NFL and College Football (American Football) Thread

[Mr. DJ]

Orton starting w/ a retired Kitna as backup.

...wake me when it's over.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Orton starting w/ a retired Kitna as backup.

...wake me when it's over.

*Prepares water bucket with ice*
Its going to be a interest scenario to say the least.


Also, Jaguars started resigning their free agents early. Sen'Derrick Marks got resign in a 4 year deal worth 22 million dollars.

For the remaining free agents, I believe the next to player to be resign by the Jaguars is ROT Austin Pasztor. He deserves it and I am confident he is our right tackle for years to come. Next should be Maurice Jones Drew, but at the right price.

Wide Receiver Mike Brown should be resign as well, depending on how he does against the Colts he may get more than a 3 year deal. Other notables should be Chad Henne (a cheap, but effective back up), Will Blackmon (would be on my list to resign immediately if he was 26 or younger but is 29), Jordan Todman (a great player to confuse defenses who are accustom to MJD style), and Cameron Bradfield (a solid back up for Joeckal).

The resigning of Marks will raise eyebrows to many free agents this year. They now know that if they play well, they will get the money that matches it here in Jacksonville. Coupled with the positive atmosphere, great coaching, and the prospective of always an opportunity coming around the corner. It makes great incentive to bring players in and motivates players on the team to play harder as well.

[Suzuku]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

You make an compelling argument, but I still say he isn't a top 3 pick. Top 10 maybe, top 15 is definitely, but unless I have a crystal ball to see in the future, I can not say I like him as a top 3 pick. The Quarterbacks you mentioned played in a different football era. He will need to improve his mechanics, everyone has to and he is no exception there is always room to grow.

If you think the QB is your guy and can be a franchise QB then you take him with your pick regardless. You can't risk it. I really don't want us taking Clowney over him or something. I just feel it, it'll be another one of those situations where we will regret it. Just like taking a punter instead of Russell Wilson, or missing out on Aaron Rodgers when we could have had him, or any number of other QB misses we've had over the past decade. Yes, those guys played in a different era, but if anything they played in an era where it was harder to do what they did because defenses did not have all the rules stacked against them back then. Manziel can improve on some stuff, but they're not detrimental enough to make me think we should not use him with our pick at all. I just don't see Clowney as the sure fire thing people saw him as after that one hit last year.

I was probably too critical of him about his character, but there is risks involved. Its a double edge sword about his charisma, if it goes good and he plays well alright. However, if it is on the other side, then its a problem.

I am looking at Brett Smith from Wyoming, him and Manziel are awfully similar. With some analysts stating Smith is an almost exact replica of Manziel. If we were to choose a Quarterback in this draft, it would be in the later rounds.

I hadn't even heard of Brett Smith before you brung him up, but looking at tape of a game he had against New Mexico, I DO like him, though I don't necessarily agree he's like Manziel. When I watch him play he looks more like a (poor man's) Marcus Mariota. He has really good straight line speed and the ability to make some guys miss in the open field and can throw while on the run to his right, and has a little less arm strength and maybe a little less speed than Mariota as well, but I wouldn't compare him to Manziel. I didn't see the type of playmaking ability Manziel has or the same elusiveness and quickness. Like I said Manziel is a special player with a special skill set, you're not going to find anyone you can compare him to in college football or even the pros right now. The only comparisons that can be made are historical and he has the scrambling ability of Tarkenton, the down field speed and make-you-miss ability of Roger Staubach, and the ability to throw the ball anywhere on the field from any position, whether he be rolling left or right or off balance, of Joe Montana. You're not going to find that type of skill set in anyone in college or the pros today.

But back on Smith, yeah, I can see him as a great potential pick up in the second or third. He made some really nice down the field throws and definitely has some Kaepernick/Mariota-like qualities in him. My problems with him are a) the conference he plays in, b) the offensive system he plays in call for a lot of screen passes so the down the field throws are limited, but like I said, I liked the ones I saw, and c) how developed he is in terms of reading defenses. Seeing Kaep and RGIII struggle at it makes me worry about these guys who are given absolutely no responsibility to do so at the college level and I didn't see any particular plays where it looked like Smith was given that responsibility, other than maybe deciding to throw it off as a screen pass. But in terms of his physical abilities and arm strength/talent, I like him well enough. He has some good ball placement too. Like I said I've only watched that one game so I'm still skeptical, but if I were to make a judgement just off that one game, I'd like him over McCarron, Garoppolo, Fales, Carr, etc.

Clowney has subtle issues no doubt, but I feel more confident in him. He was a first round talent even before he went into college but he couldn't due to the rules. He is a one in the life time defensive end and will fix our pass rush.

Fans who take great hurt that if Caldwell passes on Quarterback this year are not really knowledgeable. Fans right now sees the vision, they will understand. I will trust Caldwell's judgement more than myself and any analysts out there. He drafted two of the best Quarterbacks in the league, he knows what makes a franchise Quarterback.

