Knights of sidonia

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Tranhieu

Did she? I thought she was just speaking to herself.

To me Kobayashi is quite an evil one. Rather than sentencing Ochiai to death after his arrest according to laws, she decided to keep the brain alive and tormented him for centuries instead, which is way more horrible than death itself.

Ochiai made it so his brain was the key to Sidonia's last technical archive containing all the knowledge of the human race. It's something that he brought upon himself.

Although you'd think that once they use Ochiai's brain to unencrypt the archives, they'd come in with a mountain of Blu-ray discs to make backups, and attempt to construct backup archives ... unless Ochiai went out of his way to delete every copy of Nero in existence, or something.

[Anh_Minh]

What Alhazred said.

Plus, Ochiai's only being tormented when they need to access the lost knowledge. Otherwise, he's just some kind of dormant personality within his clone.

Originally Posted by Tranhieu

She also managed to sneak Tanikaze into the academy, then dealed with the Council to make him his favorite pilot, and even gave him Hiro's frame all by herself. She wants to make the most out of anyone she's interested in, but when situations call for, she's not afraid of compromising.

Making him sortie all the time's just a compromise with the Immortal Council, not really her idea.

Originally Posted by GMT

Ochiai made it so his brain was the key to Sidonia's last technical archive containing all the knowledge of the human race. It's something that he brought upon himself.

Although you'd think that once they use Ochiai's brain to unencrypt the archives, they'd come in with a mountain of Blu-ray discs to make backups, and attempt to construct backup archives ... unless Ochiai went out of his way to delete every copy of Nero in existence, or something.

I think it's what they do every time they access the archives, but they can't copy it all in one go. Physiological limits, probably. And there is a lot to copy, so it takes time.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by GMT

They've been war buddies and Immortals for some five hundred years. And then, after the lobotomy, he's been a faithful, if slow, servant for another hundred, so they have lots of history.

Come to think of it, she's pretty indulgent with all her old immortal buddies. She's tolerant of Hiyama, even though Hiyama mostly yells at her for being an asshole. Presumably she could've had Grandpa Badass (Hiro) hunted down, but chose to acquiesce to his desire to die; and she has a soft-spot for his immortal clone Tanikaze, to the point where she protects him from the Immortal Council (mostly by trying get him killed in combat, but still.)

They're basically the only people she can be close with. All the non-immortal people are probably like ants to her.

[DMurphy]

Kobayashi doesn't seem like a bad egg. It seems like they have no choice but to keep Ochiai around, and whatever he did to the Sidonia was, by the sounds of it, pretty awful, and by implication seems to be related to the incident with Gauna breaching the ship.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

There were no kabi on it when the Gauna destroyed Earth.

Originally Posted by GMT

As has been said, that idea worked great for Human civilization post-First Contact with the Gauna, since they had no kabi and ... oh wait, which show is this again ... right, Battlestar Galactica with giant robots. The Gauna might be attracted to starfaring civilizations since, if I remember the backstory, Human explorers encountered them a couple of centuries before ... and then the Gauna just happened to turn up to destroy Sol System after that. Pretty quickly too, by the standards of a universe with no FTL.

It might be that the only way they'll survive, in the long run, is find a quiet, habitable planet, drop everybody off, send Sidonia on autopilot into the local sun, and swear off advanced technology ... or, in-universe, drop off the pacifists, while Sidonia goes off and pokes the Gauna in the eye to draw attention away from the new colony.

Originally Posted by Kamui04

The hole in that assumption is that the Gauna invaded and destroyed the Earth long before they got the Kabizashis.

Well then, I guess I stand corrected. Screw it, I was trying to give the gauna cult some type of justification for their hippie-like ways, but it was for naught.

I'm contemplating reading the manga to gain a more in-depth understanding of things. This is probably one of those times where doing that would've proved beneficial. XD

And it isn't En. She was one of the casualties of Kunato's sabotage and is still in a coma. Hoshijiro and En were replaced by Ren and Hou, although Hou was killed by Benizusume. So only Tanikaze is the remaining member of the original 4.

This is what happens when all of them look the damn same. lol Guess Tanikaze's flying solo...

[Traece]

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Well then, I guess I stand corrected. Screw it, I was trying to give the gauna cult some type of justification for their hippie-like ways, but it was for naught.

They're just your typical "crazy ignorant people" faction. No different than Space Battleship Yamato or the several other space opera-style. There's always a dissenting faction that conveniently forgets the entire reason why they've come on this mission and goes, "you know what sounds good? Dying. Let's go die!" Not unlike every other show where this happens, it doesn't make sense in Sidonia either.

Someone mentioned the history of the Kabizashi. If I remember correctly what happened was they found them after Sidonia had set off, and were able to fend off the Gauna and begin this 100-year peace that they're all so wild about. That's why there was all that drama about keeping the father alive, because he was their greatest pilot. This is also why they didn't search too terribly hard for him. He went off to raise his kid his own way, rather than being cloned and kept alive through various means.

