JPOP: Decline and the silence of the fans.

[Dhomochevsky]

Yes, GEMA block is annoying and will certainly cost a lot of not so popular acts the chance to get noticed. The worst thing is, that blocked songs do not show up at all unless you search for them. So, no links on the front page, or within the related videos list.
Makes it harder to discover new artists and songs, but is not really an obstacle if you know what you are looking for.

The big question is:
For any popularity K-pop may have gained in the past, how did it happen?
And here my guess is, that it got 'bounced' over the U.S., rather than being directly influenced from Korea, because that is how it usually works for new international trends.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

Yes, GEMA block is annoying and will certainly cost a lot of not so popular acts the chance to get noticed. The worst thing is, that blocked songs do not show up at all unless you search for them. So, no links on the front page, or within the related videos list.
Makes it harder to discover new artists and songs, but is not really an obstacle if you know what you are looking for.

The big question is:
For any popularity K-pop may have gained in the past, how did it happen?
And here my guess is, that it got 'bounced' over the U.S., rather than being directly influenced from Korea, because that is how it usually works for new international trends.

Actually several K-pop group have gotten offered to debut first in Europe:

4minute was given offer to debut in Europe but had to turned it down.

f(x) and Epik High was also offered to debut in Europe. Here's a quote from the article:

Originally Posted by DKpopnews

The two groups drew a lot of interest from local journalists and record companies. Agency SM Entertainment explained that the girl band received numerous inquiries and offers from some 20 companies, including Warner Music Sweden, about making an European debut. Epik High was also approached by an agent, who manages U.S. hip-hop artist Pitbull, to write songs and by an Australian record distribution company Timeless who offered to distribute the group's music both online and offline.

Also if you watch the video of SHINee at Abbey Road, it was like Beatlemania so K-pop has gotten big in Europe even before US took notice of K-pop power. I think I know why K-pop fanbase has gotten big in Europe, SHINee said this in a interview:

Originally Posted by DKpopnews

- What do you think Europeans find attractive in K-pop?

SHINee: They seem to think it’s different. We heard there are no dancing idols in Europe. We can proudly say Korean singers have everything from singing skills to fashion and dancing. Our albums are also made with the global market as our target. Some of our songs are from Europe, and we dance to the songs. I think that’s why young women in Europe are attracted to us.

SHINee's right, I look at current European act, I don't see any European artists that do choreograph dance like K-pop does. Those artists in Europe can't hold candle on the same level as K-pop. I mean sure you guys got Little Mix and The Saturday, but their dance can't hold candle against SNSD, 2NE1, After School, etc... Also boy band like One Direction and The Wanted don't do any dance like Super Junior, BigBang, Infinite, Teen Top, TVXQ etc.... Those 2 wouldn't hold a candle against K-pop. So K-pop has gotten big even before Gangnam Style, it's big in France, UK, Spain, and there is a big fanbase in Europe. I mean even before K-pop and Gangnam Style has gotten big, I read it that # of Korean studies in Europe has risen since 2009.

I read it that Japanese classes/studies has stagnate for the last few years due to lack of govt support, and laziness from the Japanese side. This is why I'm concern for Japanese pop culture outside of Asia. Sure you got anime fanbases that are still growing, but the other part of Japanese industry that include music industry is not taking their international fans seriously unlike their Korean counterpart.

[houkoholic]

I've always argued that the domestic Jpop market size is probably significant enough such that it makes little sense for them to branch out, so I did a bit of leg work to find some numbers to put some perspective to this

According to this website, domestic Jpop software sales (ie CDs and disk and electronic downloads) for 2012 totaled 2381 billion yen (about 2.7 billion US dollars), and according to Wikipedia - the entire Kpop market for the first half of that year is 3.4 billion USD. Assuming that for the same time period that Japan "only" sold half which is 1.35 billion on CDs *alone* compared to the *entirety* of the Kpop market size, one can see why Japan has so little interest in expanding overseas because if you factor in other things like concerts, movie deals, advertising etc, the Jpop domestic industry would be easily worth more than Kpop and its export a few times over, yet this is *just* their domestic industry. Again, when your own market is so large, it makes little sense to try to conquer the little markets where you have to form different deals with labels, contracts to conform to different local laws and languages etc.

And what do you know, in fact, Japan was the largest music market in the world in 2012, overtaking the US. Korea was merely 11th.

