2013-06-19, 00:24 | Link #7741 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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2013-06-19, 00:31 | Link #7742 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
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Uhm, Rey seemed to do pretty darn well with a Blaze wizard. And Yzak seem able to take out other ms pretty easy with the Slash wizards Hydra beam guns.
And Luna being on ship defense is exactly why the Gunner Wizard makes no sense. It would have been better if she had a Blaze wizard like Rey or a Slash wizard like Yzak. Both would have allowed Luna to better target the fast moving targets she faced. Yet for some reason she was stuck with a beam cannon better suited for anti-ship or anti-fortress assaults. @Obelisk ze Tormentor Yeah I know, it just one of many things that annoyed me about Destiny and Gundam in general. They allow merchandise sales to dictate story/plot developments in some way or another. |
2013-06-19, 00:40 | Link #7743 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Believe me, Gundam franchise is way better in terms of balancing between story & merchandise compared to Yu-Gi-Oh! anime. Yu-Gi-Oh! anime butchered the original manga's story for the sake of more and more and more card battles to boost the merchandise sales .
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2013-06-19, 00:53 | Link #7744 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Your forgetting they are in space. It isn't as much of an issue out there. Even if she is given a the other pack, enemies could easily trick her into going astray from the Minerva. There is also that had she dealt with those Ginn high maneuver 2 pilots that would have been screwed a lot earlier. So she got off lucky by fighting Stella instead, rather than those pilots that truly do know what they are capable of. Also, Luna never struck as pilot that make their decisions on a the fly. For Yzak, Athrun, Kira, other veterans aces is that they know when they make a decisions, they are aware of the consequences that follow. Luna is sort of safe by just doing cover fire and ship defense. Furthermore, she isn't skilled enough to fight tougher enemies where it really does matter. Also, don't think of long range support as anti-ship or anti-fortress. For the gunner artillery pack is meant to standard artillery load-out to work with other zaku warriors against enemies. It isn't specialize to the point where it is only dedicated to ultra specialize role that literally makes it the only unit that can do that. They aren't suppose to be seen for they are treated like noise that rattle enemies and take down certain positions. That is why the other zaku warriors and Impulse are there on the battlefield. Last edited by Cherudim Arche; 2013-06-19 at 01:28. |
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2013-06-19, 01:28 | Link #7745 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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However, I was never really convinced of Sumeragi's conviction... Lacus was clearly the chess master (even Dully called her that). She was in command and orchestrated a number of events that occurred in Seed/Destiny. Whether you were a willing pawn of her schemes or you were somehow fooled into becoming one is another story. Though I don't recall any other woman in a Gundam franchise who held as much power as she did, except Haman Karn. I also cannot think of an instance where Lacus inquired others on what she should do for her next move. While Merrue still harbored feelings for Mwu, that feeling was not reignited until much later. Although she was heartbroken, her actions suggested very little connection to her feelings towards Mwu. After all, she didn't think he was alive. But what was her response to ZAFT taking a hostile stance towards Orb? Launch the AA. You have to admit, that single ship kept many Gunadms intact and pilots alive. So I wouldn't claim that she didn't do much. True, she didn't kill much, but that wasn't the AA's role anyway. Of course, not all women in Seed/Destiny were of the independent variant. Luna, Stella, Meyrin, Meer... well, we know their stories. - Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-06-19 at 01:40. |
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2013-06-19, 02:04 | Link #7746 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
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Huh?
The Minerva spent 95% of the show on Earth not space. And until she got the Impulse her primary responsibility was to keep enemy mobile suits off the Minerva while Shin/Athrun did the heavy lifting. And even during her fight with Stella the Blaze or Slash wizards would have been better. H*ll launching without a pack would have been better than launching with the Gunner. And how else am I supposed to think of a piece of equipment best described as "artillery"? And your theory only works if the Gunner has the support of other units. Which Luna did not have because she was one of two Zaku pilots. While Shin, Athrun and Heine(however briefly) where to busy else where to provide the support Luna needed effectively use it. |
2013-06-19, 02:14 | Link #7747 | |
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2013-06-19, 02:25 | Link #7748 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Remember Luna still has her rifle and grenades and tomahawk. It's not like the Gunner pack is her only weapon. All the Blaze gives is a one barrage missile shot. The Slash was by far the best pack but for some reason it was rarely deployed. Aside from Yzak only one or two random Zaku's had it towards the end of the show. I don't think Minerva was ever shown to have any of them on board in the various shots of equipment in the hanger.
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2013-06-19, 02:50 | Link #7749 |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
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@Monster Perhaps, but I feel she could have done better if she had a different wizard pack. Personally I'd have preferred she use the Slash because off the Hydra's.
