Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Skye629

And it seems the Helmwige got another melee weapon, based on the new HG pictures. The GS is still the seller here of course

That's not another weapon technically, look closely and you can see it's the bottom half of his primary blade.


It seems his huge sword can come apart into two pieces. I can't wait to see Isurugi get to play with that.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

That's not another weapon technically, look closely and you can see it's the bottom half of his primary blade.


It seems his huge sword can come apart into two pieces. I can't wait to see Isurugi get to play with that.

Oh nice catch! If anything my biggest gripe with the design is the apparent lack of ranged weaponry, though thats easily fixed by throwing in a rifle in the show/any kits (maybe even just the Grimgerde's old one, makes sense lorewise and the model kit parts in both scales already exist)

[StratoSpear]

Originally Posted by Skye629

Interesting.....especially the back shot, what are those in its binders? the lower part definitely looks like a blade, but what are those pointed parts we see in the main/upper part of the binders? Some sort of vent? Or blades? And the backskirt is definitely something different

To me, it looks like a vent.

It also looks to me that the "wings" are hiding a set of fins like F91's heat radiation fins. I don't know about everyone else but I'm guessing Bael might have a signature system similar to Trans-Am or Destiny's WoL.

That is assuming those small protrusions underneath the binders are actually fins

Originally Posted by Skye629

Edit: Those pointy blade things, are they attached to the back of the sideskirts? Or off to the side of the backskirt (looks more like this the more I look)??? TBH if those are blades, they really look like what Vidar uses. Of course though thats only speculation until we see better shots/handles or something to really go on

The appear to be attached to the sides of the back skirt. Makes sense if the pilot does not wish to have the arm motions hindered.

And considering they're a pair of swords.... One could guess the potential pilot.

[Skye629]

So from the latest ep:

1. We got the backstory on Kimaris retrieval/the cover up story on Gaelio's death
2. Our first in show glimpse of Bael, which is indeed in Gjallerhorn's possession
3. Riden-Go.......hahaha.......I like it overall better than the Ryuseigo III
4. Julietta getting a new machine!!! From the dialogue a new Gjallerhorn experimental/prototype unit!!! Probably either the one we saw in the last hobby show alongside the Bael/Helmwige or one of the two mystery machines which silhouettes were teased a few weeks back
5. Hyakuren back next episode!!! Well at least we get to see it

[Faux Mecha]

so i guess the Plumas are just drones instead of capable of doing their own actions, being just extensions of the Hashmal like limbs to the brain, as evidenced that the Plumas shutting down when the Hashmal got destroyed, despite they are probably still in good combat condition without the Hashmal.

[FerrusManus]

Originally Posted by Global Sword 2

so i guess the Plumas are just drones instead of capable of doing their own actions, being just extensions of the Hashmal like limbs to the brain, as evidenced that the Plumas shutting down when the Hashmal got destroyed, despite they are probably still in good combat condition without the Hashmal.

Their energy supply was cut off when Mika finished the Hashmal. The Plumas get their energy via microwave transmission from the MA (remember that the Pluma on board the Saisei reacted without the control signal when they fed energy into its system).

[Overmars]

Since its debut, the most important moment for the Helmwige Reincar is to 'lend' the huge sword to Barbatos to defeat the Hashmal. Other than that, it did nothing much. Unless Mobile Armors appear again in future episodes, I don't think the huge sword would be useful against mobile suits. And since Mika damaged the sword in the battle, they should make another huge sword design as part of Tactical Arms (Flight Pack + Gattling Gun) instead of the same huge sword for a single purpose.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Overmars

Since its debut, the most important moment for the Helmwige Reincar is to 'lend' the huge sword to Barbatos to defeat the Hashmal. Other than that, it did nothing much. Unless Mobile Armors appear again in future episodes, I don't think the huge sword would be useful against mobile suits. And since Mika damaged the sword in the battle, they should make another huge sword design as part of Tactical Arms (Flight Pack + Gattling Gun) instead of the same huge sword for a single purpose.

That sword can double as a shield (plus an extra weapon in the hilt) and one shot any standard MS, its far from useless or meant solely for large targets

Its real potential will be in space, where gravity doesn't matter, not to mention the Helmwige is loaded with thrusters, moreso than even the Grimgerde

I would wait and give it a chance for future episodes

[Skye629]

Hekija, definitely a Teiwaz model.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I like Hekija's color-scheme. The way they arranged the colors makes it look like gradation.

[SonicSP]

I still rather have a a HG Spinner Rodi kit. Or for that matter ANY Rodi that isn't the ugly original Man Rodi.

