(CR) Sousou no Frieren (Frieren: Beyond Journey's End)

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No she only blew one arm before her barrage. She destroyed the other afterward.

Watch it again. 19:42 Fern blows off the left arm, then 19:49 when clone-Frieren tries to retaliate with the right staff arm, it gets blown off as well. 19:53 we get the machine gun barrage. Smoke clears by 20:00 and we have hair-let-down clone-Frieren.

I guess the barrage did take out the hair ties and damaged her clothing a bit.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No she only blew one arm before her barrage. She destroyed the other afterward.

Fern took off the clone's left arm with her surprise attack. Then Fern took off the right staff arm with her other shot before she started her barrage.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The anime doesn't show it properly but Fern was breaking through the clone's barrier. That's what really notable about all this and it's a shame the anime missed those details.

You can see the clone's barrier falling apart. I think the anime conveyed that just fine.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

You can see the clone's barrier falling apart. I think the anime conveyed that just fine.

Yeah, there's no doubt Fern was chipping clone-Frieren down. My point is that the brief pause doesn't really feel like an opening she needed either.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Watch it again. 19:42 Fern blows off the left arm, then 19:49 when clone-Frieren tries to retaliate

You're right. I didn't notice that.

They portrayed the scene very differently from the manga though. In the manga, her first attack doesn't produce any critical damage. The barrage damages the clone's arms. Fern breaks through her barrier and destroy her arms, which I think makes more sense imo. It also shows she could have finished off the clone if she didn't stop attacking.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

You're right. I didn't notice that.

They portrayed the scene very differently from the manga though. In the manga, her first attack doesn't produce any critical damage. The barrage damages the clone's arms. Fern breaks through her barrier and destroy her arms, which I think makes more sense imo. It also shows she could have finished off the clone if she didn't stop attacking.

Both ways can make logical sense to me. I like the idea of Fern blasting until she got through the defense partially just as much as the idea that only the surprise round let her damage Frieren but she's still good enough to defend after that.



What I think though is that even if Fern hadn't let up, clone-Frieren was about to unleash that no-warning blast counter-attack regardless. Even in the manga-scenario you described, it would imply clone-Frieren let her arms get hit to avoid the deathblow after all. She was already about to counter. And it flows better into the Fern's comment about clone-Frieren finally greatly letting her guard down.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Both ways can make logical sense to me. What I think though is that even if Fern hadn't let up, clone-Frieren was about to unleash that no-warning blast counter-attack regardless.

I think the clone would have been reduce to dust before unleashing anything if she hadn't stopped. She made a miscalculation, which makes sense considering her age and lack of experience.

[Metaneo]

I had to go look at the Manga frame again as I thought the Frieren clone only lost the left arm. What I thought was the right arm was just the sleeve hanging down.

[Kazu-kun]

Yeah. In the manga she blew both its arms too. It just happened in a different way.

[GDB]

Damn, that was so visually stunning.

Also, I didn't realize in the manga but noticed in the anime: there was more than one mimic at the end. She had already been eaten at least twice before the others saw her being eaten by a third (or higher count) mimic.

[frubam]

If mages can fight at this level, then what good are the frontliners other than tank fodder? Feels like Frieren could have taken down the Demon King by herself with this kind of power.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by frubam

Feels like Frieren could have taken down the Demon King by herself with this kind of power.

Maybe she really did that.
We don't yet know what actually happened during the fight against the Demon King 80 years ago, except that the Hero Party had defeated it and the primary credit went to Himmel, plus Frieren was forced to use the same move 80 years ago that Clone Frieren used against Fern in recent episode.

[ChronoReverse]

To be fair, even Stark's training strikes appear to be able to cleave small mountains. There also seems to be magic resistant creatures which take a lot of effort from mages to defeat that someone like Stark could one-hit-kill. There seems to be plenty of room for the powerful melee in this story anyway.

And who knows, maybe 80 years ago, Frieren finished off the demon king while the melee guarded her while her attention was solely on the demon king.

[grecefar]

it got difficult when the clones got back, I thought that was it for most of them but in the end their plan worked.

great chapter and funny ending.

