Stuttery problems ShinTabi- Hanbun- (high frame rate?) help!

[shinta617]

we are having some problems regarading the encoding. I used aegis subs for the subtitle then i used virtual dub for encoding and redering, we didnt have any problems in the first episde besides the typo errors, we used the same compressor as the raw, and it was okay, but in episode 2, when we used the same compressor, it took to long to render, and it was very stuttery, we always used gabest video filter for the aegis sub file (25 fprs option), so we decided to use DIVX format, it was okay in our pc but some users can't watch it, we are very sorry for this, then we released version 2 and used XVID format.. it was a little better but still stuttery, we are verry sorry. I just want to ask the Pros if we are using the wrong software, and what formats to use.. we are not yet very familiar with the software, and we didn't encounter frame problems when we sub kage kara mamoru and how to solve the frame problems. thank you very much. we will try to do better in the next released.

[Enragin_Angel]

Open the file in virtualdub and click File->File Information

Most likely, your raw was pseudo 120fps and you didn't cut the framerate down to what it was really supposed to be.

[RaistlinMajere]

E_A probably has the idea. From your post, I assume you don't use AVISynth, so IF it is 120FPS, you'll want to (in Vdub) go to Filters - Frame Rate and decimate (the middle group box, NOT the top) by 4 if it's 29.97FPS (every 4 frames are the same) or 5 if it's 23.976FPS (every 5 frames are the same)

[Nicholi]

Originally Posted by RaistlinMajere

E_A probably has the idea. From your post, I assume you don't use AVISynth, so IF it is 120FPS, you'll want to (in Vdub) go to Filters - Frame Rate and decimate (the middle group box, NOT the top) by 4 if it's 29.97FPS (every 4 frames are the same) or 5 if it's 23.976FPS (every 5 frames are the same)

Though I don't delve into RAWs myself I would hope the capper only used 120fps because the video was in fact VFR, likely both 24 and 30 fps ranges. More then likely you should be going straight to 23.976 and then only your 30fps ranges will suffer, unless the majority of the show is 30fps you should do the opposite. Follow the directions RaistlinMajere wrote about locating which is which. I find it very unlikely the entire show is one or the other though, or we can just blame stupid cappers.

@shinta617
I suggest you get your encoder (or if it is you) more familiar with basic video operations like IVTC (inverse telecine, part of what you are trying to perform) which will greatly improve his/her understanding of what they are doing. At which point you also won't be forced to use VDub's horrible decimation strategy and can enter the holy land of AviSynth. Of which there is much fun to partake and learn.

Edited: I hope no one read the backwards madness I wrote. I was thinking of DVD IVTC.

[shinta617]

oh okay, so what do you guys prefer? the 24 fps or the 29? if We used the avisynth, where can we set the settings for the frames?

thanks guys, well try to use the avisynth, and if we encounter problems, we'll just ask you guys, lol. but really, thanks a lot!

[Nicholi]

It is not what to prefer, more so what most of the video is. If most of the video is 24fps you should decimate down to 24fps. In this case the parts of the video which are 30fps will be jerky because they are missing frames. However if most of the video is 30fps and you decimate down to that, the 24fps parts will simply contain extra duplicates and will have a sort of lagged motion to them. The ideal and best solution is to use a container which can handle such Variable Framerate (VFR) content, such as MKV. Then you don't have to choose one framerate or the other and get to keep all the motion.

So you have to decimate down to what most of the video is, which is likely 23.976. Few shows are full 29.970fps but there are some. Also I think RaistlinMajere has the way to detect the framerate incorrect in 120fps. My fellow cohort TheFluff decided to confuse me and make me edit my post and run off. I believe it should be to locate 23.976fps (24fps) you look for 4 duplicates at a time, in a pan or something else full motion. To find 29.970fps (30fps) you look for 3 duplicates at a time.

