot focus that there's no chance it will be thrown away. Its meaning will be more fully explored.

So, Ep 6. I agree with everyone else, fine episode. One of Ikuhara's major past themes, memory, is showing up in MPD with increasing importance. In SKU, characters were manipulated by their memories: memories that inspired and sustained, memories that tormented or enslaved. In MPD, Ringo's family is torn apart by their refusal to let go of the memory of Momoka. Natsume is manipulating the memories of others. Is she trying to change the past, so to speak? To close the box again, and bring the cat back to life?

We see yet another interpretation of Fate, expressed by Ringo's father: Fate is something that must be accepted. (Cf. Kan, to whom fate is something to hate, and Ringo, to whom fate is a destiny to fulfill.)

If we get Schrodinger's Cat, can quantum mechanics be far behind? I'm trying to understand Ringo's secret, parallel life in Tabuki's crawlspace in terms of quantum theory. Are these the parallel universes of the 'many worlds' hypothesis? Ringo, ghostly, superimposed on Tabuki's bed is an amazing image. Beautiful, poignant, tragic.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Jan Jansen

But I agree, the diary is such a huge plot focus that there's no chance it will be thrown away. Its meaning will be more fully explored.

The diary is the second most prominent symbol in the entire show.

Spoiler for Utena Talk:

Originally Posted by Jan Jansen

Miki's stopwatch.

This does have some importance; not much, but about equal to its prominence in the show.

Originally Posted by Jan Jansen

And you can make a case that Ikuhara introduces a lot of visual elements that are entertaining, and 'feel right' in the context of the show, but don't have any deep meaning. All the cars in the final arcs of Utena, for example.

Ikuhara has said, in reference to the Utena movie, IIRC, "I just like turning pretty girls into cars."

Ikuhara was lying - he did that a lot. He originally said that the stopwatch held the secrets to the universe as well.

[Kagatob]

Am I the only one who noticed in the flashback scene when she first looks at her sister's diary that she also has a Death Note?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Kagatob

Am I the only one who noticed in the flashback scene when she first looks at her sister's diary that she also has a Death Note?

No, it's been posted a multiple times already in this thread.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Spoiler for Utena Talk:

This does have some importance; not much, but about equal to its prominence in the show.

Ikuhara was lying - he did that a lot. He originally said that the stopwatch held the secrets to the universe as well.

I agree with 4Tran here. Ikuhara was lying about the car thing. That scene actually held a lot meaning.

[DragoonKain3]

Project M = Maternity

Jaws have been dropped... 'survival strategy' indeed. XD

Though how mysterious amnesia inducing girl is related to project M, especially with her erasing Kanba's connection's memories, I have no clue. Taking out the competition so that he focuses on Himari? I dunno lols.

[EroKing]

Episode 7

Tabuki and Ringo on a date? hah never!

Noto Mamiko singing? that was pure gold

A party where Yuri and Tabuki announcing their engagement. Saw this coming.

Crazy Ringo trying to make a love potion. Oh Shou, the things you do for Himari

M in the Project M stood for Maternity. Highly doubt Tabuki and Ringo would "get together".

I wonder if Masako's Project M also refers to maternity aswell. Big part of me thinks no. Maybe it's something more dark like "Murder"? Whatever the case may be looking at Tabuki in the OP and his "too good" character so far pretty sure he is hiding quite a lot of stuff. It would be interesting if Ringo finds Yuri with Tabuki in his futon

I hope the future revelations are done nicely like they have been so far.

[Guardian Enzo]

I guess I'll be in the minority on this, but that was probably the weakest episode of the series for me. Most of the humor fell flat and the continued emphasis on Ringo is really starting to wear on me.

[Jellyfish Marine]

Hi, this my first post in this thread. Let me join in the search for penguin drum too!

Watched EP 7. My weird speculation:

Spoiler:

Yuri also has her own project M, is connected to Momoka somehow and perhaps aware of the existence of the diary? I have a feeling that she is pretty nice to Ringo, faking or not, and seems like she is trying to keep Ringo around. Maybe Ringo is an important element in Yuri's project M?
It would be pretty interesting if it turns out that Yuri's project M is to fill in the roles of Momoka. Some of the things she did went along with the diary to some extents.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I guess I'll be in the minority on this, but that was probably the weakest episode of the series for me. Most of the humor fell flat and the continued emphasis on Ringo is really starting to wear on me.

You might be in the minority, but you're not alone.

Well, I wouldn't call it the "weakest episode of the series", but having no significant "Plot B" this episode hurt Episode 7 a bit, imo, and so it did feel weaker than Penguindrum's usual episode quality to me.

An entire episode of yandere Ringo and her romance troubles is just too much for me.

Ringo is, imo, another one of those characters that's very entertaining when used in the right doses, but too much of her takes away a lot of her charm. She can wear thin on you, as you say.

Plus, the penguins weren't used as much this episode as I would have liked. They're the real comedic stars of the show for me, lol.

[Guardian Enzo]

Yeah, needs more penguins. And Kanba. And Shouma not being abused and degraded like in a cheap and poorly made romantic comedy.

Could that possibly have been Maya Suzukaze as “The Count”, Yuri’s co-star who later showed up at the party? It sure sounded like her.