[Spoilers] Kid younger than pre-skip Naruto Stronger than Kakashi?

[s-class uchiha]

I just reread the Zabuza arc b/c I forgot what all the "hoohaw" about him was...

But I forgot that during that time Kakashi told Naruto that there are some kids younger than him that are also stronger than him. This was right after Haku shows up as ANBU to take away Zabuza and Naruto is frustrated that there was a kid stronger than him.

Have we seen anyone at that level in the series? I don't think Itachi applies b/c at an age younger than Naruto it would be questionable if he was stronger than Kakashi or not. Kakashi makes it sound as if there are kids for sure stronger than him. Btw, If someone says Sai, i will kill myself ...

Anyways, the point was not to start another Itachi Fanboy thread, just wanted to hear your take on this.

[Zek]

I also don't believe that 12-year-old Itachi was stronger than pre-timeskip Kakashi, but I imagine that's who he was thinking of when he said it. Or maybe he was just trying to make a point. In any case, Itachi is probably the strongest ninja at that age that we know of in the series, so if it's not him then there's nobody else we've seen.

[degeros]

Kakashi's statement doesn't necessarily have to be taken at face value. He could just be talking in general and trying to calm Naruto down.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Itachi at age of 11 was stronger than Orochimaru, and Kakashi was clearly weaker than Oro. When Kakashi said that I was wondering why would Kishimoto give him such words, but now we know that from the beginning of the story (when Sasuke is introduced and says he wants to kill someone) there was one stronger. And Kakashi had to know about Itachi's power because he had inside klowledge on Uchiha having that eye, and he has shown that knowledge when he said Kurenai and Asuma to close their eyes before Itachi showed us his MS.

[MysticNinjaJay]

I certainly believe Itachi could have been stronger than Kakashi was during the Zabuza arc.

The guy was an ANBU captain and ranked an unprecedented genius of a genius clan who ended up single handidly (as far as we know) slaying the members of that clan.

What I found disturbing about the Zabuza arc was the idea that Haku was stronger than Kakashi.

Now Kakashi's statement to Naruto about the posssibilty of ninjas being as young as Naruto and stronger than Kakashi himself does not mean he was acknowledging Haku is stronger then him.

It's comments like Sakura stating as a fact that Haku is 'better' than Kakashi and Zabuza when revealing that Haku had an advanced bloodline stated as an additional point that Kakashi could not defeat Haku that give this idea credence.

It just doesn't make sense. How could Haku be a better ninja than Kakashi when Sasuke at the very least was developing a counter strategy to his jutsu?

Granted haku was toying with him but he did manage to burn him and save Naruto while protecting his vital spots. Sasuke was just learning how to use Sharingan, Kakashi has alot of experience with it and a wealth of experience in battle in general, he is an elite jounin.

I think Haku's abilities, while impressive were greatly exaggerated.

Maybe an unprecedented genius like Itachi was stronger than Kakashi at that age, or even a Sannin like Orochimaru.

Kakashi is a very powerful ninja, if there were adolescents who were above his ability I'm sure they were rare.

[malvado]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

I certainly believe Itachi could have been stronger than Kakashi was during the Zabuza arc.

The guy was an ANBU captain and ranked an unprecedented genius of a genius clan who ended up single handidly (as far as we know) slaying the members of that clan.

What I found disturbing about the Zabuza arc was the idea that Haku was stronger than Kakashi.

Now Kakashi's statement to Naruto about the posssibilty of ninjas being as young as Naruto and stronger than Kakashi himself does not mean he was acknowledging Haku is stronger then him.

It's comments like Sakura stating as a fact that Haku is 'better' than Kakashi and Zabuza when revealing that Haku had an advanced bloodline stated as an additional point that Kakashi could not defeat Haku that give this idea credence.

It just doesn't make sense. How could Haku be a better ninja than Kakashi when Sasuke at the very least was developing a counter strategy to his jutsu?

Granted haku was toying with him but he did manage to burn him and save Naruto while protecting his vital spots. Sasuke was just learning how to use Sharingan, Kakashi has alot of experience with it and a wealth of experience in battle in general, he is an elite jounin.

I think Haku's abilities, while impressive were greatly exaggerated.

Maybe an unprecedented genius like Itachi was stronger than Kakashi at that age, or even a Sannin like Orochimaru.

Kakashi is a very powerful ninja, if there were adolescents who were above his ability I'm sure they were rare.

All sannins/Hokages with the exception of Jiraiya were above Kakashi at Sasukes age. Ando so were Itachi, Sasori and probably Sai.

