(CR) Legend of the Galactic Heroes remake

[Anh_Minh]

I don't see why they can't compromise and make him an instructor. That way he would make more smart officers, and he'd still be on hand if they need him, but he'd be closer to his desired lifestyle as an academic.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by pervypig

I'm not sure if the previous episodes have adequately explained it so here's the spoiler warning:

Spoiler:

Isenhorn was one of 2 paths that the empire could invade the republic, the other being the Fezzan corridor (that rich ass featured in this episode is from there).

Spoiler for galactic geography:

I think the show might have mentioned that there are two paths but did not go into details, unlike the original OVA Episode 1, which actually showed us a MAP of the region with two paths clearly visible. It's one of the ways old presentation was better.

I do wonder how Mr Moneybags's side kept his independence back in the heyday of the Empire, when it was the undisputed overlord of all humans. Especially since Imperials seem to consider anyone not part of the Empire as REBELS. What stopped the imperial navy from knocking him over before the current spat with the Alliance?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't see why they can't compromise and make him an instructor. That way he would more smart officers, and he'd still be on hand if they need him, but he'd be closer to his desired lifestyle as an academic.

That might be a good solution LONG term. But they are instead looking at short term so they can win the next election. And to do that they need to score military victories now, not couple years to a decade down the line when Yang taught officers would reach the high enough command positions to make a difference.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

That might be a good solution LONG term. But they are instead looking at short term so they can win the next election. And to do that they need to score military victories now, not couple years to a decade down the line when Yang taught officers would reach the high enough command positions to make a difference.

I meant on his resignation thing. I don't suppose the politicians care about (or for) Yang. Sithole may not want to let him go, but like I said, there are postings other than "fleet commander" that would serve both sides (Yang and the rest of the Navy).

[4th Dimension]

Sure, but politics is still likely to be involved. He IS their golden goose. If they want this campaign to succeed at any cost, they need Young. And civilian oversight might have it within their rights to demand something like this.

[Kanon]

About the corridors, the anime definitely did mention them and showed us a map, but they didn't explain why they were the only two navigable paths between the empire and the FPA.

[Ithekro]

That was one of the mysteries about it, why just two places? What stops galactic travel otherwise that these two routes are all that exist?

[magnuskn]

This episode demonstrates the problems many animes have with a realistic depiction of politics. What would happen in this situation in the real world is that one of the three guys who voted against expanding the war would leak to the press that the others are planning to throw lives away to boost their parties ratings and the resulting scandal would basically make it impossible for them to go through with their insane plan.

[Ithekro]

What were these books written again? That might be reflected in there.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

This episode demonstrates the problems many animes have with a realistic depiction of politics. What would happen in this situation in the real world is that one of the three guys who voted against expanding the war would leak to the press that the others are planning to throw lives away to boost their parties ratings and the resulting scandal would basically make it impossible for them to go through with their insane plan.

*points at Iraq war and laugh at magnuskn


in the real world what will happen is that anyone against the war will be call UN-patroitic and traitors to the fatherland.



The whole alliance is on HIGH when Yang took iserlohn. Reasoning and logic work as well as the 2016 election in the face of populism and patriotism. There are too many people wither got too much too lose (politicans) or too much to gain (war profiteer) too pull out.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

What were these books written again? That might be reflected in there.

late80s and early 90s.

[EroBotan]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't see why they can't compromise and make him an instructor. That way he would make more smart officers, and he'd still be on hand if they need him, but he'd be closer to his desired lifestyle as an academic.

it takes time to create a capable tactician and even if they succesfully make one it will still hard for these students to beat someone with natural talent like Yang and Reinhard.

Zhuge Liang has a student named Ma Su. That student destroy Zhuge Liang's northern campaign and almost got his teacher and the whole army decimated. Memorizing all of the strategies written in books is easy, the hard part is knowing which strategy to implement during the course of war and how to execute it properly.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

in the real world what will happen is that anyone against the war will be call UN-patroitic and traitors to the fatherland.

