2012-10-16, 23:11 | Link #61 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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The whole "guy does something perverted, girl slaps/punches him in response to restore the status quo" thing has been a well-known comedy routine for years, and it's not intended to be portrayed as any sort of serious danger or threat (the male character is almost always perfectly fine the next scene, or only has comedic "wounds"). I realize some people think this joke isn't funny because it seems to be glorifying violence against men, but by the same token it's almost always following a scene that glorifies the objectification of women. Given that there are no real lasting consequences, who (in the story) gets the better end of the deal? If not for the slap/kick/punch/whatever, what should be the consequence in the story for the sexual harassment or whatever that preceded? Should he be arrested? Thrown in jail? Taken to court? The story basically needs a way to show that there are consequences for improper actions that, by the same token, still allow the actions to continue anyway in some limited/controlled capacity. So this too (or something very similar) is necessary to make the harem anime story work, and to prevent the protagonist from having his way with all the women in the story without consequence. (And if you want the sort of story where the protagonist just does go around and have his way with all the women in the story, well, that would probably be porn. Most harem anime are trying more to be romantic comedies with a heavy dose of sexual fanservice.)
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2012-10-17, 02:32 | Link #62 | ||||||||
Banned
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Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I'll just stick to the OP for this discussion:
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Personally, I think Amagami answers most of the issues brought up. It has the typical harem MC, but shows how he gets close to the girls. |
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2012-10-17, 04:12 | Link #64 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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Of course, relentlessflame, context counts. But I don't think everyone would consider context when their precious waifu gets abused by a male, even if said waifu deserves it.
Anyways, since it's out of topic, I'll silence myself now.
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2012-10-17, 04:23 | Link #65 |
Banned
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Somehow i felt that creator of this thread was just throwing tantrum about his general dislike in harem story. The kind of protagonist a harem stories has is just a matter of taste. Some prefer them pervert (DxD or Sora Oto), some like them kind without any other trait that stands out (most non-action harem comedy series), some like them badass (Campione, SAO, Accel).
@backbone. I'm not being sarcastic nor offensive towards you. It's fine if you prefer strong/cool type harem protagonist (just like me), but the way you point it out (pointing all the flaws in your first post) sounds kinda skewed in my opinion. |
2012-10-17, 15:22 | Link #67 | |
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Most harem anime male leads are not incorrigible lechs that will take every opportunity to "have their way with" women. Most of the set-ups for tsundere abuse involves some sort of bizarre accident where the guy and the tsundere female somehow get tangled up in a compromising way, and/or the guy accidentally stumbles in on the tsundere female in a state of an undress. But 9 times out of 10 it is, in fact, a genuine accident (i.e. it's not a clever lech pretending to stumble into the girl's washroom when he really was trying to sneak a peek ). In some of these cases, maybe you could say that the male lead is a horribly clumsy bungler who had it coming to him, but there's also a fair number of cases where it really is an obvious, understandable accident and the guy shouldn't be punched for it. More than anything else, I think it's this slapstick comedy abuse that, if it's allowed to run for too long/too often, can make harem male leads look weak in the eyes of many viewers. Indeed, I think that part of the aim with many modern wingmen is to have them be the buttmonkey recipient of slapstick comedy abuse so that your male lead can sort of be spared the indignity of it and come out looking a little more respectable because of it. I'm with you in that I have no great desire to see a guy "hit back". On the other hand, when they start taking constant abuse from a particular character without ever bothering to defend themselves at all (Ben-To immediately comes to mind to me here), it really does start to look bad and frankly makes the guy look like a doormat for punishment (or a masochist ). tl;dr If tsunderes are going to continue to be a prominent and frequently seen part of anime, I'd like them to be more Type B than Type A.
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2012-10-17, 16:39 | Link #68 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Even I, who rather like tsundere, prefer the modern complex ones. The "smash to the stars" type and the pure linear tsun->dere can just fade into history as far as I'm concerned.
