2012-11-06, 11:17 | Link #2161 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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The EC's greatest flaw is that it randomly grants citizens of half a dozen states the power to decide the election, while everyone else gets ignored. A citizen of Ohio has literally more than 20 times the voting rights of a Texan or a New Yorker. Is that what you call a Plus?
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2012-11-06, 11:27 | Link #2162 | |
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2012-11-06, 11:29 | Link #2163 |
Hiding Under Your Bed
Join Date: May 2008
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The only good thing about election day in America is if you're one of those lucky individuals who gets the day off (I am ).
While stupid people buying into democracy as a form of government doesn't bug me, I don't think I'll ever get over seemingly intelligent people who actually think the system (at the national level at least), is anything more than a pressure-relief valve for controlling a society. And, when I have otherwise intelligent friends get engrossed in this back and forth between Obama and Romney, I just shake my head. At least in the past, once elections were over, I could regain my rational friends for a few years, but increasingly with the 24/7 news cycle, it's becoming a neverending election, even after a person "wins", and good friends continue their pointless back and forth non-stop stick-it-to-'em soundbites, without a break from one election day through the next. In so many ways I find the early promise of the internet that we all had in the early 90s as this vehicle for bringing the world together has done exactly the opposite. When we were generally isolated to our immediate communities, we compromised to peacefully co-exist with each other, but today's online global community made it much easier to find people with one's views, and compromise went out the window, as people have little incentive to try to work things out with billions of other people available to choose from to act as their perfect sounding board if any particular person happens to inconveniently fit one's quaint views on the world. Partisanship, not just in politics, is the dark underbelly of the increasingly online society of today. Oh well. The weather looks great today. Taking my two nieces to the beach (their parents unfortunately do NOT have the day off, heh), where I'll continue to educate them in the proper way to grill steaks and body-surf; far more important issues than which idiot becomes the next hand-puppet in chief.
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2012-11-06, 11:34 | Link #2164 | |
Banned
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In any case I basically agree that our culture has metaphorically and perhaps literally taken a dump in the last 12 years. There used to be at least some charm and sense of dignity to western civilization, but not really anymore. Now it's just big loud and obnoxious and all about assaulting and insulting you with bad ideas be it our entertainment industry, our information industry, our politicians, everything about our society just feels disingenuous and misguided these days from the top almost completely to the way down where we can maybe find some solace in the company of friends and family. This is an election thread though so I'll best leave it at that. |
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2012-11-06, 11:50 | Link #2165 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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That being said, here are several things to take into account. Remember, the US is not one homogenous nation-state, it is a federation of states, and the EC system is borne out of that, as it helps to make sure that smaller states do not become irrelevant, and that the candidates have to at least attempt (or pretend) to care about their interests. If you remove the EC, all that's going to change is that urban centers in states with large populations will get all the attention. It's certainly not a system without flaws, but it also wasn't something someone just pulled out of their arse either. Don't try to be condescending/smug/holier-than-thou or anything |
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2012-11-06, 11:55 | Link #2166 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Here, this is a picture of real America. Note that if your State is not visible then you don't have any voting rights.
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2012-11-06, 12:07 | Link #2167 | |
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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You realize you're claiming that literally people in 38 states do not vote or cannot vote? based on $$ value of advertisement spending no less? Do you really want to go there? Look, no one is saying the EC system is without flaws, but please turn off the reality distortion field, it doesn't really help you make your case any better. A good place to start would be, say, actually giving some sort of supporting arguments based on logic that refutes my points, instead of an outright dismissal that also claims I'm apparently unable to see reality. Unless you're just looking to pick a fight. |
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2012-11-06, 12:15 | Link #2168 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 37
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And that image says that Californians can't vote even though whichever candidate they support is automatically about 20 percent of the way towards becoming president. lol @ that |
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2012-11-06, 12:17 | Link #2169 | ||
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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But that's not one person, one vote. And it does not protect small states that are safe states, or make large states less powerful. All it does is to empower swing states, which is not related to population size and is in no way related to spreading electoral attention. If the goal of EC is to spread political influence across the country, it failed. Because the math made it clear that swing state votes are worth 20 times more than safe state votes. If you really want to have truly fair representation nation wide, then popular vote is still the best way. Sure, smaller states would have less votes, but they would also be cheaper to influence. Promising a million dollars to Alaska would help the people there more than promising a million dollars to Texas, as Alaskans get a larger share of the money per person. Quote:
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2012-11-06, 12:24 | Link #2171 |
Nyaaan~~
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 41
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Re: Above -- C'mon guys, personal.
Major TV News Networks Agree To Shield Early Exit Poll Data On Election Day http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2081523.html |
2012-11-06, 12:25 | Link #2172 | |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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It is bunk anyway, but the "its wrong becaus of leap year" is incorrect bcause those that assigned a date to "the End of the World" simply figured out which day that was based on the sun ups and sun downs.
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2012-11-06, 12:30 | Link #2174 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 35
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Maybe the economy is something which governments have far less effect on than most people think they should, but even then a nation's tax code and regulations are always a factor. Or maybe if you vote in enough of the socialists (don't look for them in America, though) you may actually get a real transformation of how things work for better or, probably, worse. Maybe Obama is not anti-corporatist enough for you (hell, he's a center-right candidate for all I see), maybe the Democrats are pissing you off with their continual allegiance to Hollywood and the MAFIAA. Or maybe it's the other way around and you think the Republicans aren't doing enough tearing off the government, maybe you think "they're all the same" and certain Washington truisms will never be challenged from within however much you want to see that happening, lobbyists thrown to the dogs or something, well fair enough. But please don't think you're being superior by not voting. Your protest is heeded by no one. If you're sick enough of the system, vote for some third party candidate, then object, revolt, resist, whatever you need to do, or yes, just give up. Most people do. Quote:
______ Anyway, since I'm a Nevadan, supposedly my vote counts. I'm off to do my share, I guess. :/ |
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2012-11-06, 12:41 | Link #2175 | |||
Meh
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Like it or not, the US is not a direct democracy, and the EC system is one of the layers of protection against tyranny of the majority, in this case the ability of larger states/specific region's interest to completely dominate others. Quote:
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Look, let me reiterate this again, I'm not saying the EC system is perfect, because it isn't, all I'm saying that it was designed for specific reason and purposes, and that a popular vote system also have its flaws as well, though I wouldn't object if switch to it either. Weren't you supposed to be dead since last year already? dead people can't argue! |
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2012-11-06, 12:47 | Link #2176 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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Cycles are for repeating, not ending.
The Native Amerincans say the Mayan cycles would bring a big change, but the cycle would start over. As for the Electoral College. Remember that when it was made, there were still many states that did not choose the President by popular vote at all. The Electorate were picked by the State Government (usually the state legislature) and they picked the President. The popular vote might have influenced them, but I doubt it. (In the Election of 1832 you can see South Carolina give 11 electoral votes to someone that wasn't even running for President)
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2012-11-06, 12:59 | Link #2178 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Just for amusement, those who have a NicoNico Account and know the language can watch the Japanese talk about the POTUS election Live.
http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv113...p&zroute=index
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