2011-11-06, 13:12 | Link #5381 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Anyway forgiving Kumagawa isn't really the point, there's a reason why villains have fans even despite the fact of whatever attrocities they've commited. you don't have to be forgiven by someone for your actions in order to be liked by them. People really like Kumagawa so his actions don't really matter. Now if he existed in real life it probably would be a problem but as long as he's fictional they don't care. |
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2011-11-06, 16:11 | Link #5385 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I say this every-time but This manga owns face, look forward to this more than Naruto and there was no new powers or anything in that fight.
There is a way that Kumagawa could have gotten his power without Najima help. Since Minus powers are created from their messed up minds and horrible situations, we can call it a mental wound, if Scar Dead opened that wound(hundred Gauntlets) that was "healed" when it was taken away, He could get All fiction back. Possible? |
2011-11-06, 20:17 | Link #5387 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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I don't agree with their goal because it's impossible and because the status quo wasn't that great in the first place, but their motivations are admirable. Except for Kumagawa, who is just doing this for fun. |
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2011-11-06, 22:37 | Link #5388 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Medaka and Zenkichi would not have to fight if their goals and ideals were actually the same. The problem is that Zenkichi is not even looking at Medaka's dreams or ideals in the first place, only at the "position" of being the most special person in her heart. What Zenkichi doesn't understand is that it's not, as Ajimu is telling him, her enemies that Medaka would most truly value, but rather someone who genuinely shares her dream. It's only the fact that no such person has yet existed that makes it look like Medaka prefers her enemies. The thing which could restore the Student Council to peace and repair Zen and Medaka's relationship is if they could come to genuinely support and understand each other. Ajimu has mired Zenkichi in self-doubt and worries about his own position, and Medaka has given up on being understood by Zen without speaking through their fists and bodies, but it's the potential to snap both of them out of this narrow perspective that is represented by Kikaijima's faction. Is it wrong to want everyone to be happy? Is it wrong to hope that every person could work passionately towards their dreams and their goals? Up to now, deep in his heart, Zenkichi has believed that that isn't possible. (Up until the treasure hunt arc, Akune had believed he was too guilty to deserve such an opportunity. Up to the Election Battles, Kumagawa had believed that that was a world in which the Minus could never take part.) Certainly, Medaka is now encouraging Zenkichi to become strong enough to prove to her that it isn't possible, if that's what he truly believes in. This is what her current actions seem to represent and what is making Kikaijima most upset: giving up hope on Zen ever understanding her and resorting to fists to prove who is right . However what would make Medaka truly happy, restore Zenkichi's place beside her, and eliminate the need to fight, would be if Zenkichi could come to genuinely believe that making others happy, (as well as making himself happy as he told her back when he helped Medaka II change back into herself), was for himself also a worthwhile and achievable goal. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2011-11-06 at 22:52. |
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2011-11-06, 22:40 | Link #5389 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Spoiler for Chapter 121:
Spoiler for The Stanley Parable:
I like Zen as a character, at least how I perceive him. I like Medaka as a character, at least how I perceive her. I love their relationship, this recent arc which is being more real especially making me like their relationship. There are problems there, and I love that, on both sides, and I absolutely want them to correct that. Real truth, face to face. If all Medaka can understand, if all zen can do is to fight, let them speak with their fists. It doesn't really matter that Ajimu is teaching zen how to use his fists, in the end, he's going to be doing the talking with Medaka. Some relationships break when their weak points come to light. Some develop an even better relationship. I want to see the latter. Either way, it will build more character(I don't mean make them a better person or whatever, but it will characterize them more flesh them out more) for the both of them, and even that would be delicious to read. Nishio is awesome. Last edited by Not Somebody; 2011-11-07 at 02:26. |
2011-11-07, 00:04 | Link #5390 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Zenkichi does see Medaka's ideals -- he's the one who gave them to her in the first place when he was two. He just doesn't believe in them anymore because he grew up. Also, the reason Medaka is disappointed in Zenkichi isn't because of any issues concerning ideals or what not. He was only interesting to Medaka as a Normal able to keep up with her. Ajimu shattered that "bond" by making Zenkichi an Abnormal and introducing a bunch of Normal girls who were able to outperform Zenkichi in the Treasure Hunt arc. Zenkichi just didn't measure up anymore. Of course, that changed once Zenkichi decided to become Medaka's enemy. Zenkichi isn't blameless either. He thought Medaka needed someone who would always protect her and be by her side. It's only now that he understands that Medaka never really needed someone like that, and that he was acting in a patronizing manner by assuming otherwise. And in a way, he's no different from Medaka when it comes to following a goal: to be by Medaka's side as someone special to her. Is it wrong to want to be special to someone you love (without going into creepy stalker territory of course)? Zenkichi's mistake was that he didn't understand that Medaka just doesn't get personal relationships. Thirteen years of "friendship" ultimately didn't mean anything to Medaka once Zenkichi lost what made him interesting to her. That's why Kikaijima is so upset with Medaka -- she realized that Medaka really doesn't understand peoples' hearts. Last edited by MD84; 2011-11-07 at 00:17. |
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2011-11-07, 00:29 | Link #5391 |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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No comment on the rest of it, but I'm pretty sure Medaka doesn't care in the slightest that Zenkichi now has fancy new eyes. And neither does anyone else other than Zenkichi himself.