I am willing to wait next year. The Texans, Browns, and Raiders will most likely get their Quarterback this year. 3 of the 4 teams that are desperate for a Quarterback minus us will have theirs this year and will not be in the hunt for next year. 4 other teams, the Titans, Buccaneers, Eagles, and Rams are interested, but most likely developed their Quarterbacks right now rather than start from scratch next year. It is highly likely we can find our franchise Quarterback next year with so many options for us due to the lack of competition.

I see Johnny as just as special a talent as Clowney is on the offensive side of the ball, and I'm not worried about injuries with him as much because he does not have a history of them like Clowney. Those bone spurs are REALLY scary. That's the type of nagging injury that can keep a player out multiple games and seriously hamper them long term if it begins to worsen. I just don't think people appreciate just how rare a talent Manziel is right now at the college level because they see him as JUST a runner, not realizing the type of measurables, instincts, and athleticism he has you don't find everyday. I bet Manziel has a more impressive rookie season than Bridgewater honestly. Bridgwater is just the safest pick because he does everything you want a QB to do well, but that doesn't mean he will be a more impactful player or playmaker.

And like I said, I like Manziel more than every QB other than Winston next year. I don't want us to pass on Manziel and wait to get a QB next year that won't even be as good as him, especially not overrated crap like Mariota and Hundley.

Oh, and speaking of our defensive line, we signed Sen'Derrick Marks to a 4 year $22 million extension today. Well worth it and he proved it. Glad Caldwell found a gem the Titans missed out on. That's one D-Linemen locked up now.

EDIT: lol nvm, see you mentioned it above.

[Suzuku]

Funny enough, Brett Smith just announced a few hours ago he will enter the 2014 draft.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Orton starting w/ a retired Kitna as backup.

...wake me when it's over.

Take that critique cause Kyle Orton is back. You know how Kyle can really stick it to his 300+ million critique? By taking this team to the superbowl.

I just couldn't resist.

[Mr. DJ]

Man...even if Dallas somehow pulls out a win, I'm still certain playoffs will be one and done

[GDB]

He doesn't even have to take them to the Super Bowl. Just one playoff win and he'd be equal in his one year with the team to what Romo's done in like... 10 years.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

If you think the QB is your guy and can be a franchise QB then you take him with your pick regardless. You can't risk it. I really don't want us taking Clowney over him or something. I just feel it, it'll be another one of those situations where we will regret it. Just like taking a punter instead of Russell Wilson, or missing out on Aaron Rodgers when we could have had him, or any number of other QB misses we've had over the past decade. Yes, those guys played in a different era, but if anything they played in an era where it was harder to do what they did because defenses did not have all the rules stacked against them back then. Manziel can improve on some stuff, but they're not detrimental enough to make me think we should not use him with our pick at all. I just don't see Clowney as the sure fire thing people saw him as after that one hit last year.

I hadn't even heard of Brett Smith before you brung him up, but looking at tape of a game he had against New Mexico, I DO like him, though I don't necessarily agree he's like Manziel. When I watch him play he looks more like a (poor man's) Marcus Mariota. He has really good straight line speed and the ability to make some guys miss in the open field and can throw while on the run to his right, and has a little less arm strength and maybe a little less speed than Mariota as well, but I wouldn't compare him to Manziel. I didn't see the type of playmaking ability Manziel has or the same elusiveness and quickness. Like I said Manziel is a special player with a special skill set, you're not going to find anyone you can compare him to in college football or even the pros right now. The only comparisons that can be made are historical and he has the scrambling ability of Tarkenton, the down field speed and make-you-miss ability of Roger Staubach, and the ability to throw the ball anywhere on the field from any position, whether he be rolling left or right or off balance, of Joe Montana. You're not going to find that type of skill set in anyone in college or the pros today.

But back on Smith, yeah, I can see him as a great potential pick up in the second or third. He made some really nice down the field throws and definitely has some Kaepernick/Mariota-like qualities in him. My problems with him are a) the conference he plays in, b) the offensive system he plays in call for a lot of screen passes so the down the field throws are limited, but like I said, I liked the ones I saw, and c) how developed he is in terms of reading defenses. Seeing Kaep and RGIII struggle at it makes me worry about these guys who are given absolutely no responsibility to do so at the college level and I didn't see any particular plays where it looked like Smith was given that responsibility, other than maybe deciding to throw it off as a screen pass. But in terms of his physical abilities and arm strength/talent, I like him well enough. He has some good ball placement too. Like I said I've only watched that one game so I'm still skeptical, but if I were to make a judgement just off that one game, I'd like him over McCarron, Garoppolo, Fales, Carr, etc.

I see Johnny as just as special a talent as Clowney is on the offensive side of the ball, and I'm not worried about injuries with him as much because he does not have a history of them like Clowney. Those bone spurs are REALLY scary. That's the type of nagging injury that can keep a player out multiple games and seriously hamper them long term if it begins to worsen. I just don't think people appreciate just how rare a talent Manziel is right now at the college level because they see him as JUST a runner, not realizing the type of measurables, instincts, and athleticism he has you don't find everyday. I bet Manziel has a more impressive rookie season than Bridgewater honestly. Bridgwater is just the safest pick because he does everything you want a QB to do well, but that doesn't mean he will be a more impactful player or playmaker.

