[Manga] Naruto Final Chapter

[kampfer91]

Kakashi is the reason why no one want to step in to interfere Pain .

What's the point trying to fight someone who just kill one of the best shinobi in the village ?

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

you just dont remember the manga very well. and apparently dont read all i write before responding either. i've mentioned several times about how naruto went straight to 4 tails vs orochimaru and it was without anyone interfering. plus the seal weakened over time allowing for more tails. if hinata and sasuke's "deaths" were switched in time, the amount of tails would stay consistent since it depended on the seal's state, not who was involved

plus you and other nay-sayers refuse to acknowledge pain's 'extras' like ... rinnegan eyes that didnt belong to him...

that's fine. my main point about the fight and who won is about what actually happened in the manga. hinata's effort amounted to nothing more than a pick-me-up which for me doesn't disqualify naruto from winning the fight. even though i think hinata could be replaced with quite a few people, it's obviously just speculation since literally anything could have happened if not what actually did happen

i do think kakashi dying in front of him would have yielded the same result though

That never happened I don't know what your reading in the fight against Orochimaru it was a gradual increase in the number of tails he went from one to four against Pain he went straight to four and beyond. You seem to forget that Pain was in control of his actions and rinnegan can be counted as a tool unlike Kyuubi at that point which is an entirely seperate conciousness on its own. Its only in recent chapters where Kyuubi can be counted as tool because Naruto is using it out his own free will and is actually concious of all the things he is doing. The seal has weakened over time Naruto has had lot of moments in that same time period which shouldve produced the same reaction but still none of them have made him go to the point of almost breaking the seal. This is sole incident in the entire manga where Naruto has gone straight to fours tails and the only person who was capable of doing that was Hinata. The argument isn't whether Hinata can be replaced with any charcter its her her whole impact on the fight which is major I don't think she was just a cheerleader.

Originally Posted by kampfer91

Kakashi is the reason why no one want to step in to interfere Pain .
What's the point trying to fight someone who just kill one of the best shinobi in the village ?

He also just destroyed the entire village that's enough to make anyone think twice

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by kampfer91

Kakashi is the reason why no one want to step in to interfere Pain .

What's the point trying to fight someone who just kill one of the best shinobi in the village ?

tsunade was stronger than kakashi at that point in the story. she was just about to fight pain herself before naruto got there

[shadow1296]

I always felt that hinata's involvement in the pain fight was more about her then naruto, while is true that one of the points to it was to make naruto lose control and made him go to 6 tails, the other point was to show how far hinata was willing to go for naruto, while the others were probably to to scared to fight pain hinata jumps in to fight pain more than likely knowing she will probably die but does it anyway for naruto, heck even when she is beaten she still manages to crawl to naruto to try to pull out the chakra rod in his hands, now that being said it might have been true that any character might have made rampage at that point, but i doubt the scene would have been that strong emotionally for the read/anime watcher if it was anyone else beside hinata

[Da-nyan]

Personally i don't like the ending. The ending is a little bit rushed and i hate how Kishimoto just paired them just because they are top OTP. it's just like fan service so anyone happy their otp is canon =="

The pairing that make sense is shikamaru x temari (i can see their relationship developed in the series) and maybe naruto x hinata (again i see their relationship developed) //and i not even naruhina fan i more into narusaku //but i still prefer narusasu XDD //slapped

I just can't see sasuke and sakura (i mean before he doesn't care about her and after that he suddenly in love with her D: //see chp 699) and sai x ino (i don't see their relationship developed in the series)

//sorry for my bad grammar

[db84x]

@ Da-yan
We can't expect romance from WSJ manga since it don't tune will WSJ reader. Don't forget that most of its reader is betwen 12th - 15th years old

