International Saimoe League 2011

[KholdStare]

Hey guys. I want your opinion on the following matter.

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?
2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML? If you're not a frequent voter, what would convince you to vote more in ISML?

[RegalStar]

What I"d like to see most would probably be changes to the necklace system. I know it's necessary to keep people interested enough to sit through 49 rounds of the same people over and over again (which I believe to be much more important than it is boring), but the emphasis on SDO, a factor which the characters themselves have little control over is really quite annoying.

For one thing, I think we can just do away with SDO entirely in necklace matches, since with the characters duking out with each other directly, there is no need for an indirect statistic to muddy the waters.

[Game8910]

Everything ISML related can be answered this way

Originally Posted by KholdStare

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?

People that dont have my taste

Originally Posted by KholdStare

2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML?

People getting the same taste as me

[ion475]

To me, the one who really underperformed last round was Mikoto. I mean, she's facing Shiina, pretty much the second or third weakest girl in the game (depending on who you're talking to), and her vote precentage is like only 0.4 precentage points higher than Kanade, who was facing Mikuru (who is around the middle of the whole pack). I was predicting her to surpass Kanade by at least 3 precentage points.

Meh, it's not Biribiri underperforming, it's more like Kanade is on her own and should not be used as comparison against anyone else in this tourney...Shiina tend to get around the same amount of votes no matter which Tier 1 (Other than Kanade, who hit 80% the first match against Shiina...) she's against anyway...

EDIT:

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?

Eh...being too long I guess. Nothing one can do about it (Other than reducing the size of the pool...but new girls would even have less a chance of even seeing the daylight...), but I'll just complain anyway...

2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML? If you're not a frequent voter, what would convince you to vote more in ISML?

Shorten the season, then have 2 per year just to make sure people get tired of it XD (Mostly just a complaint of how ISML is unfair to spring anime, much like how JAST is unfair to summer anime...)

[RegalStar]

Originally Posted by ion475

Meh, it's not Biribiri underperforming, it's more like Kanade is on her own and should not be used as comparison against anyone else in this tourney...Shiina tend to get around the same amount of votes no matter which Tier 1 (Other than Kanade, who hit 80% the first match against Shiina...) she's against anyway...

Kanade's edge on Mikoto is quite a bit smaller than Mikuru's edge on Shiina, though.

[Rajura]

Someone already beat me to posting something of a similar nature, but I'll still say it...

1) I don't like seeing Holo do as poorly as she has this year.

2) I'd like to see Holo win a necklace... and if at all possible win the ISML!

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Hey guys. I want your opinion on the following matter.

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?
2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML? If you're not a frequent voter, what would convince you to vote more in ISML?

1) The season format. Limited number of anime characters. Though, still possible to have a greater number of characters in ISML - and yet keep the "season" format. The "Necklaces" can actually be used as "Divisions" or "Groups", by which characters within the divsion/groups compete to qualify (top 4, 8, etc.) for the final tournament bracket.

Limit qualification to characters within a fiscal year (like January to December). It's strange seeing Clannad characters, when the other two major Moe tournaments do not have them.

===

2) I don't vote in the regular season at all. I wait for the elimination bracket to even pay attention.

[Sphire]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Hey guys. I want your opinion on the following matter.

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?
2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML? If you're not a frequent voter, what would convince you to vote more in ISML?

1. Schedule. This year seems a bit too rigid, being able to predict matches in Round 7 by Round 3-4 of a period, if not sooner. I don't remember that being the case last year (before the schedule was released at least). There weren't many 'mini-groups' last year either if I recall right, where as this year anyone who faced Hina (and Hina herself) could only expect 63 SDO max. I'd prefer a more random schedule, especially since SDO tends to be based on luck of the draw in the first place. Maybe hold back the Tier 1 battles for R7 of a period if you think that adds some spice, although I'd probably still prefer random.

2. I guess I'm a frequent voter. I'd like to somehow see new characters introduced mid-season. Maybe the 5 bottom characters (or 10) get relegated and replaced with other characters somehow. I find it boring that the bottom of the league doesn't change. And let's face it people seem to have made their mind up early on as to who they'll leave to constantly lose. The only spice this year has come from Victorique moving up in strength as the year went on. New characters (esp if from new shows) could add to that spice. I know that probably conflicts with my answer to no. 1, since it would be a scheduling nightmare.

[Akito Kinomoto]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Hey guys. I want your opinion on the following matter.

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?
2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML? If you're not a frequent voter, what would convince you to vote more in ISML?

