Gundam Reconguista in G - Anime General Discussion

[brightman]

Originally Posted by monster

The point is that, if there are such discrepancies, then it would be harder to reconcile the timelines. By comparison, differences in knowledge and technological progress can be reconciled easily, unless time is a factor. From the impression I get, not only is it depleted, but it is depleted in a more recent and known past. If that is a general rule across all (or at least more than one) of the timelines, then that might a point of interest.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I dont see how you can explain, say, oil being recently used up in the Middle East in 00 for example when it was already used up in a different timeline. No real way to explain it other than, as the Turn X manual says, "nano machines".

[Der Langrisser]

Originally Posted by mangakid95

Even with the loss of technology/knowledge, humanity (RL & not fiction) has always moved on without looking back. That's why we're at the peak of of technological achievements today. Humanity has never regressed technology-wise.

One such example: We've successfully made modern batteries without even knowing about the ancient ones. The ancient battery was discovered long after we had already reinvented the concept. link

Sorry, but I have to nitpick your exemple; the Ancient Batteries (also known as Baghdad Battery) weren't batteries, but were instead used to store papyrus scrolls.
Also, using crypto-archeology articles isn't a good idea in general.

[Patriot's Blade]

inb4 Tomino reintroduced the Age System along with its Wears gimmick made by the Age Builder, & the EXA DB, well since he already reused the SHINING FINGER!!! attack & Mobile Trace System,

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by monster

The point is that, if there are such discrepancies, then it would be harder to reconcile the timelines. By comparison, differences in knowledge and technological progress can be reconciled easily, unless time is a factor. From the impression I get, not only is it depleted, but it is depleted in a more recent and known past. If that is a general rule across all (or at least more than one) of the timelines, then that might a point of interest.

I agree.

But I think you should just give up. It’s glaringly obvious that they don’t think much about the little details (or any detail for that matter) regarding the continuity. Whatever continuity errors they face, Sunrise/Bandai will just brush it off with “lolmoonlight butterfly” and “lolnanomachines” and then slapped the “official” stamp on top of it, bypassing all logic and critical thinking. So let’s not waste any more brain-cells trying to make heads or tails of this continuity. It might work for UC, RC, CC and to some extend, FC & CE. But other timelines? I don’t think so.

So yeah, this "shared-continuity" remains bogus to me. At least until Tomino somehow comes up with a brilliant and logical idea of how to merge all series into one timeline. We might get it when G-Reco airs. Who knows?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I agree.

But I think you should just give up. It’s glaringly obvious that they don’t think much about the little details (or any detail for that matter) regarding the continuity. Whatever continuity errors they face, Sunrise/Bandai will just brush it off with “lolmoonlight butterfly” and “lolnanomachines” and then slapped the “official” stamp on top of it, bypassing all logic and critical thinking. So let’s not waste any more brain-cells trying to make heads or tails of this continuity. It might work for UC, RC, CC and to some extend, FC & CE. But other timelines? I don’t think so.

Works very well for AW and AG too... Since both eras take place after another calendar era that's not AD, and had tech resets basically built into their world views. Plus both shows sort of have Newtypes as a key element (I think X-Rounders are basically Newtypes under a different name, unlike Innovators and Coordinators)

I think the only one that really doesn't work well is Gundam 00. Like I said two pages ago, I don't think Kuroda likes Turn A that much since he basically ignores it in both of his shows.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by brightman

Works very well for AW and AG too... Since both eras take place after another calendar era that's not AD, and had tech resets basically built into their world views. Plus both shows sort of have Newtypes as a key element (I think X-Rounders are basically Newtypes under a different name, unlike Innovators and Coordinators)

I don’t think so. Even for CE which is supposed to tie in between UC & CC, it’s already facing continuity errors. One of them being: how come there’s no focus on people finding MSs underground in CE with the level of technology they have? The people in CC can find some freaking Zakus & Kapools by digging and excavating with far outdated tech.

Tying up with CE alone is already difficult, let alone with other series which don't have any planning to tie into CC during production.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don’t think so. Even for CE which is supposed to tie in between UC & CC, it’s already facing a continuity errors. One of them being: how come there’s no focus on people finding MSs underground in CE with the level of technology they have? The people in CC can find some freaking Zakus & Kapools by digging and excavating with far outdated tech.

Tying up with CE alone is already difficult, let alone with other series which don't have any planning to tie into CC during production.

The discoveries in Turn A were by chance, mainly due to the settlements being near the handful of "mountain cycles" where the suits were buried. Mobile suits weren't simply buried all over the ground, you know. Without anything to go by I don't think those suits are as easy to locate as you think.