[Alena_92]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

I always felt that hinata's involvement in the pain fight was more about her then naruto, while is true that one of the points to it was to make naruto lose control and made him go to 6 tails, the other point was to show how far hinata was willing to go for naruto, while the others were probably to to scared to fight pain hinata jumps in to fight pain more than likely knowing she will probably die but does it anyway for naruto, heck even when she is beaten she still manages to crawl to naruto to try to pull out the chakra rod in his hands, now that being said it might have been true that any character might have made rampage at that point, but i doubt the scene would have been that strong emotionally for the read/anime watcher if it was anyone else beside hinata

totally agree.. 100 %

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

while the others were probably to to scared to fight pain hinata jumps in to fight pain

this sentence sounds like a question.
answer: ROCK LEE. (one of two ppl ALIVE at that time, that would have taken Hinatas place. guy being the other.)

in fact, kishi did well to have team guy conveniently away.
rock + guy + neji = dead ass pain. all 6 of them

ps. i generally agree with that other stuff lol

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

in fact, kishi did well to have team guy conveniently away.
rock + guy + neji = dead ass pain. all 6 of them

haha yea that was a little too convenient. 6 or 7 gates would have easily been enough speed to take the pains out

it's also a chakra issue. kakashi only 'died' from using too much chakra, but vs obito he had more chakra than a bijou it seemed

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

haha yea that was a little too convenient. 6 or 7 gates would have easily been enough speed to take the pains out

it's also a chakra issue. kakashi only 'died' from using too much chakra, but vs obito he had more chakra than a bijou it seemed

When fighting Obito, Kakashi got some chakra from Naruto/Kurama.
Not only that, he's also limiting his fight only to Obito, easier to save chakra.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Tactics

When fighting Obito, Kakashi got some chakra from Naruto/Kurama.
Not only that, he's also limiting his fight only to Obito, easier to save chakra.

sure, he got extra chakra eventually, but he used kamui waaaay more than in the pain fight before that

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

sure, he got extra chakra eventually, but he used kamui waaaay more than in the pain fight before that

Kamui usage limit increase as Kakashi trained it.
If he didn't train his Kamui, he won't ask how far Itachi's sight deteriorated by MS.

Not only that, Kakashi also stated Kurama chakra is also boost Kamui efficiency.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Kamui usage limit increase as Kakashi trained it.
If he didn't train his Kamui, he won't ask how far Itachi's sight deteriorated by MS.

Not only that, Kakashi also stated Kurama chakra is also boost Kamui efficiency.

if you think the outrageous amount of chakra usage in the final battles is due to training then i'm not sure what else to say. it was so obviously an issue of plot convenience that there's nothing more to add

"hey kakashi, could you pump out maybe 4 or 5 more kamuis in a fight next time?"
"sure just let me train for a few days"

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

if you think the outrageous amount of chakra usage in the final battles is due to training then i'm not sure what else to say. it was so obviously an issue of plot convenience that there's nothing more to add

"hey kakashi, could you pump out maybe 4 or 5 more kamuis in a fight next time?"
"sure just let me train for a few days"

The training is about effectiveness and efficiency of Kamui.

How should I describe it-- It's like;
At Skill Lv. 1, I can threw one fireball by 50 MP.
At Skill Lv. 2, I can threw two fireball(s) by 50 MP.

Similar to Sasuke with his Chidori.
At first, he need handseals to control his chakra output.
After time skip, he's skilled enough to do Chidori without need of handseals.

I'm not sure if it's really about few days. From Deidara to War arc is long enough and not just a few days.
When using it against Deidara, both his accuracy and chakra cost is bad; while fighting Pain, his accuracy is far better but the chakra cost is still bad.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Tactics

The training is about effectiveness and efficiency of Kamui.

How should I describe it-- It's like;
At Skill Lv. 1, I can threw one fireball by 50 MP.
At Skill Lv. 2, I can threw two fireball(s) by 50 MP.

Similar to Sasuke with his Chidori.
At first, he need handseals to control his chakra output.
After time skip, he's skilled enough to do Chidori without need of handseals.