I'm not too familiar with the arrangement system or whatever, so I'd like to see a more victory-based issue finally tackled. Mainly, Shana needs that freaking Ruby Necklace before she becomes old news. If Suiseiseki can get Emerald on her second try, surely the longer staying Shana can land Ruby, right?

RIGHT?!

[broken270]

Funny how I think this is probably the "fairest" year.

Spoiler for space:

Like any tournament, I find them to be too long. Sadly, the only thing I can think of to make ISML run faster is cutting break time, which may put more pressure and stress on everyone than benefiting. Is it possible for you guys to take out a week on the break between preliminary and regular season and the break between regular season and post season, or is it too much stress for you guys?Increasing # of characters leads to longer time playing ISML and seeing more favorites turn to despair. I say 50 is probably the best medium to work with, not too much like 64, but not too little like 36.

I also think necklace round 8 is fair as well in the respect that there is a variety of people receiving necklaces while not relying too highly on SDO. If it was done in previous years, the only necklace winners we would have thus far are Mikoto and Kanade, which would seriously tick me off. Last year's necklace system piss me off in the fact that Shana won quite too many necklaces that can easily be given to other people. While I do agree that SDO is quite an annoying thing to deal with, I sadly cannot think of an alternative for this, since there has to be "something" to work with to know who qualifies to obtain them.

[KholdStare]

Thanks all for your answers so far. We have a proposal for ISML 2012 that may interest you since it addresses many of the concerns I've read.

Originally Posted by broken270

I also think necklace round 8 is fair as well in the respect that there is a variety of people receiving necklaces while not relying too highly on SDO. If it was done in previous years, the only necklace winners we would have thus far are Mikoto and Kanade, which would seriously tick me off. Last year's necklace system piss me off in the fact that Shana won quite too many necklaces that can easily be given to other people. While I do agree that SDO is quite an annoying thing to deal with, I sadly cannot think of an alternative for this, since there has to be "something" to work with to know who qualifies to obtain them.

Thanks for this comment. This is exactly what the staff currently thinks right now. If we don't use SDO and use strictly points, then think about it--the schedule still has a direct influence. It's still "luck" if a character's opponents will enable her to go 5-2 or 6-1, thus eligible for the necklace match or not.

[Sphire]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Thanks all for your answers so far. We have a proposal for ISML 2012 that may interest you since it addresses many of the concerns I've read.

I've looked at that and given it some thought. All I can say is I have mixed feelings. I'll at first like to say that I can appreciate the underlying reasoning behind the changes.

Firstly, I like the concept of having divisions. But probably not in that fashion. The first major issue I see is thinning of competition by spreading equal-power characters across divisions. Less competition might throw off voters too. The second issue is increasing character numbers. An example say if this format was done this year, let's say Shana (no. 1 vet) faces Kuroko (no. 20 vet), she'd still own Kuroko as if she was a no. 40 overall (which Kuroko almost is presently). If that's the case, imagine how much more ownage she would put on the characters below Kuroko. I think increasing the number of characters just increases the fodder.

The only likely people who benefit from the change are newcomers with ongoing shows. People like Homura and Elsie, who at the end of the day, didn't get enough votes in the first place. And if they don't get ongoing shows? Fodder I assume.

For me personally, the biggest thing I'd like to see are people like Ohana and the Hanasaku Iroha gang, Homura and the PMMM gang, Menma and the AnoHana gang, Erio and the Denpa Onna gang, Himeji and the Baka gang, mix it up with the current leaders. Now. But not only do I have to wait until next year, now they won't even mix it up with Shana, Hina, Yuki and the other vets? I dunno man.

As for the post-season, I'm mixed again. It's not totally worthless winning a circlet, but it still looks pale in comparison to the tiara. Necklaces are already non-important to me, and this just adds more jewelry. Diminishing effect kinda thing. While still managing not to reward someone for winning the regular season...which to me is far more impressive. For the post-season itself, I'd honestly prefer a whole 32 tournament duke out, perhaps with vets and newcomers criss-crossing each other too rather than segregated.


That probably came out more negative than I intended. You guys probably have gone through a lot of scenarios yourself and tried to come up with something. If you're set on this way then more power and I hope it turns out great. My gripes are mostly just gonna be from my perspective, who knows if others share it. If you guys are still open to ideas, I can make a proposal. It would be radical too though.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Hey guys. I want your opinion on the following matter.

1) What do you dislike most about ISML?

SDO. Taiga had an insane SDO advantage going into the last Necklace finale, and that made the outcome a foregone conclusion when it otherwise would not have been.