And this is also the reasons why the Kpop artists looked to the Jpop market and the rest of the world, but it doesn't make sense the other way around - the money is simply too different. A Jpop artist using Kpop as a launch pad would be considered a serious disgrace, to put it lightly.

EDIT: I actually made a mistake in the currency conversion - it should be 27 billion USD! So domestic Jpop CD sales is worth more than the entire Kpop market.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

I've always argued that the domestic Jpop market size is probably significant enough such that it makes little sense for them to branch out, so I did a bit of leg work to find some numbers to put some perspective to this

According to this website, domestic Jpop software sales (ie CDs and disk and electronic downloads) for 2012 totaled 2381 billion yen (about 2.7 billion US dollars), and according to Wikipedia - the entire Kpop market for the first half of that year is 3.4 billion USD. Assuming that for the same time period that Japan "only" sold half which is 1.35 billion on CDs *alone* compared to the *entirety* of the Kpop market size, one can see why Japan has so little interest in expanding overseas because if you factor in other things like concerts, movie deals, advertising etc, the Jpop domestic industry would be easily worth more than Kpop and its export a few times over, yet this is *just* their domestic industry. Again, when your own market is so large, it makes little sense to try to conquer the little markets where you have to form different deals with labels, contracts to conform to different local laws and languages etc.

And what do you know, in fact, Japan was the largest music market in the world in 2012, overtaking the US. Korea was merely 11th.

And this is also the reasons why the Kpop artists looked to the Jpop market and the rest of the world, but it doesn't make sense the other way around - the money is simply too different. A Jpop artist using Kpop as a launch pad would be considered a serious disgrace, to put it lightly.

Japan maybe the 2nd largest market, but the US market is #1 yet western artists still do performances outside of US and do world tour when Japanese artists (a lot of them) have never done concerts outside of Japan or doing a world tour. We maybe #1 but US music industry never believed in self-sustain unlike Japan, that's why US music is exported outside of US. Now Japan's population decline is getting worse so they can't stay in Japan forever.

The reason Japan is #2 is because the CDs in your country are so expensive (and overpriced), I mean 40 US dollars!!! CDs should be around 15 dollars. That's one advantage for K-pop, CDs are cheap and they have a lot of content like J-pop CDs has. Japanese music industry relied on obsessive collectors not casual music fans like people in US and Korea does.

Also Chinese and Taiwanese market is smaller then Korea, yet K-pop artists still sing Chinese and do Chinese-language album. So explain to me why several K-pop artists (Miss A, for example) do that over doing Japanese album?? See if K-pop artists can do Chinese-language album despite the Chinese market being small, then why can't J-pop do a Korean-language album and Chinese-language album even if the market is smaller then Japan.

As my previous post said, the deputy executive of SM Entertainment said Europe has more money then Japan and US combined. Europe is worth 7 trillion Won and Japan is worth 4 trillion Won. So why aren't J-pop doing more world tour or European tour, Teen Top did this last year and it was a success.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by mdo7

Japan maybe the 2nd largest market, but the US market is #1 yet western artists still do performances outside of US and do world tour when Japanese artists (a lot of them) have never done concerts outside of Japan or doing a world tour. We maybe #1 but US music industry never believed in self-sustain unlike Japan, that's why US music is exported outside of US.

Again we all know that this is a problem, you don't have to keep repeating it. However once you put a number to the issue, then it's very clear why Japan doesn't go out of their way to target the international market. It's very simple - you go try to convince your boss that you need to take a plane to another country to sell much less than the worth of the domestic market, a nice boss would smile and say it's good that you are being aggressive but also tell you to spend more time on the local market, while a bad boss will probably give you a nice beat down. Once in a while you might get a visionary which may ask you to crunch some numbers to justify your reasoning, but we also know these people don't come out often enough in business.

Now Japan's population decline is getting worse so they can't stay in Japan forever.

You keep saying that, but I haven't seen any sort of support for this. Also if the current music industry is supported by single otakus - and apparently 60% of Japanese male above 30 aren't getting married but are instead quite happily enjoying their hobbies, they have A LOT of time and money to spend on their hobbies before the industry is going to implode.

The reason Japan is #2 is because the CDs in your country are so expensive (and overpriced), I mean 40 US dollars!!! CDs should be around 15 dollars. That's one advantage for K-pop, CDs are cheap and they have a lot of content like J-pop CDs has. Japanese music industry relied on obsessive collectors not casual music fans like people in US and Korea does.