[Patriot's Blade]

so is Turn A Gundam Tomino's attempt at doing a Kamen Rider Decade & Gokaiger style show involving overlapping alternate realities crossover-ing with each other due to something that has yet to be revealed? something that has the power to penetrate a plane of existence trough the fabric of time & space, jumping from one parallel worlds to another, Video game format & Extreme Gundam don't count......

unless its Gundam Force's General Zeong......

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Sunrise/Bandai will just brush it off with “lolmoonlight butterfly” and “lolnanomachines” and then slapped the “official” stamp on top of it, bypassing all logic and critical thinking

The question is on how official the Turn X manual really is. After all, it's not a filmed/animated work.

Anyway, I guess the biggest thing about this unified timeline would be 00's (and CE's to a lesser extent) acknowledgement of extraterrestrial life forms.

With a unified continuity, the entire franchise now contains aliens, which makes AGE's Unknown Enemy's reveal as Vagans to be even more disappointing in hindsight.

Originally Posted by brightman

The discoveries in Turn A were by chance, mainly due to the settlements being near the handful of "mountain cycles" where the suits were buried. Mobile suits weren't simply buried all over the ground, you know. Without anything to go by I don't think those suits are as easy to locate as you think.

On that note, it does seem highly improbable for the discoveries to be UC-like-era mobile weapons when the rest of the franchise is supposed to be between UC and CC.

I think it would've been better if they had just changed the Dark History to put UC-RC-CC at the beginning, and then the rest to be after CC.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by brightman

The discoveries in Turn A were by chance, mainly due to the settlements being near the handful of "mountain cycles" where the suits were buried. Mobile suits weren't simply buried all over the ground, you know. Without anything to go by I don't think those suits are as easy to locate as you think.

Yes, I know it’s by chance, but it’s actually also part of my point. If the CC people with early industrial technology and limited numbers of settlements are able to find a UC MSs with just casual digging and excavation, what stopped CE people from doing the same due to the below factors?:

1. The highly more modern technology they posses. Logical thinking will guide you to the realization that the more modern civilization (in this case, CE) will have more activities underground such as mining, excavation, etc which each of those sites bigger and more expansive than the CC-people could even dream of. You’d think that some people in those mining sites or any other sites that involves digging will stumble upon the “ancient MSs” if they really were underground in the same location as in CC.

2. You said something about settlements. If the few settlements in CC are enough to make them found a MS underground then the chance of CE people doing the same is a lot higher since the number of population and settlements in CE is a lot more than the CC. So much that CE people went into space and build colonies for them to live.

3. Going by the Turn X manual, CE is supposed to be after UC and before CC. Geology, archeology, and palaeontology dictates that the more times goes by, whatever it is that is buried underground will get buried deeper due to the soil volume on top of it keep on piling. You don’t have to take my word for it, just look at the various excavation sites of ancient civilizations around the world. In most cases, what used to be a rooftop of a house a thousand years ago is now buried underground. Apply that logic to CC and how relatively easy they stumble upon UC MSs buried underground which should’ve been, what, ten thousand years worth of soil? So how come the CE-people which is supposed to be (a thousand years?) before CC never once find these UC MSs that buried a lot closer to the ground surface than CC?


Even counting luck, chance, and coincidence, this is still very unlikely.

Originally Posted by monster

With a unified continuity, the entire franchise now contains aliens, which makes AGE's Unknown Enemy's reveal as Vagans to be even more disappointing in hindsight. .

I know, right?

Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X.

so is Turn A Gundam Tomino's attempt at doing a Kamen Rider Decade & Gokaiger style show involving overlapping alternate realities crossover-ing with each other due to something that has yet to be revealed?

Yeah, I think Turn-A (or Dark History) more or less has become the Kamen Rider Decade of the Gundam franchise.

[JMvS]

Or perhaps the mountain cycles are all impact craters, where "landed" various space derelicts such as colonies, asteroids, space ships, lost in space MS, etc...
Perhaps in some eras many of those relics were left in space, but nobody was able to find them later on.
Perhaps one final Moonlight Butterfly, encompassing the whole inner Solar System as far as the Jupiter Sphere, gathered and preserved all those forgotten relics on Earth.

As millennia pass, some resources would replenish a bit, and granted the past civilizations were obliterated, the ruins of their cities and infrastructures would become extremely rich metal deposits.