I'm not an ISML vet, so I'm not sure why SDO was brought in to begin with, but even so: Here's a clear case where my interest in a Necklace match was diminished considerably due to SDO making its outcome almost entirely certain, imo.

I don't quite understand why the Necklace finale match can't simply be a straight-up vote competition: No SDO or any substitute for it.

If the answer is "Without SDO (or a substitute for it), the round robin-style matches would be meaningless" then I counter that with "No, they wouldn't, because simply getting into the Necklace finale requires doing well in the round robin-style matches, doesn't it? If so, then those matches are still meaningful".

I honestly would much prefer for SDO to be scrapped entirely, and for necklace matches to be 100% vote competitions. Watching a character come 2nd (or lower) in actual votes, but still win the necklace, honestly makes me think of George W. Bush in the 2000 US Presidential election.

2) If you consider yourself a frequent voter, what would you like to happen to ISML?

Scrap SDO, and go with 100% vote competitions for Necklace finales.

Have in place some sort of replacement system that enables newcomers to slide into ISML over the year, while gradually chucking out characters that constantly lose.

At this juncture, a match pitting one of ISML's strongest 16 against Homura, Ohana, Menma, or Erio would be much more interesting than a match pitting one of ISML's strongest 16 against the weakest of the Angel Beats! and Infinite Stratos girls.

[ion475]

For me personally, the biggest thing I'd like to see are people like Ohana and the Hanasaku Iroha gang, Homura and the PMMM gang, Menma and the AnoHana gang, Erio and the Denpa Onna gang, Himeji and the Baka gang, mix it up with the current leaders. Now. But not only do I have to wait until next year, now they won't even mix it up with Shana, Hina, Yuki and the other vets? I dunno man.

Sad fact is, half of them would be forgotten by the time ISML 2012 comes around...

I honestly would much prefer for SDO to be scrapped entirely, and for necklace matches to be 100% vote competitions. Watching a character come 2nd (or lower) in actual votes, but still win the necklace, honestly makes me think of George W. Bush in the 2000 US Presidential election.

I would say that it's a good tiebreaker in terms of necklace qualification, but that's it. I mean, Hina will never win any necklace this year just b/c her SDO is max 63...

Have in place some sort of replacement system that enables newcomers to slide into ISML over the year, while gradually chucking out characters that constantly lose.

Problem I see with that is fairness. With the current structure, everyone faced everyone else once, so you won't have situation where one's schedule is tougher than another (Which is problem with many American sports...). If, let say, you have Erio replace Shiina and Homura replace Laura, then you would have Kanade, who fought Shiina early on, probably either have to fight Erio somehow, or not having to fight her at all. While someone like Biribiri would not ever get the "freebie" win over Shiina. Fine, Biribiri would still win over Erio, but what about Homura, who's Kanade's strength (if not more)?

Thanks all for your answers so far. We have a proposal for ISML 2012 that may interest you since it addresses many of the concerns I've read.

It sounds good on paper. But the most interesting aspect of ISML (to me) is the ability for newcomer from recent series to fight against old-timers from older series, which doesn't happen as often in JAST (I don't care about KBM...), and dividing them would makes thing even more boring. For example, as much as Shana v. Mio is an interesting matchup, that have been done a few times already. Hack, if you're using the division this year, we won't even see Shana v. Kanade or even Biribiri v. Kanade...(I'm using TRE's post in ISML forum as reference...).

There's also a HUGE strength difference anyway. Okay, using TRE's list (I don't have any other one...), Top 16 (as of end of Ruby 2) is evenly divided into 8 newcomers and 8 veterans, which is good news. On the other hand, you have a huge group of veteran bunch in mid-table (22-34 are all returning veteren except Mato and Ayase), then you have 10 out of bottom 11 being newcomer (with the exception of Rin). As if Kanade is not having too easy of a time already, she would only now have to fight Azusa, Kuroneko, and if the proposal was implemented this year, Homuhomu (Who is SURE to gain strength...). While, let say, Shana will have to fight Mio, Yuki, Taiga, Biribiri, Hina, or even Haruhi to go anywhere...

[Sphire]

Originally Posted by ion475

Sad fact is, half of them would be forgotten by the time ISML 2012 comes around...



Problem I see with that is fairness. With the current structure, everyone faced everyone else once, so you won't have situation where one's schedule is tougher than another (Which is problem with many American sports...). If, let say, you have Erio replace Shiina and Homura replace Laura, then you would have Kanade, who fought Shiina early on, probably either have to fight Erio somehow, or not having to fight her at all. While someone like Biribiri would not ever get the "freebie" win over Shiina. Fine, Biribiri would still win over Erio, but what about Homura, who's Kanade's strength (if not more)?