Spoiler for My current Sidonia plot theory:

Someone said something interesting the other day that spurred on an idea. My running theory at present is that the Kabizashi is responsible for their peace, until they started moving toward the Gauna's core territory (either intentionally, or unintentionally. The former is more sinister, so I'm banking on that). After all, the Gauna are the primary antagonist, so at some point it's expected that we'll find out exactly what they are, and for a show like this I expect that to hinge on them finding the Gauna's homeworld/hivemind/whatevertheheck.

[Triple_R]

The pacifist faction simply wants the Gauna fighting to stop. That shouldn't be hard to understand given the massive casualties saw in Episode 4.

In a desperate bit to try to escape a sort of war-torn existence, they've bought into what's probably a pretty lie. It's not smart, but it's understandable, in my view. People who are desperately displeased with their current circumstances tend to be more susceptible to pretty lies, and ignoring some factors that may reveal the truth of that lie.

I think that some here are being a bit too condemning of this faction.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The pacifist faction simply wants the Gauna fighting to stop. That shouldn't be hard to understand given the massive casualties saw in Episode 4.

In a desperate bit to try to escape a sort of war-torn existence, they've bought into what's probably a pretty lie. It's not smart, but it's understandable, in my view. People who are desperately displeased with their current circumstances tend to be more susceptible to pretty lies, and ignoring some factors that may reveal the truth of that lie.

I think that some here are being a bit too condemning of this faction.

I do not think that the guana can be stopped.

All the Humans have been doing for a millennia is fleeing, and the guana pursuing and attacking whenever they catch up.

The anti military faction grew out of a century of non contact. That is now over. The choice before the remnant aboard Sidonia to die, or successfully break contact and evade pursuit. The latter is the option to which Captain Kobiyashi subscribes.

I fear the colonists bound for the planet are in grave danger, and they have made a very foolish choice. Since the very survival of the human race may be at stake, such a decision is worthy of condemnation.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

I do not think that the guana can be stopped.

So are you saying that they're completely unbeatable?

All the Humans have been doing for a millennia is fleeing, and the guana pursuing and attacking whenever they catch up.

The anti military faction grew out of a century of non contact.

True. So, all of a sudden, after a full century of non contact, Sidonia is now getting much more frequently attacked by the gauna.

Doesn't it just make sense to ask "Why?" about that? Why is the gauna going after us now, and so frequently, when we went a fully century without having contact with them?

The choice before the remnant aboard Sidonia to die, or successfully break contact and evade pursuit. The latter is the option to which Captain Kobiyashi subscribes.

Not exactly. Kobiyashi favors fighting back. A lot.

I fear the colonists bound for the planet are in grave danger, and they have made a very foolish choice.

Possible. But their decision is understandable.

Since the very survival of the human race may be at stake, such a decision is worthy of condemnation.

I disagree. The pacifists who wanted to leave would likely cause Sidonia more trouble than good if forced to stay.

If the pacifists are wrong in their belief about the Kabizashis drawing the gauna, then having that mistaken opinion removed from the Sidonia populace is probably for the best.

If the pacifists are right in their belief about the Kabizashis drawing the gauna, then they may well be successful in starting a small colony on an alien world. Which would almost certainly be good news for the human race.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by GMT

They've been war buddies and Immortals for some five hundred years. And then, after the lobotomy, he's been a faithful, if slow, servant for another hundred, so they have lots of history.

Come to think of it, she's pretty indulgent with all her old immortal buddies. She's tolerant of Hiyama, even though Hiyama mostly yells at her for being an asshole. Presumably she could've had Grandpa Badass (Hiro) hunted down, but chose to acquiesce to his desire to die; and she has a soft-spot for his immortal clone Tanikaze, to the point where she protects him from the Immortal Council (mostly by trying get him killed in combat, but still.)

Hiyama is still the closest thing besides Yure she has for a friend though...They all piloted together before after all.

But Ochiai, well he isn't exactly safe to be with....

Originally Posted by Tranhieu

Did she? I thought she was just speaking to herself.

To me Kobayashi is quite an evil one. Rather than sentencing Ochiai to death after his arrest according to laws, she decided to keep the brain alive and tormented him for centuries instead, which is way more horrible than death itself.

She also managed to sneak Tanikaze into the academy, then dealed with the Council to make him his favorite pilot, and even gave him Hiro's frame all by herself. She wants to make the most out of anyone she's interested in, but when situations call for, she's not afraid of compromising.

She still has him in his docile, mindwiped state as a personal aide.....

I can't see her as evil per se, just burdened with leading a brutal war. And she still has more of a personality than those ancients in their pods...

[Mubyoshi]

Hm... and now I wonder, can a human and gauna breed? ahahah.

