Mother of Learning [Web Novel]

[laclongquan]

I dont give a flying monkey who the author is. My whole post is aiming at the MC. EDIT the old post for clarity so that no one can pretend to misunderstand.

For your excuse and/or whitewash, do you remember when you are in high school? Obnoxious mudafuga? Horny obnoxious mudafuga? Halfway decent human being if he masturbate a lot before coming to school?

The JP novel scenes has a term for that state "being sage". Because hormones drive you out of that sage stage. You know you are in a highschool class because you can smell the horniness.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

I dont give a flying monkey who the author is. My whole post is aiming at the MC. EDIT the old post for clarity so that no one can pretend to misunderstand.

For your excuse and/or whitewash, do you remember when you are in high school? Obnoxious mudafuga? Horny obnoxious mudafuga? Halfway decent human being if he masturbate a lot before coming to school?

The JP novel scenes has a term for that state "being sage". Because hormones drive you out of that sage stage. You know you are in a highschool class because you can smell the horniness.

That's such a ridiculous stereotype. Sure there are teenagers like that, but when I was in school I barely cared and I know I wasn't the only one.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

I dont give a flying monkey who the author is. My whole post is aiming at the MC. EDIT the old post for clarity so that no one can pretend to misunderstand.

For your excuse and/or whitewash, do you remember when you are in high school? Obnoxious mudafuga? Horny obnoxious mudafuga? Halfway decent human being if he masturbate a lot before coming to school?

The JP novel scenes has a term for that state "being sage". Because hormones drive you out of that sage stage. You know you are in a highschool class because you can smell the horniness.

and you are forgetting the MC is a empathy who before he got his training hate being around ppl. He was not a normal highschool student , he was irritated just being around somebody.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

and you are forgetting the MC is a empathy who before he got his training hate being around ppl. He was not a normal highschool student , he was irritated just being around somebody.

I remember my highskool days. Those pple are either goths or some nerds. But hey, at that age, u'd be a freak if you don't view da gals in ur class as targets for fapping. Granted our zorian has bad experience with an older girl, granted he's now 20-30yr in mental age, HIS PHYSICAL BODY is still a teens. Don't tell me dat he doesn't have nocturnal emissions for 30yrs in the time loop. Da guy don't even have wet dreams dat we know off. Is he even 15?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by pervypig

I remember my highskool days. Those pple are either goths or some nerds. But hey, at that age, u'd be a freak if you don't view da gals in ur class as targets for fapping. Granted our zorian has bad experience with an older girl, granted he's now 20-30yr in mental age, HIS PHYSICAL BODY is still a teens. Don't tell me dat he doesn't have nocturnal emissions for 30yrs in the time loop. Da guy don't even have wet dreams dat we know off. Is he even 15?

in his case, he literally can't stand being around people because their emotional were causing him psychic pain.

and this is regarding the difference between western authors and Japaneses Ln writers. (Author is form Serbia)

In pretty much all the western fiction i have read (scifi/fantasy/modern/classical) and i have read plenty. The authors (male and female) don't spend that much time telling you how horny their protag is or the three size of the every they encounter, when it is NOT a important element to their storyline. Their MC isn't a eunuch and is well aware of the opposite sex but it is not something western authors concentrate on.

In zorian's case, he probably is horny but guess what, there is no need to describe it. He has more important matters to focus his attention on, like survival.
Remeber the old saying of "nothing focus a mind like a impending hanging." Whn you are facing what zorian is facing, sex is not on the top of the agenda and author would be idiot to focus on something that adds nothing to the story.

[Darius Drake]

As other's have said, not every teenager is hormone-blinded. However, if you want to have evidence that Zorian has been hormone-blinded, the main reason he's kept his friendship with Taiven before the story started, despite the near constant "friendly" abuse, is because she's hot.

What, Zorian hasn't taken advantage of the timeloop and slept with the pretty girls around him? Well, he hasn't had much of a reason to. He's the type that wants long term relationships, not one-night-stands, and his family bullying has conditioned him to HATE the type who prefer one-night-stands. Like his brothers. Then take into consideration that he's been fighting to keep the majority of his morals during the timeloop, (remembering who's given him help so that he could pay them back outside the timeloop is just one example) and him not sleeping with anyone becomes something that he's going to refuse to do purely to help support keeping his morals in the long term.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

As other's have said, not every teenager is hormone-blinded. However, if you want to have evidence that Zorian has been hormone-blinded, the main reason he's kept his friendship with Taiven before the story started, despite the near constant "friendly" abuse, is because she's hot.