Not disagreeing however it doesn't matter, the bottom line is that their business model is successful and racks in tonnes of money for the industry, which makes changing even harder, and that makes your suggestion of using Kpop as a launch pad an absurd idea, because the income from using Kpop would be insignificant and won't be able to "shock" the Japanese execs. Majority of them are still going to look at the US as the single most viable market. They'd be strangling themselves for sure, but that doesn't mean your suggesting is the right solution either.

Also Chinese and Taiwanese market is smaller then Korea, yet K-pop artists still sing Chinese and do Chinese-language album. So explain to me why several K-pop artists (Miss A, for example) do that over doing Japanese album?? See if K-pop artists can do Chinese-language album despite the Chinese market being small, then why can't J-pop do a Korean-language album and Chinese-language album even if the market is smaller then Japan.

I'll tell you first why Kpop artists aren't doing Jpop now - because the Japanese people are sick of the Kanryu for various reasons - either social or political - for the past 2 years. There are open protests against local TV station Fuji TV for "shoving Kanryu (Korean pop-culture) down people's throats", attracting up to ten thousand protestors (protesting against popular culture, you have to say that's pretty out there, and how much do the Japanese people hate Korean stuff for the usually timit people to *protest* against *popular culture*). It's a very sensitive market right now, so Korea pulling back from Japan is completely understandable.

Now I'm going to ask you is doing different language album an actual trend, or is it just a fringe handful of cases? As for why a Chinese album is done for that particular case - who knows? Perhaps we have a particularly adventerous and business savy producer who saw potential, or a Chinese label who wants to diverse their portfolio, but until you can show that it is a major trend. I'm not going to put weight on it.

My hypothesis? Similar to how Hong Kong movie industry's budget ballooned such that their local market alone can no longer support the industry, Kpop production value has also gone up so they *must* expand outside of their domestic market (and I'll throw in the point now how this is *not* the case for Japan yet, as plenty evident by the sheer money size of their market) or else the revenue cannot support their expenditure. As I've said my pages earlier Asian cultures are inheritly more similar so the most logical expansion point is other Asian countries. Japan was a popular and most logical choice before (ref BoA, GG etc and the pure money size of the market) but due to political and social tension it is now off the table, that leaves growing economy like China as the next logical choice. Even if the population themselves aren't buying, at least the companies and music labels have moneys to burn for the licensing (many labels in China are owned by wealthy baby boomers with too much money, some of them ill-gotten, but money is money).

Also if you refer back to the earlier post of the market size of the different countries by worth - while China is lower than Korea, their money worth is not significantly lower (181 million vs 92 million), so China is at least half the size of the Korean market which makes an entrance into that market making a lot of sense. While in comparsion Korea and China combined is only worth 1/20th of the market of Japan (4 billion vs 280mil). The numbers speaks for themselves, the money of the other regions is simply insignificant for the Japanese to even have to care about the other Asia regions. Sad but true situation, and no wonder why Japan has such a No 2 complex in comparison to US and completely ignores the Asian region as I have said pages back.

As my previous post said, the deputy executive of SM Entertainment said Europe has more money then Japan and US combined. Europe is worth 7 trillion Won and Japan is worth 4 trillion Won. So why aren't J-pop doing more world tour or European tour, Teen Top did this last year and it was a success.

As another poster said, Europe is not a homogenous region nor a single market. Europe is many countries each with different laws, cultures and customs (and taxes, EU countries and non-EU countries have different currencys and taxes too), doing a single European tour might involve getting visas and permissions from 5~10 different countries, using another 5-10 different languages, and signing up another 5~10 local publishers/event organisers, once you actually divide up that cost the return might not be as significant as it seems. The fact you don't even realise this shows that you really need to learn some more real world business thinking.

Also Jpop artists had been doing world tours - Kyary Pamyu Pamyu is having her second one this year for example.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Again we all know that this is a problem, you don't have to keep repeating it. However once you put a number to the issue, then it's very clear why Japan doesn't go out of their way to target the international market. It's very simple - you go try to convince your boss that you need to take a plane to another country to sell much less than the worth of the domestic market, a nice boss would smile and say it's good that you are being aggressive but also tell you to spend more time on the local market, while a bad boss will probably give you a nice beat down. Once in a while you might get a visionary which may ask you to crunch some numbers to justify your reasoning, but we also know these people don't come out often enough in business.