[MysticNinjaJay]

- as an aside- For Sai to be stronger than all ninja in the village his age (e.g. above Neji, Lee, Shino, Naruto, Kiba etc.), I do expect alot from him. So far his drawings,, though creative, strength wise are not that impressive.

I like the fact that Kishimoto introduced new blood into the series, new characters for a new arc are always refreshing.

That being said I agree, I can't imagine a Naruto style clutz like genin Jiraiya being stronger than Kakashi.

You know it's funny, supposedly Kaakshi became a Chunin at age 8(?) whereas the Sannin at Team 7's age were taking the bell test?

That's strange. Maybe Kakashi's era being during a time of war had something to do with his advancements, perhaps they needed to push geniuses to their limits, even at an early age.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Itachi at age of 11 was stronger than Orochimaru

Originally Posted by malvado

All sannins/Hokages with the exception of Jiraiya were above Kakashi at Sasukes age. Ando so were Itachi, Sasori and probably Sai.

Where did you guys get that info?

last i remember hearing was that Itachi was only a chunin at 10(vs kakashi's age of 6)... don't see how he could have gotten to be high level jounin in just one year... jounin maybe, but higher then kakashi?
I'd imagine, that since he lead Anbu at 13, then it was probably about that age that he reach kakashi's level... still very young, but not younger then Naruto...
Also, I don't recall hearing that the confrontation between Ochimaru and Itachi happened when he was 11...

As for the sannins and hokages... thats the first time i heard any of that.. (not saying it ain't possible, just that i never heard they that they were atleast Kakashi's level by the age of 11)
Especially for Sandiame, who didn't even graduate till he was 12...

IMO, Kakashi's words are not of face value... but considering how strong some ninjas have become and how quickly they have progressed... though rare, it wouldn't surprise Kakashi if someone was that strong at that young... hell, if Itachi wasn't stronger then Kakashi at 11, then he atleast came somewhat close to it... and all the sannins were known to progress at a similiar rate... so hearing they were stronger wouldn't be too mcuh of a surprise either... though the only thing i know for sure is their graduation age was 6...

[Dionysus]

in the Zabuza arc, he only stated that there 'are' younger ninja than Naruto and stronger than Kakashi, He didn't entirely imply he meant haku in general.

I haven't seen Sai battle yet so i'm not to sure of his real abilitys so i have no comment i'll wait.

As for Itachi the ability to slay the entire Uchiha clan i think is far beyond Kakashi's ability in my view, Orochimaru did admit that Itachi was stronger than him then, and probably still remains unless Orochimaru gets his own Sharingan from Sasuke, Because thats what Orochimaru fears from him the most

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Where did you guys get that info?

last i remember hearing was that Itachi was only a chunin at 10(vs kakashi's age of 6)... don't see how he could have gotten to be high level jounin in just one year... jounin maybe, but higher then kakashi?
I'd imagine, that since he lead Anbu at 13, then it was probably about that age that he reach kakashi's level... still very young, but not younger then Naruto...
Also, I don't recall hearing that the confrontation between Ochimaru and Itachi happened when he was 11...

As for the sannins and hokages... thats the first time i heard any of that.. (not saying it ain't possible, just that i never heard they that they were atleast Kakashi's level by the age of 11)
Especially for Sandiame, who didn't even graduate till he was 12...

In the case of Itachi, He was indeed stronger than Orochimaru at age 11, Orochimaru Left Akatsuki because of Itachi, and Pre time skip, 7 years had passed since Oro left Akatsuki, making Itachi, 10 1/2 or 11 Years old, don't recall the exact age.

Regarding the Sannins and Hokage no particular information is certain about their strength at Naruto's age, Malvado just posted his opinion, which could be possible.

Going to Kakashi Quote, I think when he said it he was not thinking of a particular person, he just said something that can happen, Someone that can be as young as Naruto, but can be as strong as Kakashi, this is a global term, It just an example Using Naruto age and Kakashi level as refference.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

As for Itachi the ability to slay the entire Uchiha clan i think is far beyond Kakashi's ability in my view, Orochimaru did admit that Itachi was stronger than him then, and probably still remains unless Orochimaru gets his own Sharingan from Sasuke, Because thats what Orochimaru fears from him the most

Well technically that happened at the age of 13... not younger then Naruto...
Also, weather or not kakashi had the strength to kill and entire clan in the middle of the night, depends on the strength of the clan... can't be certain, but he might be able to do it... If i had to guess, i would say Itachi took the strongest members by surprise... thus making his job easier... i think Kakashi might be strong enough to the same... but that's all speculation

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

In the case of Itachi, He was indeed stronger than Orochimaru at age 11, Orochimaru Left Akatsuki because of Itachi, and Pre time skip, 7 years had passed since Oro left Akatsuki, making Itachi, 10 1/2 or 11 Years old, don't recall the exact age.