What, Zorian hasn't taken advantage of the timeloop and slept with the pretty girls around him? Well, he hasn't had much of a reason to. He's the type that wants long term relationships, not one-night-stands, and his family bullying has conditioned him to HATE the type who prefer one-night-stands. Like his brothers. Then take into consideration that he's been fighting to keep the majority of his morals during the timeloop, (remembering who's given him help so that he could pay them back outside the timeloop is just one example) and him not sleeping with anyone becomes something that he's going to refuse to do purely to help support keeping his morals in the long term.

i don't think Zorian is that morally upstanding. I am on the side that Zorian is concentrating on survival to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. In Part 1, he was trying figure out the timeloop, in part2 he was hunted by Red Robe (think he was) and in part3 trying to get out of the timeloop with his memories intact. It doesn't leave him much time to do anything else.

[Darius Drake]

^ Who said that preferring long-term relationships is being morally upstanding? It isn't morals that make me believe that Zorian would prefer long-term relationships, it's that his obnoxious elder brothers seem to be playboys, and he doesn't want to be like them.

That said, Zorian IS one of the most morally outstanding people I can imagine in his situation. He's not the most ethically outstanding people, particularly before the timeloop, but morally? He's shown time and time again that he'd prefer standing my his morals than risk himself having no morals when/if he ends up leaving the timeloop. Even in this latest chapter, Xvim's giving him a list of people whom mind-raping would help him, and Zorian's reply is "I'd rather not". There's no physical risk to Zorian, there's no likely real consequence if he does so, and yet he prefers not to. THAT's what a morally outstanding person does.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

In pretty much all the western fiction i have read (scifi/fantasy/modern/classical) and i have read plenty. The authors (male and female) don't spend that much time telling you how horny their protag is or the three size of the every they encounter, when it is NOT a important element to their storyline. Their MC isn't a eunuch and is well aware of the opposite sex but it is not something western authors concentrate on.

In zorian's case, he probably is horny but guess what, there is no need to describe it. He has more important matters to focus his attention on, like survival.
Remeber the old saying of "nothing focus a mind like a impending hanging." Whn you are facing what zorian is facing, sex is not on the top of the agenda and author would be idiot to focus on something that adds nothing to the story.

Erm, yeah, I guess that's what makes western works a better read in general because of their lack of distracting low-culture material. But I'd say that impending doom and fear tend to stimulate your survival instinct to reproduce more rather than impede it. We might have been treated to scenes of Zorian, fresh from running for his life from a giant spider, laying into a particularly accommodating female friend/classmate only to get his arse kicked for being a perv... naw, scratch dat, tsunderes turns me off worse than guro.

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

That said, Zorian IS one of the most morally outstanding people I can imagine in his situation. He's not the most ethically outstanding people, particularly before the timeloop, but morally? He's shown time and time again that he'd prefer standing my his morals than risk himself having no morals when/if he ends up leaving the timeloop. Even in this latest chapter, Xvim's giving him a list of people whom mind-raping would help him, and Zorian's reply is "I'd rather not". There's no physical risk to Zorian, there's no likely real consequence if he does so, and yet he prefers not to. THAT's what a morally outstanding person does.

I think Zorian's establishment of character moment was when he explained to his lil sister that "what you are is what you do" - just because he can do it without any immediate or tangible consequences does not mean he should do it because the effects on his character would be much worse.

[laclongquan]

It's basic biology. In high school you may not know that yourself is under influence of hormones but that doesnt erase the fact that you do act under that influence. The knowing is taking place over several decades until you realize which time you act like that and which time you are not.

Let me give it a clue: if you go past a female and you check tits/asses/thigh/face (depended on your preference) 80% of the time frame you looking at her, you are under influence. If you are not, that ratio of time fall way down, mostly so that you can notice behavioral clues, and should take 50% no more.

He pay almost no attention at all. Which is frankly unnerving.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

It's basic biology. In high school you may not know that yourself is under influence of hormones but that doesnt erase the fact that you do act under that influence. The knowing is taking place over several decades until you realize which time you act like that and which time you are not.