Well I have enough evidence that the Japanese music exec will have to start globalizing J-pop. Let see:

-K-pop appearing more on American mainstream and in other part of the world. I just got this article today.
-Fuse TV recognize K-pop while J-pop continue to not taking their competition seriously and not cashing in on K-pop popularity.
-Because of the Hallyu, other Asian countries like Taiwan may try to replicate this. If Japan is not taken seriously, they'll fall behind their Korean and Taiwanese counterpart.

You keep saying that, but I haven't seen any sort of support for this. Also if the current music industry is supported by single otakus - and apparently 60% of Japanese male above 30 aren't getting married but are instead quite happily enjoying their hobbies, they have A LOT of time and money to spend on their hobbies before the industry is going to implode.

Yeah well these articles may surprise you, NSFW BTW:

AKB48 rage at "moral collapse" of idol otaku

idol otaku inflict "semen handshake"

These girls deserve better fans, I think they would be comfortable with their general and international fans rather then these otaku.

Not disagreeing however it doesn't matter, the bottom line is that their business model is successful and racks in tonnes of money for the industry, which makes changing even harder, and that makes your suggestion of using Kpop as a launch pad an absurd idea, because the income from using Kpop would be insignificant and won't be able to "shock" the Japanese execs. Majority of them are still going to look at the US as the single most viable market. They'd be strangling themselves for sure, but that doesn't mean your suggesting is the right solution either.

Well it worked for Little Mix, they got a lot of attention from mainstream music news when they did a Korean-language version of one of their song. Little Mix got a lot of attention from K-pop fans around the world when they did the Korean version of that song. Now I'm sure if an American girl group like Fifth Harmony did a Korean-language version of their hit song, it'll get a lot of attention from K-pop fans all over the world. Taiwan and their Taiwanese pop may try to enter Korea and sing in Korean to get K-pop fans around the world attention to Taiwanese pop.

So I thought if Little Mix can manage to get a lot of attention around the world from both mainstream music fans and K-pop fans for doing a Korean version of their song, why not have J-pop artists/idols do the same by crossing over to K-pop. If J-pop artists did this, then J-pop fans around the world can buy their Korean-language album easily since Korea doesn't have draconian copyright law unlike Japan and Korea can put the J-pop idols/artists Korean-language album on Itunes and at stores where they sell K-pop CDs and J-pop fans around the world can support these J-pop artists/idols by buying their Korean-language albums. That's the only way for these J-pop artists to know they have international fans, and to show Japanese music exec a reason to globalize J-pop and to follow South Korea's method on how to give J-pop the same push like K-pop did.

I'll tell you first why Kpop artists aren't doing Jpop now - because the Japanese people are sick of the Kanryu for various reasons - either social or political - for the past 2 years. There are open protests against local TV station Fuji TV for "shoving Kanryu (Korean pop-culture) down people's throats", attracting up to ten thousand protestors (protesting against popular culture, you have to say that's pretty out there, and how much do the Japanese people hate Korean stuff for the usually timit people to *protest* against *popular culture*). It's a very sensitive market right now, so Korea pulling back from Japan is completely understandable.

That's funny because if what you said is true, why are K-pop popularity in Japan is still strong:

BTS hold a successful fanmeet in Japan

NU'EST hold successful fanmeet in Japan

Rain hold succesful fanmeet in Japan, attracted 5,000 fans

BigBang succesfully completed Japanese tour attracting 771,000 Japanese fans

BEAST Japan concert sell out, additional concert date added

Why are K-pop act continuing to top oricon chart??

TVXQ rank no.10 on Oricon year-end chart

Super Junior Super Show 5 DVD#3 on Oricon chart

So if Japanese are tired of K-pop, why am I see these articles and seeing K-pop still appearing high on the oricon chart.

Now I'm going to ask you is doing different language album an actual trend, or is it just a fringe handful of cases? As for why a Chinese album is done for that particular case - who knows? Perhaps we have a particularly adventerous and business savy producer who saw potential, or a Chinese label who wants to diverse their portfolio, but until you can show that it is a major trend. I'm not going to put weight on it.

Actually, there are still K-pop artists that still target Chinese/Taiwanese music market:

SM and JYP Entertainment target the Chinese market and they take them seriously no matter if they're smaller then Korea and Japan. They always cater to Chinese audiences, there are other entertainment companies in Korea that take Chinese market seriously.