Just some speculations. But it could work that way.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by JMvS

Or perhaps the mountain cycles are all impact craters, where "landed" various space derelicts such as colonies, asteroids, space ships, lost in space MS, etc...
Perhaps in some eras many of those relics were left in space, but nobody was able to find them later on.
Perhaps one final Moonlight Butterfly, encompassing the whole inner Solar System as far as the Jupiter Sphere, gathered and preserved all those forgotten relics on Earth.

If Mountain Cycles are impact craters then that means those various space derelicts actually crash-landed there, not just landed. And that means whatever crash landed there during the UC era (we did have Zakus & Kapools, right?) won’t be in (pretty much) one piece like how the CC-people found them, as I don’t know any UC technology that can protect a vessel that crash-landed hard enough to cause that big of an impact crater.

Originally Posted by brightman

Mobile suits weren't simply buried all over the ground, you know. Without anything to go by I don't think those suits are as easy to locate as you think.

While I'm at it, might as well dig deeper into this point.

They did find “ancient MSs” in various places, not just the Inglessa mountain cycle where Loran and Sid, the Archeologist-gramps were excavating. Don’t forget that the Luzianna soldiers found their Zakus in their own country’s land far apart from the mountain cycles of Inglessa. Oh and actually some common folks/civilians also doing excavation by themselves and some of them actually found some MSs. Case in point is Will Game who found a Cannon Illefuto in a dried up riverbed, not a mountain cycle. That's the same location where Will (continued by the Militia) also found a spaceship (which later named Willgem). See how "easy" those CC-people find ancient technology buried under thousands of years worth of soil?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by brightman

(I think X-Rounders are basically Newtypes under a different name, unlike Innovators and Coordinators)

Don't think so. One of the aspects about X-Rounders in AGE were that they were regression in humanity's evolution, rather than a progression like Innovators and Newtypes were played up as). Also as a result, they showcased the X-Rounders being worse off when it came to emotional and logical choices and reasoning, and in their personalities. Flit went off the bender with his genocidal plans, Ezelcant made a ridiculous social darwinist plan because his son died, Zeheart lost his grip on sanity, Desil was... well, he was Desil...

So on and so forth. So while they were clearly the Newtype equivalent (humans with psychic powers and better reflexes and such), AGE didn't treat X-Rounders like UC treated Newtypes. Overall it was considered something negative, only useful for battles, unlike how Innovators and Newtypes were portrayed in a (mostly) positive light.

[Gundam888]

Obelisk ze tormentor I gundam 888 agree with you and if you read why cannon and that there separate universes check all my links on page 19 and see why turn a gundam and g reco is not the future for all the timelines or is not canon requires some researching on Wikipedia but if you have questions I'll be happy to walk you throw it

Ps even mahq agree with me on episode they revel there dark history on turn a gundam

[P.P.]

maybe peoples in other era also discovers the ancient ms and use it as basis to build their versions of ms?

p.s. sorry if my english is not good

[Nvis]

I've seen this art before, and I don't like it.

But it's still Gundam, doe.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If Mountain Cycles are impact craters then that means those various space derelicts actually crash-landed there, not just landed. And that means whatever crash landed there during the UC era (we did have Zakus & Kapools, right?) won’t be in (pretty much) one piece like how the CC-people found them, as I don’t know any UC technology that can protect a vessel that crash-landed hard enough to cause that big of an impact crater.

While I'm at it, might as well dig deeper into this point.

They did find “ancient MSs” in various places, not just the Inglessa mountain cycle where Loran and Sid, the Archeologist-gramps were excavating. Don’t forget that the Luzianna soldiers found their Zakus in their own country’s land far apart from the mountain cycles of Inglessa. Oh and actually some common folks/civilians also doing excavation by themselves and some of them actually found some MSs. Case in point is Will Game who found a Cannon Illefuto in a dried up riverbed, not a mountain cycle. That's the same location where Will (continued by the Militia) also found a spaceship (which later named Willgem). See how "easy" those CC-people find ancient technology buried under thousands of years worth of soil?

Let me take a step back with this whole discussion then. The snippet of CE we saw was only one element of it, in a very short period of history. How do we know they WONT find any buried MSs in that timeline at any point? We don't. In fact, in order for Moonlight Butterfly to be used as a possible reset of that timeline, someone had to have discovered one of those buried suits (Turn A)

Which goes back to what I was saying earlier. I think trying to work out minute details like that, in a history going across tens of millennia, is fruitless. There are so many possibilities that you can come up with to make sense of things. And I still don't see any arguments that would specifically kill the theory on its tracks.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Don't think so. One of the aspects about X-Rounders in AGE were that they were regression in humanity's evolution, rather than a progression like Innovators and Newtypes were played up as). Also as a result, they showcased the X-Rounders being worse off when it came to emotional and logical choices and reasoning, and in their personalities. Flit went off the bender with his genocidal plans, Ezelcant made a ridiculous social darwinist plan because his son died, Zeheart lost his grip on sanity, Desil was... well, he was Desil...