Let me give it a clue: if you go past a female and you check tits/asses/thigh/face (depended on your preference) 80% of the time frame you looking at her, you are under influence. If you are not, that ratio of time fall way down, mostly so that you can notice behavioral clues, and should take 50% no more.

He pay almost no attention at all. Which is frankly unnerving.

It's not important or necessary to depict every stray thought Zorian ever has. If it really matters that much to you, just think he has occasional moments off-screen or something.

[Namorax]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

It's basic biology. In high school you may not know that yourself is under influence of hormones but that doesnt erase the fact that you do act under that influence. The knowing is taking place over several decades until you realize which time you act like that and which time you are not.

Let me give it a clue: if you go past a female and you check tits/asses/thigh/face (depended on your preference) 80% of the time frame you looking at her, you are under influence. If you are not, that ratio of time fall way down, mostly so that you can notice behavioral clues, and should take 50% no more.

He pay almost no attention at all. Which is frankly unnerving.

I take it your issue is that Zorian is able to ignore something like (post-)puberty? Where chemicals in your head try to compel you to fulfill your biological imperative?
His empathy was described having a rather big impact on his social life. Even if he is/was a normal teenager, getting irritaed/nauseous from being around other people isn't very helpful.

In a lot of western fiction that I read, the protagonist is able to look at people of the other gender and just tells us how they look to him/her, and if they like the other person or not. There's normally nothing about "I wanna bang that", unless you're reading 'romance' or 'erotica'. It is just not relevant to the plot. The reason why I read this story is the plot, about Zorian dealing with suddenly being thrown in a timeloop.
A japanese LN author would've created a situation where the protagonist either sees the heroine naked and/or gets into physical contact with her boobies/panties because he's a ditz. And because boobs are apparently a pretty good thing to replace the plot of a japanese Light Novel with...
I find that even more unnerving.

Just because the author doesn't tell us about it, it doesn't mean that Zorian never had any interest in women. There is a ton of stuff that gets mentioned only once, even though this is a novel about timeloops.

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

It's basic biology. In high school you may not know that yourself is under influence of hormones but that doesnt erase the fact that you do act under that influence. The knowing is taking place over several decades until you realize which time you act like that and which time you are not.

Let me give it a clue: if you go past a female and you check tits/asses/thigh/face (depended on your preference) 80% of the time frame you looking at her, you are under influence. If you are not, that ratio of time fall way down, mostly so that you can notice behavioral clues, and should take 50% no more.

He pay almost no attention at all. Which is frankly unnerving.

I'm having trouble putting your issue in words that can't be considered insulting. Sorry about that. Back to the "argument": In the first "month" of the story, we see Zorian perversely stare at Kiana. We also got to view Zorian's thoughts about Taiven "in that tight set of combat clothes she always wears while training".

Is it brought up again after that? No, because IT'S NOT VERY IMPORTANT TO THE STORY. And, honestly, outside of school, Zorian doesn't really interact with many female humans. Particularly not ones around Zorian's age. As such, most of the girls he'd pay attention to in that way, for more than a brief & unimportant second, are his classmates. Which means that they fit in the "not important enough to be put into the story" category.

[Mechatrill]

To sum all this up:

Mother of Learning is a western action/adventure novel, and as such, follow western action/adventure genre standards.

That happens to also mean not following certain common Japanese web novel conventions such as otaku pandering fanservice every other chapter.

It has little to nothing to do with the sexuality or lack thereof of the main character. Such is simply the difference in genre.

Deal with it.

[Gundamx]

It also start with MC having his heart broken by Tavien.

[laclongquan]

Your excuses, if that what they are, wont work.

Because ultimately what's written, what's being put to e-words , are what matters.

No matter what you say, the analysis is that his behaviour is a little bit too cold, too inhuman. ANd the direct cause is the lack of hormone-driven irrationality that is so much a part of a teenage male's mentality and behaviour.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

Your excuses, if that what they are, wont work.

Because ultimately what's written, what's being put to e-words , are what matters.

No matter what you say, the analysis is that his behaviour is a little bit too cold, too inhuman. ANd the direct cause is the lack of hormone-driven irrationality that is so much a part of a teenage male's mentality and behaviour.