My hypothesis? Similar to how Hong Kong movie industry's budget ballooned such that their local market alone can no longer support the industry, Kpop production value has also gone up so they *must* expand outside of their domestic market (and I'll throw in the point now how this is *not* the case for Japan yet, as plenty evident by the sheer money size of their market) or else the revenue cannot support their expenditure. As I've said my pages earlier Asian cultures are inheritly more similar so the most logical expansion point is other Asian countries. Japan was a popular and most logical choice before (ref BoA, GG etc and the pure money size of the market) but due to political and social tension it is now off the table, that leaves growing economy like China as the next logical choice. Even if the population themselves aren't buying, at least the companies and music labels have moneys to burn for the licensing (many labels in China are owned by wealthy baby boomers with too much money, some of them ill-gotten, but money is money).

Also if you refer back to the earlier post of the market size of the different countries by worth - while China is lower than Korea, their money worth is not significantly lower (181 million vs 92 million), so China is at least half the size of the Korean market which makes an entrance into that market making a lot of sense. While in comparsion Korea and China combined is only worth 1/20th of the market of Japan (4 billion vs 280mil). The numbers speaks for themselves, the money of the other regions is simply insignificant for the Japanese to even have to care about the other Asia regions. Sad but true situation, and no wonder why Japan has such a No 2 complex in comparison to US and completely ignores the Asian region as I have said pages back.

Well that and Korean are ambitious, Japan doesn't have this ambition like their Korean counterpart. As I said, if Japan is not taking their Asian neighbors seriously, they'll fall behind. Now I saw this on Youtube:

If China or even Taiwan managed to pull this off, and Japan doesn't then the Japanese will lose competitive edge. It's not too late, Japan can still adapt the K-idol training for their idols, and if they focus on global market, then J-pop can compete with K-pop on a global scale, otherwise C-pop will become the next Asian pop to get popular outside of Asia. As I said, Taiwan is sharing a similar ambition to South Korea:

Taiwan Ministry of Culture-Pop music industry upgrade and development

Billboard Biz: First Annual Music Industry Conference Taiwan Looks Chinese Music Market, Exporting to the West

As another poster said, Europe is not a homogenous region nor a single market. Europe is many countries each with different laws, cultures and customs (and taxes, EU countries and non-EU countries have different currencys and taxes too), doing a single European tour might involve getting visas and permissions from 5~10 different countries, using another 5-10 different languages, and signing up another 5~10 local publishers/event organisers, once you actually divide up that cost the return might not be as significant as it seems. The fact you don't even realise this shows that you really need to learn some more real world business thinking.

Also Jpop artists had been doing world tours - Kyary Pamyu Pamyu is having her second one this year for example.

K-pop is getting a lot of attention in Europe that include UK so that's not going to stop K-pop artists from topping the European music charts. Also Europeans are more open-minded to foreign music then American are because Europeans listen to their neighbor music that are not native language. Also Europeans don't have dancing idol as I said, you don't see One Direction don't do any dance like Super Junior, Infinite, TVXQ. Also Little Mix dance can't hold candle to K-pop girl group. So K-pop can take over Europe when they're ready. As of now, K-pop is making big headlines in UK and France.

Kyary and Perfume are the only one that care about their international fans. I don't see AKB48 doing a world tour, I don't see Hey! Say! JUMP nor EXILE doing tours unlike Super Junior and Infinite. What's going to happen when Taiwanese pop pull this off globally and Japan fall behind and their population decline get much worse??

[KiraYamatoFan]

All I say to this is simple: executives who don't try pushing for globalization of J-Pop aggressively enough for whatever reason they may come with should be sacked or be forced to resign, plain and simple.

For the record and like many people, I'm pissed off that K-Pop is finding a way to expand worldwide like a trail of powder while J-Pop is not following quickly enough to make a solid reply.

@houkoholic: I strongly believe that several heads need to roll here among the executives of the Japanese music industry. Do you feel the same? It's just my opinion, but when the old leaders' vision doesn't fit with reality any longer, cleaning house at the top is the next step for the sake of any company moving forward.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

All I say to this is simple: executives who don't try pushing for globalization of J-Pop aggressively enough for whatever reason they may come with should be sacked or be forced to resign, plain and simple.

For the record and like many people, I'm pissed off that K-Pop is finding a way to expand worldwide like a trail of powder while J-Pop is not following quickly enough to make a solid reply.

