2019-02-09, 23:21 | Link #41 | |||||
Master of Killing Time
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
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Herein lies the difference between shield hero and other shows with slaves in it, (death march and isekai maou being the most recent examples) Naofumi didn't see Raph as a person at first, she was a tool, useful only as child labor. Quote:
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If Raph over time and when she matured thought that her life wasn't so bad after all and decided to stick with Naofumi (even going so far as to restore the seal even if it's useless) then it's all well and good, but you'll never shake off the fact that there was a time when she was coerced into doing things that she didn't want, and one will never be sure whether it's a fully conscious decision or if it's tainted with the conditioning created by the seal when she's still a child. Quote:
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I always forget that we're talking about an isekai series so talks about stockholm syndrome might not even be valid since the condition might not even exist in that world. It's entirely possible that at one point Raph was indeed forced to fight when she didn't want to, but after drinking potions that can apparently cure physical and mental illnesses then she has seen the light on how the shield hero is teaching her to stand up for herself, healing her and teaching her to fight, became more mature in her thinking and is 100% genuinely and consciously supporting the shield hero in his fight, while harboring innocent romantic feelings for him. Yep, I think I can live with that interpretation
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2019-02-10, 00:00 | Link #42 | ||||||
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Out of necessity, he probably would purchase another slave. But don't think for a second that it wouldn't eat away at him. He is always the front-liner in every battle. If she dies, that means he is already dead because that is the degree to which he tries to protect her. She's never been injured, he's been severely wounded multiple times. Quote:
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Though just a little nitpick. Her "mental Illness" was the night terrors she had from losing her parents. I don't think the medicine cured those. She lost them after she committed herself to killing the dog monster because she didn't want to lose Naofumi. She compared the thought of losing him to losing her parents a second time. She can now better cope with losing her parents because Naofumi is there for her.
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Last edited by Demi.; 2019-02-10 at 00:34. |
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2019-02-10, 03:54 | Link #43 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Here's an idea. Raph is the heroine destined to save the world, but she can't because she's a slave (this is what slavery does). Her current owner treats her kindly as Naofumi but won't release her. So she lies to the other slaves that her owner raped her, and they lynch him. It works even better because Tanuki are tricksters, maybe they feed him to his wife in a stew (only joking)? The slaves escape together and save the world, then get recaptured and sentenced to death. A pardon is granted just in time to save all the slaves, except Raph, who resigns herself to being killed for her original sin. That would be a moral work about necessity, with a heroine I could admire (though moreso if she just killed the owner herself). Melville and Turtledove already used bits of it though. Last edited by Ghostfriendly; 2019-02-10 at 05:32. |
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2019-02-10, 10:19 | Link #44 | ||
Master of Killing Time
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Makinohara Service Area
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2019-02-10, 11:56 | Link #45 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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I've long felt that a good story doesn't shove moral lessons down the audience's throat, but rather presents the story to you and leaves you to judge what's right and wrong and whether any special circumstances have an impact on the morality of things. Like a man having no choice but to buy a slave or a former slave who decides of her own free will to return to it for some reason, be it trust that in their relationship it'd have no meaning or some sort of concern for the guy's still-fragile mental state or any number of other reasons. This puts the audience in a position to question things. The questions may be obvious, but I still prefer stories that let you answer them to stories that force the answer on me or tell me I'm wrong if I didn't answer a certain way. |
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2019-02-10, 17:31 | Link #47 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Raph is pretty messed up imo for her to not only want to seal back but to put it on her chest where loads of people are going to look at it. She pretty much sexualized a slave seal imo.
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Last edited by orion; 2019-02-10 at 17:46. |
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2019-02-10, 17:56 | Link #48 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Has there been any evidence to suggest that the slave seal can be put anywhere else? That's the same place loli Raph had her slave seal, and it's the place that Filo has hers. It appears to be the typical place a slave gets the mark, not a preference to where Raphtalia wanted it. Also Raph doesn't wear revealing clothing so no one will be able to see it.
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2019-02-10, 17:57 | Link #49 | ||
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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2019-02-10, 18:18 | Link #50 | |
Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 36
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It's usually tied with a ribbon so no one will see it at all. So unless she not only opens up that ribbon but also loosens that corset-like part of her tabard, no one is going to see the seal at all. Also it got placed where it was before it got removed.
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2019-02-10, 18:26 | Link #51 | ||
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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https://humantraffickinghotline.org/states Quote:
It could be placed in other areas, right? Like on an arm, hand, etc. Placing it on the chest is a pretty sexualized place. If you really want to get a slave to do something, what's wrong with the neck? It's pretty direct. You suffocate the slave when he/she doesn't obey. Spoiler for info from another thread here:
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Last edited by orion; 2019-02-10 at 18:45. |
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2019-02-10, 19:04 | Link #52 | |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Spoiler for further elaboration about that point:
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2019-02-11, 14:40 | Link #53 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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I know full well that enslaved women are very often sexually abused. But one needs to recognize the difference between "what often happens in the real world" and "what's likely to happen with this character". |
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2019-02-17, 09:46 | Link #54 | |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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No wonder the country is a matriarchy. Of course the "evil kingdom" would be that if it's a fantasy centered around hardcore misogyny for trap plot. The slave seal as the one true bond, the mental breakdown, Naofumi's mentality all click into place now. I had some faith in the action of the series, but given it's at best just a tone down version of that sort of trash at the core, I've lost all interest now. Dropped, there's no lack of other things to watch.
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2019-02-17, 15:56 | Link #56 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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Seriously that's a disgusting way to misrepresent this series. For starters, there's the issue that the woman truly in charge is apparently an ally; in a sense Mein and Aultcray are screwing her over too. This "evil matriarchy" is only evil currently under the rule of a corrupt king who's acting on his own while his wife's dealing with diplomatic issues.
Additionally, regardless of one's opinion of the slave seal itself I'd hardly call Raphtalia "subservient". She's made it pretty clear that she's her own person. |
2019-02-17, 16:52 | Link #59 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Well, that is certainly a way to get out of a discussion one was losing constantly. "Declaring victory" and walking away.
*late edit* Not referring to The Green One here, but to Felix.
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2019-02-18 at 11:02. Reason: Just noted that my reply could be taken to be directed at the wrong person |
2019-02-17, 19:12 | Link #60 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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Actually, I'd say that rather than "misogynistic" the message the story seems to have about women is that they're just people like the rest of us and therefore you shouldn't just jump to any conclusion. They can be so selfish and cruel that they'd try to ruin a person in the worst ways possible just for a small personal advantage or try to drain an entire community dry for personal gain, or they can be virtuous souls who put their lives on the line every day for the sake of the people and children around them. They can be the kind of person to set you up for the soul purpose of taking advantage of your good faith, or the kind that will stand with you to the end no matter what anyone says because they know and trust you. They can be weak-willed, frightened people who'd act like servants even when free to do as they please or strong, independent individuals whose will can't be cowed even by contracts designed to do just that. And they can change or fail to change. They can grow from a terrified weakling desperate to cling to and please a strong savior into a powerful warrior who can and will stand up to anyone and anything that she deems evil. Or they can simply become more of what they already were. We've already seen enough women and changes among women that I believe claiming the series wants to suggest that independent women are bad or that rape frameups are common or that a good woman is subservient in nature is just ridiculous. It simply tells us not to decide how things are too quickly, as just like men they are capable of anything and can easily surprise you time and again.
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