Ah... i though he was older...
... i was kinda under the impression that Itachi didn't join akatsuki till after he slaughtered his clan.... so atleast 13... Do you happen to remember when about that it's said in the manga that Oro left 7 years earlier?

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Ah... i though he was older...
... i was kinda under the impression that Itachi didn't join akatsuki till after he slaughtered his clan.... so atleast 13... Do you happen to remember when about that it's said in the manga that Oro left 7 years earlier?

I can't recall exactly, And I'm too lazy to look to it but if im not mistaken is a conbination of varius peaces in the whole manga: the time when Akatsuki was presented in their cave for the first time, the conversation Jiraya had talking with Kakashi

Spoiler:

When Deidara traped Gaara and When they Begun to Extract Shukaku

*Can someone give an Acurate chapter?*

Well technically that happened at the age of 13... not younger then Naruto...
Also, weather or not kakashi had the strength to kill and entire clan in the middle of the night, depends on the strength of the clan... can't be certain, but he might be able to do it... If i had to guess, i would say Itachi took the strongest members by surprise... thus making his job easier... i think Kakashi might be strong enough to the same... but that's all speculation

Well, this is not correct, Itachi was testing his capacity, how the heck he was going to test his capacity if he just ambushed the strongest clan members, it was also not in the middle of the nights as Sasuke mentioned, at the hour he arrived he found strange that the section where the clan was located was deserted and the lights where off, this means he was expecting a more lively Uchiha Clan, not to mention that Uchiha Was the police force, so police Uhichas where very much awake and doing their job, that was exactly to stop things like the one made by Itachi. And Add this to the fact that Itachi with only 11 Years could take one 3 Police Uchiha’s with fully developed Sharingan in a blink, imagine what he could do at 13.

Regarding Kakashi, I really doubt he can take the whole Uchiha Clan by Himself, we are talking about the elite of Konoha, Kakashi can very well be stronger than most of the Uhchiha’s but He alone does not even has the stamina to take a clan of at least 20 Sharingan users.

[pathyfinder]

Originally Posted by ShurikenJay

.....Maybe an unprecedented genius like Itachi was stronger than Kakashi at that age, or even a Sannin like Orochimaru.

Kakashi is a very powerful ninja, if there were adolescents who were above his ability I'm sure they were rare.

Kakashi must of had perhaps one person in mind when he said this however, I do believe it was said more for Naruto's benifit then for our information.

Oh, man! I just had a flashback to Oro when he took off his "old oro face" while fighting the Hokage ......*shivers*when he had the girly looking body/face! Crap, now "that" picture I think it was Slade-san who posted a photo of MJ ....*shivers*

*thinks of Kakashi*

Ok, better now

Hey did Kakshi and Kabuto ever like "work" together when they were younger?

[astayanax]

Itachi took noone by surprise for this simple reason - he wanted to prove his existence on him being the best. Taking out people cheaply goes against this. Also he left Sasuke alive because in his eyes, the other Uchihas simply weren't at his level and he saw potential in Sasuke that will let him have the challenge he desired. It would had been no different from someone like Orochimaru or the 4th just devastating the clan either.

All of this is speculation though as I still think there is more to the Uchiha massacure than what is being let on.

I doubt Kabuto and Kakashi worked together as well:

- Kabuto is like half Kakashi age
- Kabuto was pretending to be a fool while Kakashi was proclaimed as one of the best geniuses
- Kabuto had to keep to himself to do his spying in secret while Kakashi was so famous, he was pretty wide open
- Kabuto knows just about everything about Kakashi yet Kakashi knew squat about Kabuto.

[Nubixkube]

Incase you haven't killed yourself yet, Sai.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

Well, this is not correct, Itachi was testing his capacity, how the heck he was going to test his capacity if he just ambushed the strongest clan members, it was also not in the middle of the nights as Sasuke mentioned, at the hour he arrived he found strange that the section where the clan was located was deserted and the lights where off, this means he was expecting a more lively Uchiha Clan, not to mention that Uchiha Was the police force, so police Uhichas where very much awake and doing their job, that was exactly to stop things like the one made by Itachi. And Add this to the fact that Itachi with only 11 Years could take one 3 Police Uchiha’s with fully developed Sharingan in a blink, imagine what he could do at 13.