Would they really be forgotten by then? Doesn't matter really, my main 'want' is for some of them to get into current action.

If they don't get votes, or get forgotten, so be it, it'd be much better than seeing people go 0-49, 1-48, 2-47 the whole year.

Fairness is an issue for the typical way the league is handled now, which is why a radical change would be needed, but the current proposal is radical as it is too.

And if those characters I mentioned do get forgotten next year, then they'd be up for an elimination too, if they get into the main league in the first place.

[melange]

Originally Posted by ion475

It sounds good on paper. But the most interesting aspect of ISML (to me) is the ability for newcomer from recent series to fight against old-timers from older series, which doesn't happen as often in JAST (I don't care about KBM...), and dividing them would makes thing even more boring. For example, as much as Shana v. Mio is an interesting matchup, that have been done a few times already. Hack, if you're using the division this year, we won't even see Shana v. Kanade or even Biribiri v. Kanade...(I'm using TRE's post in ISML forum

You will see shana v kanade or biri biri v kanade.... In postseason when the hype that these few are the top scoring characters in their individual divisions that haven't yet faced each other directly one on one will be strongest.

What this does is:
a) cuts out the monotony of watching the mid levels of the veterans wiping out anyone who isn't a top performing newcomer.
b) you'll only see the cream of the newcomers go against the cream of the veterans,
c) and you'll see it as intense postseason matchups and not just another round robin match. distills and heightens the top vets vs top newcomers matches with lots riding on this 'first encounter'

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ion475

I would say that it's a good tiebreaker in terms of necklace qualification, but that's it. I mean, Hina will never win any necklace this year just b/c her SDO is max 63...

Yes, I can agree with that - Using it to determine who gets into the necklace matches, but nothing else.

Problem I see with that is fairness. With the current structure, everyone faced everyone else once, so you won't have situation where one's schedule is tougher than another (Which is problem with many American sports...). If, let say, you have Erio replace Shiina and Homura replace Laura, then you would have Kanade, who fought Shiina early on, probably either have to fight Erio somehow, or not having to fight her at all. While someone like Biribiri would not ever get the "freebie" win over Shiina. Fine, Biribiri would still win over Erio, but what about Homura, who's Kanade's strength (if not more)?

I see your point, and its a legitimate "con", but I think that the "pro" of having much more interesting (and up-to-date) matches in the 2nd half of the year makes the "con" worth it.

It sounds good on paper. But the most interesting aspect of ISML (to me) is the ability for newcomer from recent series to fight against old-timers from older series, which doesn't happen as often in JAST (I don't care about KBM...), and dividing them would makes thing even more boring. For example, as much as Shana v. Mio is an interesting matchup, that have been done a few times already. Hack, if you're using the division this year, we won't even see Shana v. Kanade or even Biribiri v. Kanade...(I'm using TRE's post in ISML forum as reference...).

Yeah, I don't like the two-division idea either. I appreciate the time, thought, and effort that went into conceiving it, but this is a case where I think the "cons" outweigh the "pros".

Much better to use a replacement system to ensure that we get more new girls in, imo.

Edit: The WWE used something akin to the two-division idea when it split its roster into one for Raw and one for Smackdown. Sure, it made the rare Raw Champ vs. Smackdown Champ match that much more interesting, but it also meant that each show had a narrower poll of talent to take from, making the standard competitions (where the two shows aren't competing with one another) less interesting than what would otherwise be the case. Hell, the WWE realized this themselves, which is why they sometimes flatout ignored the roster division, and at times had an unified champ showing up on both shows. I doubt that ISML will have flexibility like this, though.

[ars89]

Ruby - Round 3

ARENA 01: [Nakano Azusa] Shiina Mafuyu
ARENA 02: [Kōsaka Kirino] Laura Bodewig
ARENA 03: Katsura Hinagiku [Furukawa Nagisa]
ARENA 04: [Tachibana Kanade] Fujibayashi Kyō
ARENA 05: Holo [Index L. Prohibitorum]
ARENA 06: Hiiragi Kagami [Eucliwood Hellscythe]
ARENA 07: Asahina Mikuru [Hirasawa Yui]
ARENA 08: Kuroi Mato [Victorique de Blois]
ARENA 09: [Senjōgahara Hitagi] Fate Testarossa
ARENA 10: Izumi Konata [Saber]
ARENA 11: [Hirasawa Ui] Shinonono Hōki
ARENA 12: [Suzumiya Haruhi] Aragaki Ayase
ARENA 13: [Last Order] Akiyama Mio
ARENA 14: Kasugano Sora [Charlotte Dunois]
ARENA 15: [Seraphim] Konjiki no Yami
ARENA 16: [Tōsaka Rin] Shirai Kuroko
ARENA 17: [Shana] C.C.
ARENA 18: [Gokō Ruri (Kuroneko)] Shiina
ARENA 19: [Yui] Huang Lingyin
ARENA 20: Louise Vallière [Sengoku Nadeko]
ARENA 21: [Misaka Mikoto] Kotobuki Tsumugi
ARENA 22: [Nagato Yuki] Sanzen'in Nagi
ARENA 23: [Aisaka Taiga] Iwasawa Asami
ARENA 24: Nymph [Nakamura Yuri]
ARENA 25: Haruna [Sakagami Tomoyo]
ARENA 26: [Illyasviel von Einzbern] Matō Sakura