@houkoholic: I strongly believe that several heads need to roll here among the executives of the Japanese music industry. Do you feel the same? It's just my opinion, but when the old leaders' vision doesn't fit with reality any longer, cleaning house at the top is the next step for the sake of any company moving forward.

This just goes to reinforce why global expansion is critical for growing industries nowadays in any field, simply because expanding markets provide greater resources for reinvestment in improving a product, whereas a closed system gets strangled resource-wise in such a condition. Japan's approach only works in an equilibrium state with little growth globally, which of course is not the case either now or even 30 years earlier.

[asaqe]

I say that at least for JPOP to gain some respect it should at least try to improve it's "domestic" reputation, a couple of token groups with American friendly concepts like FAKY for example but done by giants like King and Johnny will go a long way to at least stabilize the reputation Japan has been facing lately with the huge amount of "Japan Hate" articles on the internet in terms of pop culture.

I am most concerned though if Japan will wind up facing a Blink 182 "All the Small Things" style mockery from Korea who realize that it would be more effective to be in bed with the US by supporting their culture by viciously attacking Japanese Pop and abandoning the market in both sales and concepts that is seemingly toxic to Japan (genuine sexiness from 2008-current idol groups ala AKB48 for example, hip hop/dubsteb music tracks). One major advantage KPOP has lately is that is literally bows at the feet of American music for approval, it follows their trends faithfully and brings it back home and worships the ground Beyonce walks on for girl groups.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

All I say to this is simple: executives who don't try pushing for globalization of J-Pop aggressively enough for whatever reason they may come with should be sacked or be forced to resign, plain and simple.

For the record and like many people, I'm pissed off that K-Pop is finding a way to expand worldwide like a trail of powder while J-Pop is not following quickly enough to make a solid reply.

@houkoholic: I strongly believe that several heads need to roll here among the executives of the Japanese music industry. Do you feel the same? It's just my opinion, but when the old leaders' vision doesn't fit with reality any longer, cleaning house at the top is the next step for the sake of any company moving forward.

Originally Posted by aldw

This just goes to reinforce why global expansion is critical for growing industries nowadays in any field, simply because expanding markets provide greater resources for reinvestment in improving a product, whereas a closed system gets strangled resource-wise in such a condition. Japan's approach only works in an equilibrium state with little growth globally, which of course is not the case either now or even 30 years earlier.

Thank you!!! Yes, as I said Japan can't keep their music in Japan forever, I mean K-pop has became the first Asian pop music to get mainstream popularity outside of Asia. Something J-pop nor C-pop/Taiwanese pop wasn't able to do. Now because K-pop was the first to do this, it's motivating other Asian countries like China, Taiwan, and Indonesia to try replicating this on the global level, while Japan is not taking this seriously. As I said, if Japan is not taking the international market nor their neighbor seriously, they'll fall behind and they won't be much of a competition to Korean and Chinese. If Japan is not going to do it, then Taiwan may end up making Chinese pop/Taiwanese pop popular outside of Asia. Also the population decline will have to force Japan to start globalizing J-pop at some point.

Also I just got this news today from Kpopstarz.

Originally Posted by asaqe

I say that at least for JPOP to gain some respect it should at least try to improve it's "domestic" reputation, a couple of token groups with American friendly concepts like FAKY for example but done by giants like King and Johnny will go a long way to at least stabilize the reputation Japan has been facing lately with the huge amount of "Japan Hate" articles on the internet in terms of pop culture.

I am most concerned though if Japan will wind up facing a Blink 182 "All the Small Things" style mockery from Korea who realize that it would be more effective to be in bed with the US by supporting their culture by viciously attacking Japanese Pop and abandoning the market in both sales and concepts that is seemingly toxic to Japan (genuine sexiness from 2008-current idol groups ala AKB48 for example, hip hop/dubsteb music tracks). One major advantage KPOP has lately is that is literally bows at the feet of American music for approval, it follows their trends faithfully and brings it back home and worships the ground Beyonce walks on for girl groups.

K-pop and Korea got a lot of bashing and hate, but it didn't stop K-pop from dominating the world and becoming the first Asian pop to gain global recognition and mainstream popularity outside of Asia. So Japan need to grow some ball and learn from their Korean counterpart. Also Japan IMO is sort of withdrawing itself from international society, it's like they don't care if Korea is getting more global recognition then them. Japan isn't as advanced as it used to be, now it's South Korea, they now have been ranked #1 on ICT/IT development for 3 straight years, while Japan continue to fall on IT/ICT development. South Korea is getting a lot of attention around the world for various field like technology, medical tourism, fashion, film, and in Europe, K-classic are now gaining a lot of attention and it was a subject of a documentary done by Belgium.