And like I said, I like Manziel more than every QB other than Winston next year. I don't want us to pass on Manziel and wait to get a QB next year that won't even be as good as him, especially not overrated crap like Mariota and Hundley.

Oh, and speaking of our defensive line, we signed Sen'Derrick Marks to a 4 year $22 million extension today. Well worth it and he proved it. Glad Caldwell found a gem the Titans missed out on. That's one D-Linemen locked up now.

EDIT: lol nvm, see you mentioned it above.

We can go back and forth about this, and I agree about your points about Manziel. Though I still have reservations about him, lets continue this discussion when the combine arrives and the results are in. Lets focus on the other 9 draft picks until then.

However, lets leave it with this. If we do select Manziel, then I will not have any qualms about it. Caldwell did his research, he knows what to look for, if he thinks Manziel is the guy I will not complain. I trust his judgement. Looking at our offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, he is innovative so maybe a tradition Quarterback isn't the answer. So Manziel being a dual threat Quarterback may be a better bet. The thing I worry about him is that he most often will try to make something happen on a dead play. That cannot happen in the NFL, he will need to learn to throw the ball away when there is nothing there. He will not last long in the NFL if he gets hit 5 or more times from a Von Miller or J.J Watt in a single game. So if he fixes that tendency, I will be happy to take him. He has shown much improvement and appears to be getting better in the pocket.

[Suzuku]

Yeah that's true he tries to finish the play no matter what a lot like Fran Tarkenton. It will be interesting to see how he adapts that. If he extends the plays long enough someone will eventually get open. But yeah he will have to throw it away more at the next level.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

Yeah that's true he tries to finish the play no matter what a lot like Fran Tarkenton. It will be interesting to see how he adapts that. If he extends the plays long enough someone will eventually get open. But yeah he will have to throw it away more at the next level.

Which particularly prospects you are going to be watching closely during the bowl games this week?

[Suzuku]

Well obviously, all the QBs. Eric Ebron, Marcus Smith, Hakeem Smith, Calvin Pryor, Vic Beasley, Michael Sam, Cyril Richardson, David Yankey, and a couple WRs.

[sky black swordman]

So the fate of the final wild card in the AFC comes down to the SD Chargers and the KC Chiefs game. If the Chargers win or tie they are in the playoffs, but if they lose the Steelers are in.

[GDB]

Gotta say, while I obviously wanted the Ravens to get in the playoffs... I'm also kind of glad they didn't. They've been so egotistical this season, acting like they're too good to have to play games, that they needed to be brought back down to earth. Can't play like shit half the season and expect to just be given a playoff spot.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by GDB

Gotta say, while I obviously wanted the Ravens to get in the playoffs... I'm also kind of glad they didn't. They've been so egotistical this season, acting like they're too good to have to play games, that they needed to be brought back down to earth. Can't play like shit half the season and expect to just be given a playoff spot.

I always felt that the Ravens wouldn't get into the playoffs. Felt that they were under performing. Also with Flacco's contract, they cannot sign quality players so its going to be tough next year. Had a bad experience with Raven band wagon fans at the mall once, so maybe I am biased when I was happy when they were eliminated.

The biggest surprise in my opinion is that Rex Ryan will still be the coach for the Jets. Also, I am so disappointed in the Red Skins, I hoped that they would win this game so the Rams may be dropped from the second overall pick.

[KiraYamatoFan]

What a finish in the Packers/Bears match! Give Aaron Rodgers that amount of space and time late in the match and he will deliver. The surprising part is that Chicago led 28-20 going into the 4th quarter, but then crumbled completely.

[GDB]

Sooo glad the Packers made it. They're my #2 team (were #1 before the Ravens came into the league), so glad one of my two teams made it in.

Also, thank god the Chargers won. Keep those filthy Steelers out of the playoffs.

[D2]

"We don’t need luck, Jay will throw us the ball." HAHA, don't even care if we lose next week, we just knocked the Bears out of the playoffs!

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by GDB

Sooo glad the Packers made it. They're my #2 team (were #1 before the Ravens came into the league), so glad one of my two teams made it in.

Also, thank god the Chargers won. Keep those filthy Steelers out of the playoffs.

Come on now, we got to show respect for the elders

In all seriousness, it is great the Chargers get their opportunity.

[Lightning_Wing]

Great win by the Eagles. It's nice to see Philly in the playoff picture again.

[Last Sinner]

Despite the absence of Romo, Dallas hung in there all night. But turnovers - as always - shot themselves in the foot. Philadelphia deserve to reach the playoffs.

So next week we've got...

San Diego at Cincinatti
Kansas City at Indy

New Orleans at Philly
Green Bay at San Fran


Well, I know people thought I was crazy when I called it at mid-season, but I was right in the end. San Diego did get a wildcard and the way Dalton played today, Cincinatti are by no means a guarantee to win that game.