And that fact he was natural mind mage.
(Which cause him to faint every time he was near a lot of people when he was still a kid)

[pervypig]

^ I can buy the fact that Zorian ain't horny cos it's a western work (cos all those fapping and nocturnal emissions happen outside the story as background), but trying to explain he aren't interested in gals (or boys) because he's an empath would be too much of a stretch. What, we see Zorian paired up with people all the time, and even started a martial arts training class (!) with 4-5 students. I mean, you don't need all that many people to have a group date, rite?

[ices]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

Your excuses, if that what they are, wont work.

Because ultimately what's written, what's being put to e-words , are what matters.

No matter what you say, the analysis is that his behaviour is a little bit too cold, too inhuman. ANd the direct cause is the lack of hormone-driven irrationality that is so much a part of a teenage male's mentality and behaviour.

I don't get what you're trying to achieve here. But I really Irritated by your comment that all male's teenager must behaves as you explained.

Let me start with writing what you've written.

Originally Posted by laclongquan

... For your excuse and/or whitewash, do you remember when you are in high school? Obnoxious mudafuga? Horny obnoxious mudafuga? Halfway decent human being if he masturbate a lot before coming to school?

This was the ones that really made me irritated. It's as if you're expecting all highschool boys must behaves as you described. Oh, please, there's a ton of cultures in this world. Not everyone the same. Don't lump all teenager into one category.

Let me tell you, when I'm a teenager, I'm not one of those kind you described. And some of my classmate not fall to your category. There is this one friend that religious. There is also those friend that must work because they're too poor. They're not the kind of teenager like you described. I'm really irritated because you saying something like that is like insulting those people.

Originally Posted by laclongquan

he JP novel scenes has a term for that state "being sage". Because hormones drive you out of that sage stage. You know you are in a highschool class because you can smell the horniness.

This again. Nowadays, I'm working mostly as a highschool instructor. And I know that what you described isn't true. If you're growing in environment like that, don't just assume the same thing also happen everywhere. Even in JP alone, not everything is the same as described in those novel/LN/manga.

Originally Posted by laclongquan

No matter what you say, the analysis is that his behaviour is a little bit too cold, too inhuman. ANd the direct cause is the lack of hormone-driven irrationality that is so much a part of a teenage male's mentality and behaviour.

I don't believe a tiny bit about what you described as teenager mentality and behaviour. There's many kind of teenager. If that's made you think Zorian too cold and inhuman, it's up to you. But what I know; Zorian is perfectly fine. Teenager life's isn't all about following their hormones. There's youngin' that their time moslty absorbed in their hobby. There's ones who work hard to make achievement like in sport/studies. There's people who must labour since young age because they're too poor. Not everything is hormone-driven. And that's perfectly normal.

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by laclongquan

Your excuses, if that what they are, wont work.

Because ultimately what's written, what's being put to e-words , are what matters.

No matter what you say, the analysis is that his behaviour is a little bit too cold, too inhuman. ANd the direct cause is the lack of hormone-driven irrationality that is so much a part of a teenage male's mentality and behaviour.

Seriously. Your ENTIRE argument is that "Zorian is a teenager who hasn't f***ed anyone, so he's asexual". You have ignored arguments about everything about him, from his personality and examples of him having crushes, to the writing style being one where there's less/no significant emphasis on perving and fanservice. Please suggest a way in which you'll actually listen to an opinion other than your own without disregarding it out of hand. Because that's the entirety of what your side of the argument has been so far.

As for the argument against yours, several points have been made. Here's my interpretation of them.

1. Not every teenager is a brain-dead horny pervert with only sex on the mind. Many of them are, but just as many aren't.
2. Zorian's family life has made him hate people like Damien & Fortov, and taking advantage of his situation in a sexual manner would be acting like Damien & Fortov.
3. Zorian's an Empath/Psychic. As such, he's slightly more predisposed to wanting happy relationships than one-night-stands. One thing he can't create in the timeloop is a happy relationship.
4. Zorian's already had his heart broken, and fairly recently. Once bitten, twice shy.


Please give an argument against these. No, a blanket "but he's a Male Teenager! They're horny idiots!" that you've been repeating. That's not an argument, it's you metaphorically clapping your hands over your ears and singing "la la la, not listening".