I also drew this nifty picture just as a thought experiment as to how it works and because of TheFluff deciding to confuse me with random banter. O' Master of Past and Present let me know if you think I have it all backwards as well. Though I'm pretty sure this explains it outright.

[shinta617]

yeap it does explains it all, the picture really helped a lot! thanks! guess i should have change the frame rate of hanbun.. im sorry people, it was fine on our pc so we didn't know... we just read from the forums that some other guys cant play it.. we will change it so everybody can watch and enjoy..

thank you for those who posted!

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Nicholi

So you have to decimate down to what most of the video is, which is likely 23.976. Few shows are full 29.970fps but there are some. Also I think RaistlinMajere has the way to detect the framerate incorrect in 120fps. My fellow cohort TheFluff decided to confuse me and make me edit my post and run off. I believe it should be to locate 23.976fps (24fps) you look for 4 duplicates at a time, in a pan or something else full motion. To find 29.970fps (30fps) you look for 3 duplicates at a time.

Uh. 119.88 / 4 = 29.97. If you look at a sequence of frames that's originally 29.97fps and duplicated to 119.88, it will look like this:
AAAABBBBCCCCDDDD...
Where A, B, C, and D are the same original frame. What Nicholi means is that you see one "new" frame and three "duplicates" of it, repeating in a cycle. This is correct, but slightly confusing, since what RaistlinMajere (and I myself) meant was that you see the same frame 4 times, hence 4 "duplicates". For 23.976 (119.88 / 5), you obviously see
AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDD...
Which, by Nicholi's count is one new frame and 4 duplicates of it, but by mine and Raists', just 5 duplicates, or 5 identical frames.

Nicholi's way of counting makes more sense if you open a 120fps raw directly in VirtualDub, since then you see a "[D]" at the bottom near the timestamp for every duplicated frame (strictly speaking, the ones that get marked are the null frames). That way you can count the D's and get the number of duplicates.

One useful tool if you're planning to go VFR is tritical's avi2tc tool, which can take a 120fps raw and give you a new .avi with all the duplicates removed, and a MKV timecodes file.

[SirCanealot]

I'd advise you find a proper encoder. Dealing with 120fps when you don't have a clue what you're doing can be rather... annoying. Even dealing with it when you're in full control of what you are doing can be doing annoying (especially when dealing with idiots like me who randomly get dyslexic :P).

Well, just my 2 cents... video quality will improve immensely with proper AVS filtering, and it's not like encoders are that hard to come by (I'm not doing anything right now, but that's because I don't have a huge amount of time right now :P)

[Ijuki]

Even easier in this case, get new raws... That will make it "A LOT" easier if you do not want to deal with the 120 fps raws.

[DryFire]

Hmm most of the larger hantsuki raws tend to be 120fps or really ugly (or both) from what I've seen though i haven't been raw hunting, it's just what I'm told

[shinta617]

i see.. ill just try saiyanman's raw.. what We used was l33t's raw, if there just the same, ill just follow what the guys posterd

[Ijuki]

Originally Posted by shinta617

i see.. ill just try saiyanman's raw.. what We used was l33t's raw, if there just the same, ill just follow what the guys posterd

What the.... ? Seriously, you are using a raw group's raw ? You should consider to get a raw provider, as there are ... like 9 cappers on this show. Not to mention those 24 fps x264 640 x 360 raws... :P

[shinta617]

yeap, we get it from l33t,, i isee.. but we can't afford getting a raw provider.. we don't have any connection and we just enjoy subbing..
can you post the link where to get rawS?

[Ijuki]

Originally Posted by shinta617

yeap, we get it from l33t,, i isee.. but we can't afford getting a raw provider.. we don't have any connection and we just enjoy subbing..
can you post the link where to get rawS?

I think it is not allowed here on the forum, so I suggest you post an ad in the AnimeSuki's Fansub Help Wanted Classifieds thread, looking for a raw provider.

I can't help you more than that.

[shinta617]

thanks a lot!! ill check that..