[AcroDave]

Holy montage batman! I was expecting them to skip ahead a few manga chapters, but that whole sequence in the middle was just... jarring. The way they blew through 4 Guana victories, with happy music playing in the background, and snapshots of smiling pilots felt like it was from a different show. What happened to that heavy atmosphere and feeling of tension?? Ugh.

Originally Posted by Tranhieu

For some strange reason I really like the fact that they skipped the battles to give Hoshijiro more screen time. She definitely reached the level of moe there with that toddler like speech.

Placenta-Hoshijiro was very cute, but it felt weird that we kept cutting to shots of Tanikaze gazing at her lovingly with puppy dog eyes. I kept hearing some other music playing in my head. I don't know, that whole sequence felt out of place. Though I did think it was hilarious how Izana and Yuhata acknowleged that placenta-girl is winning the harem and were brainstorming how to beat her.

On the side note I have no idea where the anime is going. It hasn't deviated from the manga yet all the events are mixed up in a weird way. The bright side is that manga readers now can look forward to the upcoming episodes with anticipation.

Yeah, episode 8 aligned pretty much exactly with manga chapter 11. Then this episode blew through 3 (4?) chapters. Now I have no idea where we are. From the preview: Next episode we see Izana no longer wearing the trainee uniform (chapter 16), our trio going on a trip in casual clothes (chapter 18), and Tsugumori in some kind of hanger (chapter 19?). I'm guessing they're skipping the events in 16-17, or moving them to episode 11? Madness! And I still don't see any logical place to end this season...

Originally Posted by Decel

Hey, doesn't Izana ever wonder why her grandma is as hot or hotter than her own mother?!?

I was thinking about that: since the Honoka sisters/clones are all 5 years old, but appear to be ~16, then it would follow that 'accelerated development' is commonplace. Also, we don't ever see any children in Sidonia. So if your child can reproduce at ~10 years of age (5 years in a tank / 5 years in 'real life'), you could easily be a grandparent before you're 30.

.

[ChainLegacy]

Wait, there's no faster than light travel? Are they traveling at/near the speed of light? By cosmological standards, they aren't very far away then, even with 600 years of travel under their belts. If they are traveling at light speed, then they would have reached the recently discovered Kepler-186f, at least.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Wait, there's no faster than light travel? Are they traveling at/near the speed of light?

Nope. It'd be very obvious if they were anywhere near the speed of light. For one thing, everything would be quite blue ahead and quite red behind Sidonia (hello relativistic effects!) At best, she's only doing a few percent of the speed of light. If she's doing, say, 5% the speed of light, in a thousand years, they'd be just about fifty light years from Sol. If they went 50% the speed of light (which is in the ballpark of the fastest you can hope to build a rocket of any sort, including the sort using antimatter ... which Sidonia obviously has none of, since large quantities of antimatter would've turned their Gauna problem into a bunch of neutrinos and some high-energy gamma rays,) they'd get to about 500 light years from Sol.

But, given that Sidonia is a generation ship, chances are, it's going to be on the low end of the scale.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by GMT

Nope. It'd be very obvious if they were anywhere near the speed of light. For one thing, everything would be quite blue ahead and quite red behind Sidonia (hello relativistic effects!) At best, she's only doing a few percent of the speed of light. If she's doing, say, 5% the speed of light, in a thousand years, they'd be just about fifty light years from Sol. If they went 50% the speed of light (which is in the ballpark of the fastest you can hope to build a rocket of any sort, including the sort using antimatter ... which Sidonia obviously has none of, since large quantities of antimatter would've turned their Gauna problem into a bunch of neutrinos and some high-energy gamma rays,) they'd get to about 500 light years from Sol.

But, given that Sidonia is a generation ship, chances are, it's going to be on the low end of the scale.

They blew up a gas giant a few episodes ago. And the Gauna were unscathed. I don't think antimatter would work either: I'm pretty sure Gauna defy known laws of physics (they generate mass out of nowhere, for one thing). And that's not a plothole, it's intentional characterization of them as alien and unknowable.

[ChainLegacy]

Another thing that's been vague to me: are the pacifists being dropped off on an Earth-like planet, or a new ship? Also, as a "seed ship" is their end goal to reach an Earth replacement planet? I don't think this has been definitely explained, though hints have been dropped here and there.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Another thing that's been vague to me: are the pacifists being dropped off on an Earth-like planet, or a new ship? Also, as a "seed ship" is their end goal to reach an Earth replacement planet? I don't think this has been definitely explained, though hints have been dropped here and there.

The pacifists are being given permission to settle the 7th planet of the Lem system. Whether it's earthlike or not is unclear, but terraforming technology was accessed just for them so they certainly plan on living on it. But Sidonia itself won't change course for them so they're leaving in a large shuttle rather than being dropped off directly.