Regarding Kakashi, I really doubt he can take the whole Uchiha Clan by Himself, we are talking about the elite of Konoha, Kakashi can very well be stronger than most of the Uhchiha’s but He alone does not even has the stamina to take a clan of at least 20 Sharingan users.

Ya, that's probably mostly true... guess i just wasn't thinking
Now that i take a moment to think about it i can see ho Itachi could have killed his entire clan and remained unscathed... more then likely he didn't use his raw abilities, cause i doubt that he was THAT strong... sure he used his raw skills to kill of the weaker members, from non-ninja up to Chunin and what-not, but my guess is that for the jounins of his clan, he made full use and Abuse of his MS, doing to them the same thing he did to Kakashi... especially since in seems as though the Sharigan seems to be weak against the MS... during their first fight, Kakashi was unable to stop looking at Itachi with his Sharigan eye... i mean, i honestly can't see how anyone could have wiped out the clan at that young of an age... not without taking their fair share of damage atleast

Not to mention it does kinda make me wonder how Itachi managed to slay his entire clan without the rest of Kohona realizing it was happening

y'know, this kinda reminds me of how i want to see Kakashi use more various jutsus... i mean, he's the copy cat ninja who is rumored to have copied over 1000 jutsus... and yet, we rarely see anything out of the ordinary from him...

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

I can't recall exactly, And I'm too lazy to look to it but if im not mistaken is a conbination of varius peaces in the whole manga: the time when Akatsuki was presented in their cave for the first time, the conversation Jiraya had talking with Kakashi


*Can someone give an Acurate chapter?*

Most appreciated, thanks

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Ya, that's probably mostly true... guess i just wasn't thinking
Now that i take a moment to think about it i can see ho Itachi could have killed his entire clan and remained unscathed... more then likely he didn't use his raw abilities, cause i doubt that he was THAT strong... sure he used his raw skills to kill of the weaker members, from non-ninja up to Chunin and what-not, but my guess is that for the jounins of his clan, he made full use and Abuse of his MS, doing to them the same thing he did to Kakashi... especially since in seems as though the Sharigan seems to be weak against the MS... during their first fight, Kakashi was unable to stop looking at Itachi with his Sharigan eye... i mean, i honestly can't see how anyone could have wiped out the clan at that young of an age... not without taking their fair share of damage atleast

Well, Yeah, that’s a good observation, He was as good as new after the massacre, no doubt he used the MS, but given that moment, I doubt he used more than 2 times against the Uchiha (maybe that’s more than Enough).

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Not to mention it does kinda make me wonder how Itachi managed to slay his entire clan without the rest of Kohona realizing it was happening

They only logical explanation of this is that each clan, including the Uchiha's are located in a not too centric part of the village, not to mention that noble clans tend to seclude themselves from society, So I would not be surprised that this is the case.

[astayanax]

Not to mention that Itachi is also a master MS user that controls space and time. For all we know, he has some time freezing jutsu that affects everyone or teleport everyone to another dimension, kill them and teleport them back etc.

Also, we did see him knock out 3 master sharingan users in an instant; so there is the possibilities that he was doing fights so fast that noone got a chance to call for help.

[Dionysus]

Lets not forget Itachi's MG is a Genjutsu when Itachi went for Naruto for the 1st time but was Interrupted by Jiraya and Sasuke,

Itachi battled both Kakashi and Sasuke he used MG to put them into a unconcious state of deep illusion, he possibly used it again'st the advanced Uchiha members inorder to test it out which would probably explain why he was left unscratched, Probably didn't waste the Chakra on the Weaker Genin he was already and Super Genius of the Uchiha as stated by his Father and Other Shinobi,

so he shouldn't of had a problem again'st Sharingan he knew how they worked everyway even beyond normal Uchiha, they wouldn't poss a threat to him

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

Lets not forget Itachi's MG is a Genjutsu when Itachi went for Naruto for the 1st time but was Interrupted by Jiraya and Sasuke,

Itachi battled both Kakashi and Sasuke he used MG to put them into a unconcious state of deep illusion, he possibly used it again'st the advanced Uchiha members inorder to test it out which would probably explain why he was left unscratched, Probably didn't waste the Chakra on the Weaker Genin he was already and Super Genius of the Uchiha as stated by his Father and Other Shinobi,

so he shouldn't of had a problem again'st Sharingan he knew how they worked everyway even beyond normal Uchiha, they wouldn't poss a threat to him

This would be true if there were only 2 advanced Uchiha’s, (please remember that Itachi did MS to Sasuke and after this turn off the Sharingan) by this moment we don’t know if MS can affect more than one person, and lets get this straight, Itachi killed an entire police force, we are talking about at least 20 or 25 high level Uchiha’s.