Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Are they specifically targeting Gargantia? It could be, but at the start of the episode we were told that they were going to get close to the sea of mist by their own.

The explanation for them being chosen as the first target could be as simple as the fact that they happen to be the closest large fleet on the area.

Yeah, that's a pretty good point as well . But Kugel did state that this was a large-scale missionary mission he'd been planning for a while. Their proximity is probably helpful, but it seems like Gargantia has been a target for some time.

Also want to say in regard to the Striker or Kugel debate, it is a bit suspicious that someone who's commenting about health issues has yet to be seen wearing his helmet. Ledo is always throwing that thing on when piloting Chamber. I know he's living in there, but would he just go casual at the same time?

[Endless Soul]

Zod, I really detest the "Join our religion or die" attitude the new people have. And what the hell was going on with those people wrapped in white while others were just standing around smiling at them? Human sacrifices? Are they deemed unfit and fated to be disposed of like Ledo's brother?

On another note, I really enjoyed the background music in this episode. It really helped to set that creepy vibe.

Lastly, I'm glad Melty is still safe.

Endless "Take your religion and shove it" Soul

[Jan-Poo]

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At fist I thought that it was a rat, but it looks like Grace isn't the last of her species.
I wonder if this has some relevance

[monir]

Originally Posted by Endless Soul

Zod, I really detest the "Join our religion or die" attitude the new people have. And what the hell was going on with those people wrapped in white while others were just standing around smiling at them? Human sacrifices? Are they deemed unfit and fated to be disposed of like Ledo's brother?

Or could it be possible programming taking place so they can appear as the happy looking people who are staring away?

[Endless Soul]

Originally Posted by monir

Or could it be possible programming taking place so they can appear as the happy looking people who are staring away?

Ahh yes, that's a good thought.

Endless "Re-programmed" Soul

[rocket]

Much better than last episode... was on the edge of my seat. Lots of tension, can't wait to see how the cord snaps!

Ok, so holograms are fishy, I wonder if Kugel also discovered the truth about the whalesquids and didn't take it quite so casually...

In any case it seems that we're now being treated to more Gen patented ultra despair - the squidies have given up humanity to become literal animals, oh and the humans have given up their humanity to become amoral figurative animals.

I suspect that Kugel is dead, because otherwise I can't see Chamber supporting Ledo's inevitable mutiny.

On the other hand, perhaps Pirate Queen and Pinion will play some role in re-programming Chamber. Yeah, for me Pirate Queen is clearly reprising the classic Nadia role - this show recalls Nadia so badly that it's a little tooth-aching at times. Pinion could've come from the Grandis Gang, and I can't imagine why they wrote in the Doctor's loli (and gave her a spot in the OP) unless it's to recall Marie.

So yes, I'm not sure how, but Pinion and Pirate Queen (with cute sidekicks to boot) will inevitably be redeemed - though perhaps Gen will allow them all to add to the body count.

In the end I predict Ledo and Amy surviving (new happy Gen), and Chamber being the noble sacrifice for humanity's third way (in coexistence with the native squidies).

Originally Posted by Triple_R

However, I think that we shouldn't lose sight of the core ideology driving what's going on here. This is a harsh, arguably dehumanizing order that now garbs itself in religion instead of in science, but the core ideological issues remain the same. This is about the ways of the GU trying to impose themselves on the Earth of Gargantia.

Yes, cult GA and brave new GA should be seen with the same revulsion... *shudder* levers of flaming flamyness indeed... (though that does make me want to go boot up Borderlands2).

[scr]

All heil God-Emperor of Humanity, Col. Kugel! ...not!

I'm not sure he knows what he's doing. He basically wants to be a fascist overlord and he acts like it's perpetual resource starvation. This is Earth not space, water is abundant, so instead of becoming a Kim Jong Il expy he should start reverse engineering his robots and create a system that ensures the stable foundation of humanity via prosperity. Only then he can start exterminating the Hideauze, starting from the ones in Earth.

Perhaps he has a primal fear of being disposed as he's clearly deficient in the Alliance sense, so he's building his own personal fiefdom just in case the Alliance rears its head. Between this and his fascist upbringing, he end up with delusion of godhood.

[trinitem]

Kugel had himself an AIDS-ridden prostitute shortly after reaching earth. With his immune system out of the way, Kugel was forced to the confines of his sterile machine caliber lest he succumb to common diseases of earth.

Ok, so holograms are fishy, I wonder if Kugel also discovered the truth about the whalesquids and didn't take it quite so casually...

Hologram and sketch seem to be the pair for this thread. I'm on the boat of Kugel having been disposed of. My reasoning is also similar with the Kugel not liking the truth about the hideauze.

Machine calibers disobey orders like with the roast squid incident, but that only seems to happen when the pilot isn't following along with humanity's "best interests". Kugel freaked, Striker said no, and Kugel quickly disappeared.

Chamber has already calculated a return to the alliance as practically impossible, so unless we get some major voodoo, the remainder of the story looks small scale with 2 episodes remaining. Let's get this machine caliber duel going!

