Valvrave the Liberator - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

in shinnxlunas defense they are both professional soldiers and knew it had to be done, well at the time

Shin's true love was also Stella..

Spoiler:

who was dead at point

[Destined_Fate]

Actually no. Shinn never loved Stella in that way, he saw her as a replacement for his dead sister. Hence why he kept seeing his dead sister in Stella and why he wanted to protect her because he had failed his real sister in the past.. He was even fine never seeing Stella ever again if it meant that she didn't fight anymore so he never had any intention of being romantic with her either.

The Remaster and the Specials worked hard to show that there was interest between Shinn and Lunamaria(mostly Lunamaria) due to how it wasn't all that much touched on when the TV series came out. Hence why people confuse Stella as a love interest for Shinn when she never was nor did Shinn ever imply he felt such a way for her which would most likely make him sick if it was brought up as he only saw Stella as a sister figure.

As for L-Elf in this anime....

No, his face was not a give a **** face when he was looking at Shoko when she was crying. There was concern in his look and he didn't even bother to gloat about one upping Shoko in this as she could do nothing about the situation. Doing that would have been in his character if he didn't give a **** but clearly he did after Shoko's reaction hence his silence even when he "won" over Shoko. After all, this victory was better sweet as Shoko, once again, proved him wrong as she didn't give into temptation despite how much she loved her father and wanted to save him.

[~BC~]

Why would he gloat about one-upping Shoko? That wasn't even his reason for doing what he did. And even he would know that such behavior would be inappropriate. Honestly, the closest thing to gloating we've seen him doing is being smug when Haruto gets mad over him allowing his friends to pilot.

What stuck out to me during the negotiation were his expressions when he 1)first took out the gun and 2) made the decision that he would shoot her if she chose incorrectly (just before he pulls back the hammer).

[Destined_Fate]

Because L-Elf likes winning and he has never fully bested Shoko before this point. Hence why he was happy to hear the hailing, as he predicted, and had Shoko be alone with him so he could relish his long sought victory over her and do as he saw fit should she fail which he assumed she would. However Shoko being Shoko defied his expectations yet again as she didn't budge, thus showing she has the right to rule, and her crying afterward made even him look unsettled. Which I don't blame him as Shoko didn't do as he predicted, sell out for family, and let her father die as a sacrifice of one for the many despite her being a very caring person that doesn't want anyone to die if she can help it combined with her love for her Father.

[KleenexGhost]

Anyone else think L-Elf would have shot her if she tried to call Haruto to tell him about the situation?

[~BC~]

I thought that was obvious. They made a point of showing her fiddling with her phone just before he cocks the gun (after looking at her).

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I thought that was obvious. They made a point of showing her fiddling with her phone just before he cocks the gun (after looking at her).

Oh yeah, I forgot that she pulled out her phone.

[Domonkazu]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Anyone else think L-Elf would have shot her if she tried to call Haruto to tell him about the situation?

he would, he is heartless bastard, who is willing to do anything to achieve his goal, I truly hope that his beloved princess dies in the end.

[mayumi]

Originally Posted by Domonkazu

he would, he is heartless bastard, who is willing to do anything to achieve his goal, I truly hope that his beloved princess dies in the end.

Shouko was PM who might have done something horrible to harm the nation if she wavered in the protection of the country. Shooting her is something that is only logical but wishing that L-Elf's princess dies because of Shouko's confusion and L-Elf's duty is rather lame.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by mayumi

Shooting her is something that is only logical...

He probably used logic to come to that conclusion but that logic was extremely wanting, IMO. Especially if it was just a matter of stopping Shoko from making the wrong choice. Shooting her would have been an overreaction that would've caused more harm than necessary.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

He probably used logic to come to that conclusion but that logic was extremely wanting, IMO. Especially if it was just a matter of stopping Shoko from making the wrong choice. Shooting her would have been an overreaction that would've caused more harm than necessary.

Yeah. It would tank his contract with Haruto. New Jior would be out a Prime Minister. And her friends would probably seek revenge.