[hinakatbklyn]

ARENA 01: [Nakano Azusa] Shiina Mafuyu
ARENA 02: [Kōsaka Kirino] Laura Bodewig
ARENA 03: [Katsura Hinagiku] Furukawa Nagisa
ARENA 04: Tachibana Kanade [Fujibayashi Kyō]
ARENA 05: [Holo] Index L. Prohibitorum
ARENA 06: [Hiiragi Kagami] Eucliwood Hellscythe
ARENA 07: Asahina Mikuru [Hirasawa Yui]
ARENA 08: Kuroi Mato [Victorique de Blois]
ARENA 09: Senjōgahara Hitagi [Fate Testarossa]
ARENA 10: Izumi Konata [Saber]
ARENA 11: Hirasawa Ui [Shinonono Hōki]
ARENA 12: [Suzumiya Haruhi] Aragaki Ayase
ARENA 13: [Last Order] Akiyama Mio
ARENA 14: Kasugano Sora [Charlotte Dunois]
ARENA 15: Seraphim [Konjiki no Yami]
ARENA 16: [Tōsaka Rin] Shirai Kuroko
ARENA 17: Shana [C.C.]
ARENA 18: [Gokō Ruri (Kuroneko)] Shiina
ARENA 19: [Yui] Huang Lingyin
ARENA 20: Louise Vallière [Sengoku Nadeko]
ARENA 21: [Misaka Mikoto] Kotobuki Tsumugi
ARENA 22: Nagato Yuki [Sanzen'in Nagi]
ARENA 23: [Aisaka Taiga] Iwasawa Asami
ARENA 24: Nymph [Nakamura Yuri]
ARENA 25: [Haruna] Sakagami Tomoyo
ARENA 26: [Illyasviel von Einzbern] Matō Sakura

[Triple_R]

Probably the easiest round for me ever. Only one match I wanted to abstain on, but since I like the idea of no abstains, I simply used the Demi. rule (i.e. vote for the blonde ) to make a choice in it. Only two or three matches that I took more than 5 seconds to decide on.


ARENA 01: [Nakano Azusa] Shiina Mafuyu
ARENA 02: Kōsaka Kirino [Laura Bodewig]
ARENA 03: Katsura Hinagiku [Furukawa Nagisa]
ARENA 04: Tachibana Kanade [Fujibayashi Kyō]
ARENA 05: [Holo] Index L. Prohibitorum
ARENA 06: [Hiiragi Kagami] Eucliwood Hellscythe
ARENA 07: Asahina Mikuru [Hirasawa Yui]
ARENA 08: Kuroi Mato [Victorique de Blois]
ARENA 09: Senjōgahara Hitagi [Fate Testarossa]
ARENA 10: Izumi Konata [Saber]
ARENA 11: [Hirasawa Ui] Shinonono Hōki
ARENA 12: [Suzumiya Haruhi] Aragaki Ayase
ARENA 13: Last Order [Akiyama Mio]
ARENA 14: Kasugano Sora [Charlotte Dunois]
ARENA 15: Seraphim [Konjiki no Yami]
ARENA 16: [Tōsaka Rin] Shirai Kuroko
ARENA 17: [Shana] C.C.
ARENA 18: [Gokō Ruri (Kuroneko)] Shiina
ARENA 19: [Yui] Huang Lingyin
ARENA 20: Louise Vallière [Sengoku Nadeko]
ARENA 21: Misaka Mikoto [Kotobuki Tsumugi]
ARENA 22: [Nagato Yuki] Sanzen'in Nagi
ARENA 23: Aisaka Taiga [Iwasawa Asami]
ARENA 24: Nymph [Nakamura Yuri]
ARENA 25: Haruna [Sakagami Tomoyo]
ARENA 26: [Illyasviel von Einzbern] Matō Sakura