Amy's brother is deemed worthless -> Ledo defends Gargantia's ideals -> Ledo duels Kugel and/or Striker -> Ledo wins and learns to coexist in the after war earth.

Must say though, Pinions got a lot of points for me with this episode. He didn't try to pass on responsibility for previous episode actions.

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I think it'd be fine either way. Both struggling against a superior that Ledo has respected is a good conflict, but also fighting against an AI that is pushing forward this view of what is best for humanity. Both conflicts have some interesting aspects to them and could make for a good final showdown.

Though I can't wait for the explanation as to why they are targeting Gargantia. It's a pretty good sized fleet which I suppose would make it worth adding to the Borg collective here . But just seems rather coincidental for just that reason. Maybe also because Striker/Kugel knows that is where Ledo has spent a lot of his time and wants to stamp out any doubts in his mind while still having that strong authority over him?
While I'm not sure about the GA having become evil, I do agree that a moderate approach is probably how the people on Earth should move forward. Maybe hold off on annihilating all Hideauze in the Ocean until they pose a direct threat while making use of the tech they have gained. Think Strikers suggestion to Pinion is a good way to move forward. Learn how to use that technology and start developing your own stuff. Humanity has been spending too much time just dragging up its old stuff from the depths and not making nearly enough progress on their own. Looking to the past is helpful, but they do need to innovate for themselves or they are just too dependent on tech they just happened to find.

Well there is no power source strong enough to power the more advance human tech laying around aside from whale squid so coexistence and co development sounds like the best out come and could lead to completely new technology's of neither the galactic alliance or whale squid creation.Near limitless energy mixed with super advanced technology sounds like a pretty simple and great match. Wonder why the alliance never thought of it :v. Chamber in full power mode was killing whale squid like fodder in space till he ran outa energy almost,useing whale squid as energy would have fixed that then they could continuously attack the whale squid and develop even more powerful weapons.

Also the fact that people on earth who are powerful get treated way better than anyone else example the tons of food pinion got while other people are probably starving, The pirate chick being able to keep her ship and 2 friends around and lounge about. That is the reason I stated the Alliance was also evil. They probably have enough food and space to keep weak people like Ledos brother who was sent to death but choose not to accommodate them. We have only seen the condition of the soldiers since the commander knew more and had people/manipulation skills Ledo does not posses there has to be a caste system in place. Scientist,Engineers and Politicians probably live a luxury life style,Under them Relatives of such people and retired people make up high class citizens,Under them are Commanders,Below them are soldiers who can not pilot and man ships who probably have a lower life expectancy than soldiers, under them are low class citizens and finally the sick and skilles are sent to death.

Ledo has no knowledge on how caste systems work or how to manipulate people Kugel is a expert on it. So therefor Kugel would need knowledge on how a unfair caste system works like the G.A. in order to make one which is why I said the G.A. has become evil threw power.

This anime really has a big enough world to span into a longer series and cover different arcs.

Wow theories trying to state machine calibers run things and not humans meeh just not possible

1 Why would they need humans then why can't they pilot themselves.

2 Why would robots want a organic planet.

3 Why does chamber or striker not have any knowledge on how to develop or maintain weapons.

4 Why is a chamber out of the loop then but striker isn't doesn't make sense.

5 Kugel seems smarter at dealing with people than chamber if he is smarter than Ledo's A.I. he is Smarter than Stryker makes no sense for one A.I. to be Smarter than the other. Actually chamber has been learning how people function and their reasoning to do things while on earth and if anything would now be smarter than stryker so its a fact Kugel is still alive and running things he is just to smart with manipulating people.

It make more sense for Kugal to be shown as a way of presenting the evils of the alliance.The series has been presenting some of there reasonable ways as inhumane and now need a case to back it u. Also kugal already stated he knew the Whale Squid were once human as in he knew about it long before coming to earth why are questions on how he handled finding out being asked ?

[Mairsile]

If Kugel is alive, he may have used the virus fabrication as an excuse for him to not be seen in public. Although he may be using the cult to meet his agenda, he may not exactly trust them readily.

Either case, I expect the Pirate Queen and her underlings to uncover something big as they seem to be interested in snooping about but were told it wasn't the right time.

[triplez]

I enjoyed this episode. I really want Kugel to be alive and well. If it is Striker running things then it diminish for me the other extreme Ledo could have become .

Kugel's choice to present himself as a God or human savior probably gave him carte blanche to mold his fleet to resemble the Galactic Alliance in space. However he lacks the reward system that they employed like residency in Avalon or finding a mate plus all the cool gadgets and services afforded to the GA populace . He rules through awe and terror and made a fleet subservient to him. Those people in hoods may be dissenters or deficient humans ready for termination much like the kid in Ledo's flashback.

The contrast to Ledo is striking. I imagine if Ledo had stayed and survived and rose in the ranks he too would learn the secret behind the Hideaze and be co-opted into the what i believe is a military dictatorship.