Also, I'm not sure having an Abnormal skill makes one an Abnormal on its own. Aka was referred to as a "Skill Holder" rather than an Abnormal, and Abnormality still carries with it the implications of effortless success regardless of the particular abnormality, which obviously Zenkichi hasn't been granted, given his failure to solve the puzzle. |
2011-11-07, 00:44 | Link #5392 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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2011-11-07, 01:00 | Link #5393 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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In a way, zen has become simIlar to the way munakata was with his abnormality,
Something that is their, but a burden to their person. Munakata had the urge to kill, where zen has eyes to perceive another's world around him. Something I think most peoPle would not want as it would give you a look at persons personality which could be damaging to your own psyche (it happens with Ajimu. A glimpse in her world made him feel insignificant and disgusted) |
2011-11-07, 04:31 | Link #5394 | |
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2011-11-07, 09:19 | Link #5395 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Both him and Medaka work on their pre-established view of people in Medaka's case she assumes everyone is innocent and good and Zen simply considers people to be douchebags if he see's them being douchebags. However Medaka always seems to be able to convert these douchebags so he he eventually began to devalue his own opinion and simply accept hers as fact. This is greatly hinted at the first chapter of story. I think this at the core is the reason their relationship is the way it is. I don't think Zen randomly started praising her and accepting all her opinon's more like than not he didn't agree with her opinions at all, he just knew first hand by been proven wrong every single time just how right she is. He even states in the first chapter he knows most of all just how right she is. Hence why what he's challenging her on currently is that always being right and successful isn't neccesarily a good thing. Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2011-11-07 at 09:35. |
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2011-11-07, 09:32 | Link #5396 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Would you want to understand someone you hate? Zen hates Kumagawa because of what he done and his general personality, he lies, cheats and can basically do no wrong. But zen was mocked, beat down, and pretty much cast aside for an outburst of rage when he couldn't solve a puzzle. Kinda seems unfair even if one is everyone's fav character. The naked apron alliance believes that the SC were all good friends and on good terms, but the only ones like that were, kikaijima, meda, kuma and Akune. Again, zen hates kuma, dislikes Akune, loves medaka, and is awkward around kikaijima. Their relationship is not like friends at all. |
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2011-11-07, 09:47 | Link #5397 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe
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Because we are more or less on the speech there's something that bothers me....we know that since Najimi gave parasite eyes to Zen was all part of her plan.
So the thing that I wonder is,the only time Zen was able to use parasite eyes on Najimi Perhaps that was not a coincidence ,but this too was part of her plan? In order to weaken him psychologically for later? And perhaps what Zen saw was even a lie od Najimi or better a false vision of the world in order to strike him in the best way? I mean, if Najimi a technique to block the effect of parasite eyes who says that she does not have a technique to lying to those eyes as well? |
2011-11-07, 10:07 | Link #5398 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Somewhere
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When I think about it, he empathized with Emukae as a person, since she expressed the desire to change. While the other Minus weren't evil per say, they were fairly adamant to continue their ways. And Zenkichi's not going to force them to change if they're not willing (flaw or not is up to the person). Up until the final battle, he was still pretty antagonistic towards Kumagawa (for good reason) who wanted to win "fairly" as a minus. On the other hand, he does admittedly see things in Black-and-white at times. Kanoya wants to attack Medaka? Kick his ass! Shiranui even calls him out on this in the first chapter, as he sees the kendo guys as a lost cause. Ultimately, he's left to follow Medaka's methods since he knows they're "right" judging by the results. Quote:
Last edited by DawnEmperor; 2011-11-07 at 10:19. |
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2011-11-07, 10:36 | Link #5399 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Looked back on a few chapters, and it looks like the only ones who can bring out an emotional response from him were meda, Ajimu and zen. And does anyone remember what chapter akunes destroyer chapter was? I can't remember if meda beat down zen in that chapter for wanting to beat down Akune. |
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2011-11-07, 10:43 | Link #5400 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe
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In fact, from what I remember this Medaka action surprises even Akune. Edit:Re-reading some parts of the manga, I became increasingly convinced that Najimi choosing to use Zen for the flank plan was even before she gave parasite Eyes to him . The doubt I came to my mind thanks to Hadsone since she always seems to know everything about Zen. Just think about the being of the 13 plus arc when Akune asked Zen about the training he (Zen) and medaka have done with Meguro. Zen himself was wondering show he could know about that. Not to mention how quickly she denied to her grandfather and saying Zen is normal and her friend and , and finally herability that appears to be similar lv to the one of Aka ,Kumagawa all fiction and Zen parasite eyes .(at least from what little we know about real-eater) Just to clarify, I'm not denying that Zen and hadsone are friends. but what I mean is that maybe, Hadsone initially approached Zen on request from Najimi. Last edited by Soji; 2011-11-07 at 14:00. |
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Tags |
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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