[The 48th Ronin]

Still amazed that Nanolaminate Armor can block/deflect beam shots.

Speaking of NLA, is it just the paint, or the armor covered with the special paint?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by The 48th Ronin

Still amazed that Nanolaminate Armor can block/deflect beam shots.

Speaking of NLA, is it just the paint, or the armor covered with the special paint?

SonicSP might be able to answer it more accurately, but IIRC it’s the combination of NL paint/coat with the Ahab reactor. The reactor somehow strengthens the NL paint/coat when it’s activated, not unlike PSA.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by The 48th Ronin

Still amazed that Nanolaminate Armor can block/deflect beam shots.

Speaking of NLA, is it just the paint, or the armor covered with the special paint?

Based on how the term has been used in some of the supplementary materials, Nanolaminate Armor refers specifically to the paint. You paint it on your mobile suit's surface and it block attacks. Repairing damaged or worn out sections is easy, just repaint it with more of the same stuff. It is however typically painted on the surface of the solid armor plating, which we know very little about.

Like actual paint, it comes in different colors and can even be mixed together. An example of this was see with the Ryusei-Go's magenta color, which Tekkadan got from mixing their existing cheap white Nanolaminate Armor with some red ones they confiscated from Brewers.

In addition, the paint can even be taken from one part of a mobile suit to cover other parts. For example, in Barbatos Form 2, they took the blue paint from the waist and repainted it on the new shoulder parts taken from the Graze.

White is the cheapest of all colors while purple is the most expensive. There is no performance difference between them but white is seen as more disadvantageous due to the generally being more visible.

As mentioned, it's powered by Ahab Particles from the Ahab Reactors. This is one of the main factors that give it so much strength and the fact that ships have much larger class of Ahab Reactors is cited as the reason why their Nanolaminate Armor is more powerful. This is also presumably the reason why it can't be used on mobile workers plus other vehicles and locations that don't make use of Ahab Reactors. The sea naval ships briefly seen in Season 1 is an example of this.

I presume the fact that the paint uses Ahab Particles is one of the main reasons why it blocks beams so well despite seemingly being at an energy disadvantage. The beam makeup and the Ahab Particles on the armor may have a natural tendency to repel one another - especially if it turns out that the beams are made of Ahab Particles themselves.

It might be easier to think of it more like the GN Field from Gundam 00 but one that's active all the time. Great at blocking beams and solid ammunition but can be bypassed easily with solid melee weapons. The analogy isn't perfect*, but it mostly works.

The actual plate armor seemingly still plays a role in contributing to defense to some degree but the main meat of it is the paint. Presumably if the normal armor plating is completely useless there wouldn't be need for designs like Gusion Brewers and the Rodis.






*Technically GN Fields aren't weak against any solid weapons but solid objects that have GN Fields layered on their surfaces. This were mostly seen on GN-based solid blades but also on some missiles and remote weapons. This is unlike Nanolaminate Armor which is weak against any heavy blunt force without the need for special technology on it. Still, in general GN Fields in 00 are usually beaten by using solid melee so it's symbolically the panacea of it, which is why it's a good comparison to an extent.

[Faux Mecha]

so is there any technical reason on why this universe's MS's waist area is left exposed & less armored? the waist is just basically a spinal column supported by two pistons, also funny it happens to be the part of the body that rarely gets damaged despite how it looks.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Global Sword 2

so is there any technical reason on why this universe's MS's waist area is left exposed & less armored? the waist is just basically a spinal column supported by two pistons, also funny it happens to be the part of the body that rarely gets damaged despite how it looks.

So far they haven't said a thing about why it's there and what are the advantages and disadvantages.

For what it's worth, the mobile suit frames are made from a tough rare alloy. Barbatos's Mace and Kimaris's slasher projectiles were made from them for this reason and in the case of the former, it was pretty good at staying intact despite many hits it took while hitting other things.

That alloy was also used to make Deinsleif, which was a powerful type of anti-Nanolaminate Armor railgun ammunition that the Flauros and others used back in the war and that is currently banned by the post-war treaty (Ryusei-Go Flauros' current railgun ammunition type doesn't violate it, and presumably the same goes for the railguns that Gjallahorn are using at the moment).

I presume the tough alloy thing makes that part not so easy to destroy to the point where it's a critical flaw. It's also likely some advantage to having it since they will cover it in designs where armor and defense is more of a priority like the Rodis and Gusion Brewers. There's likely a tradeoff here between leaving it exposed and placing armor there. Interestingly we probabaly saw this in the Gusion, where it was taken off when they remodeled it to the Rebake form.