Meh, I'm just venting because of how she was chickified in the later half of the series. |
2013-06-19, 11:06 | Link #7750 | |
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It made sense to me why Luna used the Gunner pack so much when they got to earth, since at that point she and Rey became glorified turrets on the Minerva and the pack that specializes in range makes the most sense to use. My only guess as to why the Slash wasn't used much is that most Zaft soldiers don't prefer close combat. |
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2013-06-19, 18:28 | Link #7751 | ||
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2013-06-19, 18:51 | Link #7752 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On the edge of insanity
Age: 44
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You do realize that the Gunner at least has it's own power pack. Even than, when was the last time we saw a grunt unit run out of power? Grunt unit's like the ZAKU are usually destroyed before energy depletion becomes a problem. And those who aren't destroyed, are able to return to their home base without difficulty.
As for Luna being a sitting duck on earth. Sure if she was dump enough to leave the Minerva. But since she stayed with the Minerva while she was piloting her ZAKU the answer is no. |
2013-06-19, 19:45 | Link #7753 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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The problem is see is that Luna would have been as much of target as Shinn. She is only thing holding forces back. Rey helps to provide some defense, but its never enough to deal with reinforcement that beat them in terms of speed. Last edited by Cherudim Arche; 2013-06-20 at 01:34. |
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2013-06-20, 00:45 | Link #7754 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Also the Blaze does come with extra thrusters, so its not just missiles it provides (unless you are talking about earth use where its dead weight and inferior to the Gunner which can still function as intended) |
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2013-06-20, 01:23 | Link #7755 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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When was any female in Destiny a paragon of independence or strength? Half of the named females were drooling over Athrun, Lacus was with Kira, and leading a faction doesn't automatically mean strength. Hell Talia commits suicide with Gil because she was being boned by him despite having a son. And the only new female character with actual focus gets killed off before the episode occurs. It's not exactly groundbreaking Age is arguably worse with females from I hear they get treated like baby makers, so that's moot. And I need to rewatch 00 I can't remember in too much in depth, Wang was ambitious, Nina was bloodthirsty, Sumeragi was likeable, Anew was a love interest, Felt was squandered love interest. Louse was also alright I guess albeit somewhat of a cliche within Gundam having crazy girlfriends. Mariana was meh, Kati was alpha. Now unto predecessors, Syla was an active pilot and even used the Gundam. Emma was a Gundam pilot and a central character until the last episode. ZZ Had Roux and Elle. F91 had Cessily. Gundam X had Tiffa Paula and Enil. Naw they got a more consistent record stacked against one series IMO |
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2013-06-20, 03:12 | Link #7756 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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That said, being independent/strong doesn't necessarily mean you have to lead a lonely life. The girls who were "drooling" over Athrun knew what they wanted and chose their own paths in life, Meer and Meyrin in particular. And I don't really sense a can't-live-without-him motivation in Talia choosing to die with Durandal, more like it's-somehow-partly-my-fault-he-ended-up-like-this. Quote:
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2013-06-20, 04:03 | Link #7757 | |
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2013-06-20, 06:41 | Link #7758 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Lacus was pretty much the boss of the whole Terminal organization (after a few eps of hesitation just hanging out on AA). That's pretty independent I'd say. Kira was essentially working for her, not the other way around. Most of the Clyne Faction in fact was only there because they wanted to work for Lacus. Eternal crew, Dom guys, all those Zaft defectors, maybe Andy (he's also pretty fond of Kira and Murrue as well).
Cagalli had major willpower issues in Destiny but that wasn't caused by romance problems, but because of her essentially losing her nation and feeling like she failed to live up to their ideals. She slowly starts getting her old self back, first when Amagi and the Orb defectors show up, showing her that at least some of the Orb fleet still believes in Uzumi's ideals, and then later on when the Seiran's screw up and the rest of the country looks to her to save it. Meyrin ditches her whole country and sister simply because she believes arresting Athrun is an unjust act. Being a leader DOES mean strength. It has nothing to do with simply being a pilot or having a cool badass attitude. The phyiscally strongest girl in the show, Lunamaria was actually probably the weakest when it comes down to it as her entire character revovled around crushing on Athrun, and later crushing on Shinn and she easily folded and submitted to Zaft in the end despite obviously having doubts and reservations about what they were doing, mostly because Shinn was still there. Lacus and Cagalli being the major faction leaders are probably the best example. Unlike other Gundam the male pilots as the tools to be used here. |
2013-06-20, 06:48 | Link #7759 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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WAT? Tiffa Adill is an example of an independent woman? She’s a “damsel-in-distress” during many occasions in Gundam X. Many times, she’s just awaiting to be rescued by Garrod and quite helpless without him (and others) even though she indeed has her own goal.
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2013-06-20, 10:28 | Link #7760 |
2LMES
Join Date: May 2012
Location: a comet that goes zooom!!!
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Well for me, seeing Lacus, Cagalli, and pretty much most of the female cast as independent characters was kinda outlandish. Most of them aren't older than 20 years old and yet they are leading all these people and nations, I just don't get how somebody would just follow such a young person. I know we, in the past, have had 8 year old emperors but its not like they lead the nation. Just seemed weird to me.
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