So on and so forth. So while they were clearly the Newtype equivalent (humans with psychic powers and better reflexes and such), AGE didn't treat X-Rounders like UC treated Newtypes. Overall it was considered something negative, only useful for battles, unlike how Innovators and Newtypes were portrayed in a (mostly) positive light.

I don't agree at all. There are two definitions of Newtypes: the physical ones who actually have the Esper abilities we think we know Newtypes to have, and the Zeonic idealistic Newtypes which are those who have evolved past the basic instincts of humanity. Even in UC, it was shown that the latter definition of Newtypes may not be anything but an ideal, and a major theme is that they might not even exist, and the espers that we saw are mere mutations that are exploited for war (this is basically what the entirety of Gundam X is about)

On that note I think X-Rounders fit that theme quite well. Newtypes in UC definitely aren't all positive, we see plenty of evil Newtypes who abuse their powers and use them in misguided ways.

[Gundam888]

No your wrong read links bright man beacuse I'm right you still believe in that never neverland brightman because I already disprove it live with it ok !!!

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Gundam888

No your wrong read links bright man beacuse I'm right you still believe in that never neverland brightman because I already disprove it live with it ok !!!

Ok........ With that I guess we return to our regularly scheduled announcements......

http://randal.blog91.fc2.com/blog-entry-2391.html

The new Animedia has some new info that basically connects the dots for us.

So basically the world is reliant on photon batteries as stated earlier, and apparently there is an energy crisis. The space elevator is how they transport the photon batteries from space to earth. So tho space pirates are dissatisfied about things and decided to hijack a shipment of photon batteries in the first ep.

Raraiya shows up on Earth with the G-self a week before the attack.

And the first Bellri-Aida battle is Bellri beating up the G-Self with a maintenance MS armed with a welding tool I guess some things never change.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by brightman

And the first Bellri-Aida battle is Bellri beating up the G-Self with a maintenance MS armed with a welding tool I guess some things never change.

Sounds a lot like how Shiro disabling Aina's custom Zaku II with just a Ball .

Originally Posted by brightman

Let me take a step back with this whole discussion then. The snippet of CE we saw was only one element of it, in a very short period of history. How do we know they WONT find any buried MSs in that timeline at any point? We don't. In fact, in order for Moonlight Butterfly to be used as a possible reset of that timeline, someone had to have discovered one of those buried suits (Turn A)

Which goes back to what I was saying earlier. I think trying to work out minute details like that, in a history going across tens of millennia, is fruitless. There are so many possibilities that you can come up with to make sense of things. And I still don't see any arguments that would specifically kill the theory on its tracks.

Bright, I can easily turn that argument around by saying: How come the people in CE still haven’t found any of those buried MSs even though they already passed their modern-stage of civilization and starting to enter into futuristic-stage (giant robots, beam weaponry, space exploration, space colonies, etc). Heck, they seem to have done digging, exploring, and sucking the Earth dry and now looking up to space for new resources. So how come not a single soul found an ancient MS underground before we reach the point where Gundam SEED story started? If CC-people with their early industrial-era tech can already find so many MSs in various places buried deep underground, what the hell did the CE-people have been doing all this time? Did they never dig the ground at all? No digging for water? Sewer system? Oil drilling? Coal Mining? Mining for precious stones? Archeological & paleontological excavations? No earthquake or landslide? All those activities will easily reveal what’s underground a lot easier and faster than how the CC-people found their ancient MSs.

People have been finding dinosaur fossils for hundreds of years. The first dinosaur to be scientifically described was Megalosaurus in 1824 IIRC and the rest is history. These fossils has been buried for more than 66 Million years (imagine how much the soil have piled on top of them), and now you’re telling me that a civilization as advanced as CE haven’t found a single ancient MS which spread in various places in the land and buried for “only” ten thousand years or less? So yeah, I don’t think I even need to “kill the theory in its tracks” because to me it’s already “dead on arrival” for the series other than UC, RC & CC (logically speaking). At least until Tomino comes up with something better in G-Reco or some databooks or other media in the future.