The whole alliance is on HIGH when Yang took iserlohn. Reasoning and logic work as well as the 2016 election in the face of populism and patriotism. There are too many people wither got too much too lose (politicans) or too much to gain (war profiteer) too pull out.

isn't everyone against war these days in america? almost no one wants US to go to war to syria or attacking rusia despite the intense mainstream media campaigns to promote it. Europe shows no interest in war either. I think only rusia, arabs, africa, and maybe some 3rd world countries in asia who still think that war is good.

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by pervypig

I'm not sure if the previous episodes have adequately explained it so here's the spoiler warning:

Spoiler:

Isenhorn was one of 2 paths that the empire could invade the republic, the other being the Fezzan corridor (that rich ass featured in this episode is from there).

Having one door to your house under your control may not be sufficient to keep the wolves out entirely, but it sure beats having to keep a massive fleet around to guard against invaders 24/7. I'm sure they could afford to de-mob part, if not the number the anti-war politician suggested.

And that's why democracy sucked according to the show- voices of reason are never loud enough cos they are too boring in the face of sounds and fury. That said, Yang's best choice was never to have fought and won Isenhorn in the 1st place. Now, there's no more path for him to quit ever again.

The reason why Isenhorn Corridor is so hard to beat, saying that the fort is "hard to fall" also has something to do with LOGH's galaxy structure. There are literally only TWO corridors that can travel between Alliance and Empire, the rest of the universe is too dangerous to travel across; and for Isenhorn Corridor itself, it's not a perfectly-navigable corridor as well, imagine the Channel Tunnel being the only path crossing English Channel. Cars can cross it, but the tunnel structure limits how many cars can cross at a time. Add a Border Check in the middle and you get the general picture for the Corridor.

So, it's possible for Yang holding Isenhorn Fortress, having another few fleets standing by guarding the other way, and the rest can turn to reserves and most importantly, manpower for the Alliance. At least it's what they can achieve on paper.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

This episode demonstrates the problems many animes have with a realistic depiction of politics. What would happen in this situation in the real world is that one of the three guys who voted against expanding the war would leak to the press that the others are planning to throw lives away to boost their parties ratings and the resulting scandal would basically make it impossible for them to go through with their insane plan.

They'd deny and counter-accuse. Trunicht's obviously waiting to have a concrete disaster before shouting loud and clear he was against it. Considering his ties with the jackbooted thugs who attacked Yang, it's not hard to guess what he'll say.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

That was one of the mysteries about it, why just two places? What stops galactic travel otherwise that these two routes are all that exist?

Well, FTL travel works by <random technobabble>, therefore <random technobabble> can obstruct it.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Kanon

About the corridors, the anime definitely did mention them and showed us a map, but they didn't explain why they were the only two navigable paths between the empire and the FPA.

Actually, I checked the intro to the Ep 1 in new and old episode, and the new doesn't show the corridors (imgur galery so I don't spam the board with large images).

Images

Just map comparision

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The new one DOES mention the Pheasant, but doesn't say anything about passages.

By contrast the old map even has "hyperlanes" (I'm assuming the FTL is done by hopping from system to system, given that there are lines on that map linking stars.

[Kanon]

It wasn't in the first episode that they mentioned the corridors, I think it was one of the episode before the capture of Iserlohn, since they had to explain why it was so important. Really can't tell you which one though. What makes it even harder to find is that I don't think it was at the beginning of the ep. Anyway, I vividly recall them mentioning the Iserlohn and Fezzan corridors being the only available routes between the empire and the FPA.

[pervypig]

...Yeah, and I kinda remember the word Iserlohn getting repeated SO FRIGGING MANY TIMES in the old show that I started chanting it (... was a wee kid back then...).

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

*points at Iraq war and laugh at magnuskn

in the real world what will happen is that anyone against the war will be call UN-patroitic and traitors to the fatherland.

The whole alliance is on HIGH when Yang took iserlohn. Reasoning and logic work as well as the 2016 election in the face of populism and patriotism. There are too many people wither got too much too lose (politicans) or too much to gain (war profiteer) too pull out.

Apparently you didn't watch the episode, given your ignorant comment.