Kobayashi doesn't seem to plan on stopping until the Gauna threat is gone entirely, so whatever mission they have as a seed ship is currently on hold, dissenting opinions aside.

[RollingPenguin]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Another thing that's been vague to me: are the pacifists being dropped off on an Earth-like planet, or a new ship? Also, as a "seed ship" is their end goal to reach an Earth replacement planet? I don't think this has been definitely explained, though hints have been dropped here and there.

I think they are being dropped of merely to a new ship and they will independently search for planet that can through terraforming sustain life.

Holy montage batman! I was expecting them to skip ahead a few manga chapters, but that whole sequence in the middle was just... jarring. The way they blew through 4 Guana victories, with happy music playing in the background, and snapshots of smiling pilots felt like it was from a different show. What happened to that heavy atmosphere and feeling of tension?? Ugh.

If the show continually has just one atmosphere ,it starts to feel very one-note and boring.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by Clarste

They blew up a gas giant a few episodes ago. And the Gauna were unscathed. I don't think antimatter would work either: I'm pretty sure Gauna defy known laws of physics (they generate mass out of nowhere, for one thing). And that's not a plothole, it's intentional characterization of them as alien and unknowable.

Yes, they blew up the gas giant (the interesting question is how they did that. The dialogue suggests an 'implosion', which might mean they temporarily did what the Monoliths did to Jupiter in 2010) ... but a gas giant is a very big thing. If the Gauna were hiding in the gas giant's clouds, they'd be quite a long way from where all the explodey bits were taking place ... and we already know the Gauna cores can survive huge kinetic energy transfers. And we can also assume they hold up to ionizing radiation just fine, since high-energy particle beams only strip away the goo.

So that implies that the core is made up of something that has a tensile strength on the same order as the strong nuclear force. And there are plenty of really exotic ways of dealing with really exotic matter ... antimatter, strangelets, and singularities; to name a few. Again ... none of which Sidonia seems to have.

Of course, the core could simply be some kind of arbitrary force field generated by the Gauna hiding out inside. The notion that the Gauna core is an arbitrary force field would fit well with the other properties we've observed with the Gauna ... for example, the fact that they routinely give gravity the finger, and the fact that they can accelerate or decelerate without the use of rocket motors. (They may also be using this field in some way to manufacture mass by way of harvesting the virtual particles that appear and disappear from vacuum ... which means the Gauna routinely sodomize basic thermodynamics with a chainsaw.)

Going down this road suggests a mechanism for how the kabi functions. It might be some sort of specially-engineered material structure that interferes with whatever spacetime voodoo the Gauna is doing to create its core field.

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Another thing that's been vague to me: are the pacifists being dropped off on an Earth-like planet, or a new ship? Also, as a "seed ship" is their end goal to reach an Earth replacement planet? I don't think this has been definitely explained, though hints have been dropped here and there.

It sounds like they're being deposited on a planet that can be made Earth-like within a reasonable timeframe (hence them accessing the archives for terraforming technlology.) Curiously, though, the planet they're choosing is the seventh planet of the system they're heading toward. Which suggests it's either a really busy place, compared to Sol System, or its primary is much brighter and hotter than Sol.

And it sounds like their original destination was the Lem star system whose seventh planet they were depositing the pacifists on (this was mentioned in an earlier episode.) So Sidonia was originally intended to colonize the seventh planet wholesale ... except Sidonia's imperatives got switched around during the 1000 years of its flight. Now they've got Admiral Cain Kobayashi in the CO's slot, and she seems to have made it the ship's mission simply to kill Gauna.

Mind you, in her defense, there's a super-sized Gauna hive tailing them at a distance of 3.5 light years. That means Lem is no longer the desirable real estate that it was when Sidonia launched, since the Gauna will show up in force in a few decades (which would make Kobayashi less Helena Cain and more Bill Adama.)

EDIT:

Unrelated to the above discussion, I've just come up with an evil, evil thought experiment.

As we all know, Hoshijiro not-of-Borg did the right thing for Sidonia's long-term survival by going back to save Tanikaze. Yes, there was a lot of "sacrifice for my beloved" overtones to it, but Hoshijiro's a smart one. She gets that a pilot of Tanikaze's caliber is worth more than entire squads of other pilots ... or one Hoshijiro (and she's no slouch ... if I recall correctly, she's just behind Kunato in the sim rankings.)

So the thought experiment of the day is: What if Hoshijiro was a second too slow, and the Gauna waxes Tanikaze's ass? How would things have turned out for Sidonia if, instead of Tanikaze and friends facing down Hoshijiro of Borg, it was Kunato, Hoshijiro, and friends facing down Tanikaze of Borg ... and the Gauna had his raw skill to draw upon?

[apotheosis]

I couldn't find a Lem star system.

Rather than a real star, it's likely a reference to the polish Sci Fi author: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Lem