Japanese musicians used to dominate that field, but now this is not the case anymore, Koreans are taking up all the attention, Japan is sort of falling behind and not putting any desire to compete with Korean on the classical music field. As I said, Japan is withdrawing itself and I guess the Galapago Syndrome is still there, the changes from Galapagos is really slow.

I say this as a long time anime fan and a newly enchanted K-pop/Hallyu fan, South Korea play this game better then Japan.

EDIT 1:

I read this article from KBS World about how Japan can learn from their Korean counterpart. I seem to agreed with what the Wall Street Journal said about what Japan can learn from South Korea, I'm going to quote the article KBS World put:

The Wall Street Journal says Japan should learn from South Korea, noting Seoul’s domestic reforms are leading to growth without devaluation.

The journal said Japan is sticking to old-time fiscal stimulus and a weak yen, while South Korea is more willing to tolerate a stronger currency and remove unnecessary regulations in the service industries, pushing for domestic reforms.

WSJ also said Seoul has been more active and quicker than Tokyo in concluding free trade agreements with many countries and it is now benefiting from competition by opening up its domestic market.

The paper said Korean companies have competed globally by improving quality despite Japan’s weakening of the yen, noting Apple’s leading challenge is Samsung, not a Japanese company.

That is the reason why South Korea's GDP will surpass Japan soon, because South Korea know how the global market work while Japan is focused too much on Domestic and US market only.

[mdo7]

Oh great, The Korean government's minstry of culture is now pushing Hallyu brand worldwide. As I said, South Korea is playing this better then how Japan did "Cool Japan".

Yep Japan can learn from this if they take it seriously.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Just don't push it too far though, mdo7. You're starting to sound like Piers Morgan.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Just don't push it too far though, mdo7. You're starting to sound like Piers Morgan.

What does that mean?

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Libros

What does that mean?

Overdo something and end up getting hated by everyone for it.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Overdo something and end up getting hated by everyone for it.

Oh I see. Maybe It's because I don't watch enough of his TV shows but I've never noticed that.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Libros

Oh I see. Maybe It's because I don't watch enough of his TV shows but I've never noticed that.

He's a lot worse on Twitter than on TV. Anyway, end of the off-topic part.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Just don't push it too far though, mdo7. You're starting to sound like Piers Morgan.

I'm not and I show concern for Japan when it comes to not taking J-pop seriously the same way Korea has done for K-pop.

[ultimate_noob]

^ Oh really? I thought you were a troll.

JPOP isn't on a crisis, so you don't need to be worried about it. They have customers.

[mdo7]

Originally Posted by ultimate_noob

^ Oh really? I thought you were a troll.

JPOP isn't on a crisis, so you don't need to be worried about it. They have customers.

So you don't care if K-pop is getting more attention then their Japanese counterpart. I mean wouldn't you want AKB48 do a world tour, or at least do a English, Korean, and Chinese-language album because I would love to see that and I want to see J-pop being able to compete with K-pop on a worldwide scale. What about other J-pop group, wouldn't you want them coming to your area and do a concert because K-pop is doing more concerts outside of Asia more frequently.

Look, if you didn't read my other posts Japan's population is not really getting any bigger, that and Japan's music sale is not really that self-sustain as everybody thought. Also Japan's not taking their competition seriously. As I said, because of the K-pop/Hallyu becoming the first of it's kind coming out of Asia, other Asian countries (like Taiwan) are going to try to replicate what South Korea did. If Japan is not going to take this seriously, they'll fall behind and it's very likely that Taiwan could become the 2nd Asian country to replicate a wave like the Hallyu.

[ultimate_noob]

^ I don't care if Kpop or Tpop or Cpop whatever pop you have in mind will get more attention than jpop. In fact I, and you , should feel happy that other asian countries' music industry is also flourishing.

Look, Japan's birth rate is low but everyday babies are still being made here. If the low population can't sustain the market as you believe it will, then it is only natural for Japan's music industry to shrink and not because Japan is not taking the industry seriously(lol). This not a competition on who gets attention the most, who gets more money, who gets to hold an asian tour.

You're participating yourself in a contest between jpop vs kpop when in reality there is no contest at all.