The approval rating of the government in the series is way down, something like 65% disapproval. This is after the capture of Iserlohn. They don't enjoy the nigh invulnerable approval George W. Bush did during the ramp up to the Iraq war, which made media outlets suppress any dissenting opinion. In the political climate of the anime, a scandal like the obvious manipulation the ruling council is planning would politically paralyze them until the next election comes along.

[Dark Kain]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

I think the show might have mentioned that there are two paths but did not go into details, unlike the original OVA Episode 1, which actually showed us a MAP of the region with two paths clearly visible. It's one of the ways old presentation was better.

Spoiler:

I do wonder how Mr Moneybags's side kept his independence back in the heyday of the Empire, when it was the undisputed overlord of all humans. Especially since Imperials seem to consider anyone not part of the Empire as REBELS. What stopped the imperial navy from knocking him over before the current spat with the Alliance?

I can answer the spoilered question, not really a spoiler IMHO but I will put under spoiler tag anyway.

Spoiler:

The Dominion of Fezzan *IS* part of the Empire.
It's an higly autonomous region that was given special privileges long ago and used its autonomy, privileges and geographical position to build an economical empire and an alarming level of influence on both sides of the conflict.

Given that Fezzan is, formally, a vassal of the empire the emperor can't just attack it.
Also revoking the privileges wouldn't be simple since the nobles in the imperial court would be opposed, fearing that the same could happen to them (and also, due to its influence, Fezzan's retaliation could be dangerous and open a civil war scenario).

There is also the fact that the Empire and the alliance still enjoy some degree of trade between each other; but can't do it directly for obvious reasons, and Fezzan is the perfect in-between.

For a real life example think to the relationship between the Holy Roman Empire and its most autonomous states such as the imperial free cities and/or the italian city states.

[4th Dimension]

Okay, that does make sense.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by Dark Kain

I can answer the spoilered question, not really a spoiler IMHO but I will put under spoiler tag anyway.

Spoiler:

The Dominion of Fezzan *IS* part of the Empire.
It's an higly autonomous region that was given special privileges long ago and used its autonomy, privileges and geographical position to build an economical empire and an alarming level of influence on both sides of the conflict.

Given that Fezzan is, formally, a vassal of the empire the emperor can't just attack it.
Also revoking the privileges wouldn't be simple since the nobles in the imperial court would be opposed, fearing that the same could happen to them (and also, due to its influence, Fezzan's retaliation could be dangerous and open a civil war scenario).

There is also the fact that the Empire and the alliance still enjoy some degree of trade between each other; but can't do it directly for obvious reasons, and Fezzan is the perfect in-between.

For a real life example think to the relationship between the Holy Roman Empire and its most autonomous states such as the imperial free cities and/or the italian city states.

Not that it relly helped them much if (as hinted last ep.) a new emperor arise from the empire.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

This episode demonstrates the problems many animes have with a realistic depiction of politics. What would happen in this situation in the real world is that one of the three guys who voted against expanding the war would leak to the press that the others are planning to throw lives away to boost their parties ratings and the resulting scandal would basically make it impossible for them to go through with their insane plan.

It's possible that there were leaks and this is partly what has contributed to the rise of the anti-war faction. But at the end of the day, this society may well be the very type of post-truth, post-shame world that we live in where no amount of damaging leaks or high disapproval ratings stop an administration from doing unpopular things because of a stubborn single-minded base and/or the support of the wealthy. It's also possible that their mainstream media is largely pro-war and an effective blackout means that a majority of voters don't even know this decision is even being made. Granted none of that is actually mentioned in the episode though.

For the record, do national approval ratings matter much to a government? I feel like it's more each representative's specific approval ratings in their area and its collective effect, that is the biggest factor.

In any case, whilst I did enjoy the politics, I do think it could've done better to portray the pro-war faction. Imperialism has largely had its day in our world so such portrayals aren't really effective political commentaries anymore. I would've liked more appreciation on whether they have legitimate security concerns and whether it is worth the risk in negotiating a truce with an enemy that is set out to destroy them(?). I'm reminded of my country's debate surrounding Trident: Despite the unabashed astronomical cost, popular opinion still leans towards maintaining it.