It's just that we don't know what the specifically the advantage it for yet. Best I can guess is something articulation or mobility related.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

So far they haven't said a thing about why it's there and what are the advantages and disadvantages.

For what it's worth, the mobile suit frames are made from a tough rare alloy. Barbatos's Mace and Kimaris's slasher projectiles were made from them for this reason and in the case of the former, it was pretty good at staying intact despite many hits it took while hitting other things.

That alloy was also used to make Deinsleif, which was a powerful type of anti-Nanolaminate Armor railgun ammunition that the Flauros and others used back in the war and that is currently banned by the post-war treaty (Ryusei-Go Flauros' current railgun ammunition type doesn't violate it, and presumably the same goes for the railguns that Gjallahorn are using at the moment).

I presume the tough alloy thing makes that part not so easy to destroy to the point where it's a critical flaw. It's also likely some advantage to having it since they will cover it in designs where armor and defense is more of a priority like the Rodis and Gusion Brewers. There's likely a tradeoff here between leaving it exposed and placing armor there. Interestingly we probabaly saw this in the Gusion, where it was taken off when they remodeled it to the Rebake form.

It's just that we don't know what the specifically the advantage it for yet. Best I can guess is something articulation or mobility related.

Well articulation/mobility wise armor around the waist have never hampered MS in other series, and even in the model kits it rarely hampers mobility (assuming the kit is decent/up to date to a degree at least)

The frame is still susceptible to attacks despite alloy toughness, otherwise theres not much point to having the amount of armor most MS have, and we have seen plenty of examples of parts being crushed and in rare occasions, cut





Overall though its more a stylistic/aesthetic choice for the series more than anything else. At this point most gundam fans who have paid a little attention to the mech designs can look at an IBO unit and identify it quickly with the series

[SonicSP]

Out of universe it's definitely an aesthetic decision, much like all giant humanoid robots in all Gundam shows are also aesthetic decisions made by the creators. That is more of a separate topic.

I'm referring to in-universe, since different universes would have different reasons for applying engineering decisions since sometimes they have different priorities and realities to adjust too. AMBAC for example is a big justification for the effectiveness of mobile suits in UC (and to a lesser extent 00) but it's not universally applied to all Gundam universes and won't even stand up to real life physics and mathematics. It's mainly there to enrich the lore and justify mobile suits being used in a fictional show to help the enjoyment of the fans.

I work under the assumption that the in-universe engineers have a specific reason for doing so, since they are quite well aware that they can cover - and do in fact cover it in designs that emphasize defense like the Rodis and Gusion Brewers. They even removed it in the latter for the Rebake conversion.

The frame alloy obviously isn't as effective as having armor there as the engineers themselves appear to be aware. The point I am trying to make isn't that armor won't add anything to the defense of the waist, but rather the lack of one isn't a critical flaw as it first appears because the alloy is pretty strong and that the mobile suit gains "something" from armor not being there.

Essentially what I'm saying is that I am waiting for the official "AMBAC" or in-universe justification explanation of the waist. I'm confident from what I have seen so far that they have a reason for doing so, just that it hasn't been directly stated to us viewers. It could be anything like mobility, something that makes wielding melee weapons better, something that makes Ahab Reactors function better, etc. Whether it would be a good or believable explanation by the writers is not yet certain though.

That is one of the pluses of AMBAC as an explanation in my opinion. Like many other things in Gundam, it is not realistic enough when applied to the real world but otherwise is good believable explanation for the levels needed for the show, much like a lot of other Gundam technologies.

One example of a tradeoff engineering decision that may not makes sense at face value is 00 Gundam's two shoulder GN Drives from 00. It's a location that comes with risks due to them being pretty exposed to attack but later source materials noted that placing the two GN Drives too close to each other will increase instability of the Twin Drive System - and god knows that thing is not stable.

So while placing them far apart and outside comes with risks in the case of 00 Gundam, the benefits of having a functioning powerful Twin Drive System is deemed a good enough tradeoff by the engineers despite the increased vulnerability. The waist thing in IBO may or may not have a good enough explanation eventually but I assume the engineers in that show had to make a similar decision just like the one I described above.

[Faux Mecha]

i could've sworn the Hashmal's roars were like picked from kaiju movies, its either Godzilla or Ultraman.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Global Sword 2

i could've sworn the Hashmal's roars were like picked from kaiju movies, its either Godzilla or Ultraman.

Apparently the AI decided it was the best way to instill fear into the heart of the people it hunted and the Japanese audience viewing the show












(joking of course)



@Sonic I really doubt they have (or thought of ahead of time) a functional explanation for the open waist/lower torse design, but if they write something in during future episodes or in the model kits im fine with that (as long as it makes sense)