I'm not sure if it's really about few days. From Deidara to War arc is long enough and not just a few days.

what you're not taking into account is the amount of time that passes

as far as the handseals go, kishi is omitting them since it would be a waste of panel time. we are supposed to understand what's implied to be going on after all these years

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

what you're not taking into account is the amount of time that passes

as far as the handseals go, kishi is omitting them since it would be a waste of panel time. we are supposed to understand what's implied to be going on after all these years

I'm not quite understand about how you count the amount of time.

Because I think, from Deidara, to Pain, to World War is not just a few days;
Few months maybe, but I can't see it as a few days; is there any official timeline I misses that implies Kakashi's training time is just a few days?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Tactics

I'm not quite understand about how you count the amount of time.

Because I think, from Deidara, to Pain, to World War is not just a few days;
Few months maybe, but I can't see it as a few days; is there any official timeline I misses that implies Kakashi's training time is just a few days?

we don't need to go back to deidara. we saw kakashi fight vs pain and what he was capable of at that time. a couple days later was the kage summit and about 2 months after that was the shinobi war. you can believe that's enough time for kakashi to so vastly improve if you want. obviously that's what kishi wants us to believe. for me, it doesn't make sense for his chakra levels to be that huge and his skills to be that much better. keep in mind he didn't just start the day fighting obito. he was coming right off a fight against the edo-7 mist swordsmen...

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

we don't need to go back to deidara. we saw kakashi fight vs pain and what he was capable of at that time. a couple days later was the kage summit and about 2 months after that was the shinobi war. you can believe that's enough time kakashi to so vastlyimprove if you want. obviously that's what kishi wants us to believe. for me, it doesn't make sense for his chakra levels to be that huge. keep in mind he didn't just start the day fighting obito. he was coming right off a fight against the edo-7 mist swordsmen...

The chakra level didn't need to change, skill level change is much more necessary.
No matter how huge the chakra level, if his aiming with Kamui is bad, it won't affect anything in battlefield.
Kakashi did show a good improvement in terms of accuracy (teleporting nail) and casting time (fast enough even Obito admit his skill),

I think Kakashi mastering Kamui is already good reason;
Since both increase accuracy and reduce casting time could lead to lower chakra cost.

There is a war, and you expect there's no healer in your team?
Did you really think the team will consists only fighters and sealing team?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Tactics

The chakra level didn't need to change, skill level change is much more necessary.
No matter how huge the chakra level, if his aiming with Kamui is bad, it won't affect anything in battlefield.
Kakashi did show a good improvement in terms of accuracy (teleporting nail) and casting time (fast enough even Obito admit his skill),

I think Kakashi mastering Kamui is already good reason;
Since both increase accuracy and reduce casting time could lead to lower chakra cost.

There is a war, and you expect there's no healer in your team?
Did you really think the team will consists only fighters and sealing team?

at this point, it's pretty clear you can't support your side. you're just trying to cram a bunch of random tangents in there.

on point, if you add up what literally killed kakashi vs pain, it wasn't even close to what he was capable of only 2 months later

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

at this point, it's pretty clear you can't support your side. you're just trying to cram a bunch of random tangents in there.

on point, if you add up what literally killed kakashi vs pain, it wasn't even close to what he was capable of only 2 months later

Problem is, I don't see anything changed about his chakra level on the databook.

If Kakashi's chakra level is really increase just like what you said, where's the proof also?
"He comes right off the fights ...", didn't justify he didn't get any chakra 'refill' before going there.

"Because he use it more than what I saw before" also didn't justify anything, especially when there's Naruto/Kurama lend their chakra;
How many chakra did he got from them? How many times Kamui could be executed with their chakra? Did you count that also, and after you count it, it's not even sufficient? Please explain it.

I still don't get what's problem with "It's only two months!", and why;
"He can use it more than what we saw before!" automatically means his chakra level is increase dramatically.
Two months is enough time to train, especially if he had correct method (I don't think it's something hard for someone who could come with Kagebunshin as a training method); more usage of Kamui, other than chakra support, could also indicate he's getting better at using Kamui.

Rather than just write, "If you add up ...", would you mind to explain it in more detailed explanation?