L-Elf would probably have a plan, but like you said it would cause more harm than necessary.

Question:If it ever comes down to it, out of all the Raves and their pilots, who would be considered the most expendable? I mean in terms of L-Elf needing them for his revolution.

[mayumi]

But the problem is if Shouko does not put the country first then there might be other occasions where she might willing compromise or give up when L-Elf is not watching. Shouko was indeed being human and she is very young to be PM but she won and gave a speech. She has responsibility to the students over her own emotions. It is not easy being a PM.

[~BC~]

Question:If it ever comes down to it, out of all the Raves and their pilots, who would be considered the most expendable? I mean in terms of L-Elf needing them for his revolution.

Toss up between Saki and Raizo. Both are the brashest of the pilots. It also doesn't help that both have clashed quite badly with L-Elf. Raizo maybe a little more than Saki, considering his beef with Dorssia seems more pronounced than the others. I also don't see him using the jacking ability with quite the same finesse. Imagine him jacking someone like X-Eins for example.

Machine-wise all I can say is that no. 1 would be the least expendable. I can see how they might be able to make due without Saki's but they really work best as a team, IMO.

But the problem is if Shouko does not put the country first then there might be other occasions where she might willing compromise or give up when L-Elf is not watching. Shouko was indeed being human and she is very young to be PM but she won and gave a speech. She has responsibility to the students over her own emotions. It is not easy being a PM.

I get that but this can easily be addressed afterwards. There's nothing saying she wouldn't realize the severity of her failure afterwards once she had time to calm down (and the issue of her fitness can be discussed with the others). All he had to do was either knock her out or cut the transmission.

[FiveOVER]

I think being the cautious and calculative guy he is, L-11 didn't want to take any chances. Since his brain does not work like normal people, he would weigh the immediate danger of Shoko snapping more dire than the effects of killing her afterwards.

Btw, I think L-11 probably would not be able to stop Shoko in time if she decided to call Haruto and he tried to use other methods to apprehend her. Haruto knowing what he's not supposed to know will result in an immediate game over.

[~BC~]

We've seen L-Elf fight. He could've knocked her out in one hit before she even pressed a button twice.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

I thought that was obvious. They made a point of showing her fiddling with her phone just before he cocks the gun (after looking at her).

She was fiddling with her skirt which she always does when she's trying to think of an idea. This is the first time that she was unable to think of something when it mattered most.

L-Elf has no reason to kill her as he could just shoot the screen and be done with it while killing Shoko would ruin all of his plans thus far as he would burn down too many bridges and would literally have no allies left if he did it. L-Elf isn't dumb enough to do that when he doesn't have to.

[FiveOVER]

Shoko's the only one who managed to foil his plan. Just saying that he's not going to take any chances where Shoko is involved.

[Destined_Fate]

He takes more chances by killing her than just ending the transmission or knocking her out.

Informing everyone where he's going with Shoko and being caught on Cameras implies that he never intended to kill her in the first place.

L-Elf wanted to savor a victory over Shoko because she's a wild card that has puzzled him multiple times but her refusing to submit to the enemies demands and her crying afterward because she realized she could do nothing ruined L-Elf's "win" over her and made him look as though he sympathized with her.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

She was fiddling with her skirt which she always does when she's trying to think of an idea.

She was fiddling with her skirt at one point, yes. But she had the phone in her hands when L-Elf looked at her and cocked his gun (which he was merely holding beforehand).

I liked the way they directed this scene because it showed that while Shoko never actually said "let my father die" she did in fact choose to do just that.

[FiveOVER]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

He takes more chances by killing her than just ending the transmission or knocking her out.

Informing everyone where he's going with Shoko and being caught on Cameras implies that he never intended to kill her in the first place.

L-Elf wanted to savor a victory over Shoko because she's a wild card that has puzzled him multiple times but her refusing to submit to the enemies demands and her crying afterward because she realized she could do nothing ruined L-Elf's "win" over her and made him look as though he sympathized with her.

I guess you're right. Like you said, he could've used the gun for other purposes.