However this does not make Kugel evil. I prefer villains with motives you can understand.He may believe in his heart he is doing the right thing. If the Galactic Alliance maintain unity through war with the Hideaze he can do the same on Earth with the whalesquids. However unlikely, through him it may be possible to unite all of Humanity on Earth for a Space Hideaze attack.To do that he will need to make an example of some people. Too bad he pick Gargantia .

I really hope Ledo has learn something from his travels and stand up for an alternative. Maybe he can convince Kugel that the whalesquid are not the same and there's no need for this harsh option. IF not he must fight his own commander because in Kugel's future for there will be no place for weaklings like Bevel.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Mairsile

If Kugel is alive, he may have used the virus fabrication as an excuse for him to not be seen in public. Although he may be using the cult to meet his agenda, he may not exactly trust them readily.

Either case, I expect the Pirate Queen and her underlings to uncover something big as they seem to be interested in snooping about but were told it wasn't the right time.

I was under the impression from what chamber said that the whole virus thing was just a excuse for not leaving Striker. Chamber specifically mentioned that by not appearing in public, Kugel can strike fear into his subjects--hence making it easier to rule over them.

Interesting thing was how did Kugel know that the "higher ups" knows everything about the Hideauze when "grunts [like himself shouldn't] because it's useless knowing it". He speaks as though he knows the truth before arriving on earth even though he's not supposed to before then.It was as though he found out from to higher ups accidentally but decided to ignore it.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well Chamber was certainly suspicious of the whole virus bit. His boy is still fine.

What Striker a command type went crazy as its commander is dead? Pretending he is still alive?

[monir]

Originally Posted by triplez

However this does not make Kugel evil. I prefer villains with motives you can understand.He may believe in his heart he is doing the right thing.

While I agree, I just can't help but point out that some of the worst atrocities were committed by people or agencies who believed they were doing the right thing, or just meant well, i.e. crusade, jihad etc...

[GreyZone]

By the way... I saw no one mention Chaber's "request: define happiness" yet.

I am sure when he said that he "agreed" with Striker's definition of happiness, Chamber only agreed in the confines of Striker's definition and not his own. I mean after all there IS only one definition of happiness in the GA, so, that he had to ask for the definition again from a fellow MC, is very suspicious.

I am sure on Gargantia he "learned" a lot, like for example thinking for himself, which it seems Ledo is not as good in right now. But I think at latest if something should happen to Amy, his Beserk button will trigger.


Oh and I wonder if anyone rised an eyebrow when Holo-Kugel said "WE soldiers are left out of the loop about the Hideauze". If so, WHY DOES HE, a soldier as well, KNOW ABOUT IT?

[EroKing]

Kinda amusing how Chamber has had more growth than Ledo?

[MyrzaelHanzo]

I think that little critter who was seen during Ledo´s and Kugel´s conversation in dining room was really similar to Amy´s squirell thing. But if it was really the squirell, what was it doing there in the first place ?

Is Amy already a hostage of Kugel + Striker ? And just why would Striker not communicate sooner ? Was it afraid that local primitive natives would somehow intercept and understand their message to Chamber ?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by MyrzaelHanzo

Is Amy already a hostage of Kugel + Striker ?

No, as Ledo saw that she is still flying around in Gargantia.

[jeroz]

keep in mind that something that might be logically sound may not be the truth or the correct option. Until we actually see the physical body of Kugel, he's as good as dead. Though I have to agree that him being alive brings more leverage into the narrative instead of the usual "berserk AI are evil!" scenario.

Chamber requesting definition of "happiness" could mean two things: there being no proper definition of the word at GA in the lower levels, or this is a clunky exposition method :P

It still strikes me as weird that Kugel needs another machine caliber in order to carry out the plan as himself is enough to bring out the force if that's what we are thinking of. Does that mean there's something wrong with Striker? or is there more sinister calculated motive behind it? Perhaps instead of teaching the people, it's more about disciplining Ledo for him straying away from the usual teaching.

[Funkatron]

I'm assuming "awareness" is the GA term for integrating "wandering tribes" ie making them aware that the GA way is the only way to live and they are traitors to humanity if they don't comply.

Originally Posted by jeroz

keep in mind that something that might be logically sound may not be the truth or the correct option. Until we actually see the physical body of Kugel, he's as good as dead. Though I have to agree that him being alive brings more leverage into the narrative instead of the usual "berserk AI are evil!" scenario.

Chamber requesting definition of "happiness" could mean two things: there being no proper definition of the word at GA in the lower levels, or this is a clunky exposition method :P

It still strikes me as weird that Kugel needs another machine caliber in order to carry out the plan as himself is enough to bring out the force if that's what we are thinking of. Does that mean there's something wrong with Striker? or is there more sinister calculated motive behind it? Perhaps instead of teaching the people, it's more about disciplining Ledo for him straying away from the usual teaching.

Its probably a way for Ledo to prove his loyalty ie will he bring "awareness" to his former home?