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2012-10-17, 18:39 | Link #70 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: East Asia
Age: 32
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Strong and cool protagonists with many girls fall for them are very realistic since they can protect their harem with their awesomeness. But what about weak protagonists? What's so special about them that deserve them harem? Novice and lame protagonist are outdated formula since they basically had nothing worthy of themselves. Quote:
Won't you get pissed seeing only girls are strong while the MC is a non-action guy who's really useless, beta-type person? (The reason why i dislike the kind of Sekirei and SoraOto) Won't you get bored seeing indecisive, stupid male leads whose brain completely useless when it comes to reading mood and have tendency to screw up in crucial moments? Won't you feel "skewed" if the MC is just a butt-monkey whose only function is for the sake of punching bag for the heroines? (Korezom and Love Hina play this trope in exaggerated and overly violent ways) All in all, if the MC had nothing special about him, it feels very odd and messed up if he were to get a harem. For some reason i kinda agree with you, but there's no way those statements of yours indicating that you weren't being sarcastic nor offensive towards me. |
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2012-10-17, 18:47 | Link #71 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The main selling point for harem series (and bishoujo games) are the female heroines. |
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2012-10-17, 18:49 | Link #72 | |||
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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Again, comedy. Someone has to take the fall for comedy to work, and the girls often become the butt of jokes in just as many ways, sometimes involving slapstick as well. |
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2012-10-17, 19:14 | Link #73 |
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Backbone - Somebody might have already mentioned this in this thread, and I just didn't notice it, but you really should check out Sword Art Online.
Kirito is basically exactly the guy you've been looking for, dude. By extension, maybe you have a point, Backbone, given Sword Art Online's popularity. Maybe there's a real hunger out there for a harem anime male lead that's genuinely cool and/or badass.
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2012-10-17, 19:21 | Link #74 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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the wimpy mchl is why i don't watch harem shows these days.
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2012-10-17, 19:24 | Link #75 | |
We're Back
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Age: 35
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2012-10-17, 20:19 | Link #76 | |
Shitpost Gremlin
Join Date: Jun 2006
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2012-10-17, 20:28 | Link #77 | ||
Banned
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Location: Cairo, Egypt
Age: 28
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Anyway, i'm out of this thread. The topics grew too ridiculous and annoying for me. |
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2012-10-17, 20:39 | Link #78 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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As for "we" want, we "the foreigners" are usually not included in the target audience for harem animes in japan. Some series with these socalled "uninteresting" MC's actually sold very well. Why would the producers change their formula? Also most of the harem series these days originate from popular light novels. So these animes try to satisfy the japanese otaku's (and i doubt that they are "alpha males") and not "us" Coincidently, your post gave me an opportunity to use another saved image from a recent eroge that i read. I don't mind being treated as a doormat in some cases. As such, i am pretty sure there are more people like myself who are M to certain type of heroines (tsunderes, kuuderes, etc) Last edited by hyl; 2012-10-17 at 20:51. |
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2012-10-17, 21:48 | Link #79 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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sometimes in real life, guys ARE that way!! So when a girl character is giving him every single sign that says "these are my feelings for you, please notice me!" and his response is "Duh?" I feel this is so true to life that you can't get angry with it. There was a guy I liked who wouldn't stop talking about the girl he was dating around me. He had no clue I liked him too. I was jealous. I gave every sign that I was jealous without coming out and saying the exact words. He still didn't get it!! I had to say it to his face! BAKAAAAAAAA (>口<) Chiibi was feeling very much like a tsundere love interest stuck in a rom-com anime that day.....(=へ=)
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2012-10-17, 22:08 | Link #80 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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It was only slight less true, she wacked me with a physic textbook and demanded me stop talking about the blonde in our history class who would never give me the time of the day, and she, the 5'7" girl from China, have been making me dinner 4 times a week. |
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