[Kanon]

The animation was truly amazing. Maybe a bit too much, as it appears to have made Frieren seem way too powerful. The gravity spell and the golem spell were entirely anime original. In the manga, she only used the lightning and fire spells.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Fern destroyed both the clone's arms. If she didn't stop, she could have finishing it off on her own. But I guess it's a bit too early for her. The talent is there though. Eventually, she'll be ready to play at Frieren's level.

I think she stopped because she couldn't see through the smoke and assumed it was safe since she knew for a fact she had blown both of the clone's arms off. I'd say this is partially on Frieren, if she had told her about that trump card, Fern would have been more careful. Of course in a real fight there'd be no one to give her tips, so still a mistake on her part.

Originally Posted by frubam

If mages can fight at this level, then what good are the frontliners other than tank fodder? Feels like Frieren could have taken down the Demon King by herself with this kind of power.

As I said above, the anime exaggerated her power. Even so, there are creatures resistant if not immune to magic like the dragon Stark easily beat, a mage would be completely screwed without a warrior with them.

[ChronoReverse]

Unless the fire and lightning spells were weaker in the manga, I don't really see the gravity and golem spells as significantly stronger. Those were some massive AOE spells and I can see why Frieren said most of the candidates would outright die.

I bet even the manga doesn't touch on this but I wonder how intelligent the Spiegel was. It probably instinctively puts the strongest clone in the guard position but I would've put both Sense and Frieren there to make it even more impossible for anyone to get past.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Unless the fire and lightning spells were weaker in the manga, I don't really see the gravity and golem spells as significantly stronger. Those were some massive AOE spells and I can see why Frieren said most of the candidates would outright die.

I bet even the manga doesn't touch on this but I wonder how intelligent the Spiegel was. It probably instinctively puts the strongest clone in the guard position but I would've put both Sense and Frieren there to make it even more impossible for anyone to get past.

Those two spells definitely didn't look as impressive as in the anime in the manga. The fights in the manga are extremely brief, lasting only a few pages if not outright happening off-panel. The anime expanded on a lot.

If you're interested in comparing the two, it's chapter 53 to 55. You'll be surprised how much the anime added.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Those two spells definitely didn't look as impressive as in the anime in the manga. The fights in the manga are extremely brief, lasting only a few pages if not outright happening off-panel. The anime expanded on a lot.

If you're interested in comparing the two, it's chapter 53 to 55. You'll be surprised how much the anime added.

I'll do that after the anime ends. I doubt I can wait for the second season

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by frubam

If mages can fight at this level, then what good are the frontliners other than tank fodder? Feels like Frieren could have taken down the Demon King by herself with this kind of power.

Richter and Sense showed that mages aren't very good at defending against physical attacks and some monsters are resistant to magic like the dragon Stark fought.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Twi

Wirbel must be tired from carrying his team on his back so much.

And his team probably enjoys it too much .

Originally Posted by Dextro

I'm sad that Lavine had to give up after being jumped from behind. RIP her first-class mage aspirations (for now)

The best part is Kanne passed and will totally lord it over her .

Originally Posted by Huh...?

Maybe she really did that.
We don't yet know what actually happened during the fight against the Demon King 80 years ago, except that the Hero Party had defeated it and the primary credit went to Himmel, plus Frieren was forced to use the same move 80 years ago that Clone Frieren used against Fern in recent episode.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

To be fair, even Stark's training strikes appear to be able to cleave small mountains. There also seems to be magic resistant creatures which take a lot of effort from mages to defeat that someone like Stark could one-hit-kill. There seems to be plenty of room for the powerful melee in this story anyway.

And who knows, maybe 80 years ago, Frieren finished off the demon king while the melee guarded her while her attention was solely on the demon king.

Using it on Fern left the clone open to Frieren attacking it, so I assume the rest of the party were covering for her when she unleashed it on the Demon King.

I also wonder if she may have gone all out if the Demon King had hurt Himmel.

[FlareKnight]

I'm glad the fight wasn't over as fast as it appeared last week. Really allowed the spectacle to play out. And got a great feel for how utterly powerful Frieren is. But also that Fern has plenty of potential. She's just got room to grow and will take time to get there. She couldn't spot and capitalize without Frieren drawing out a much bigger opening. But she delivered some great hits. She just hesitated a little bit and that really let her take a beating from whatever attack Frieren used there.

This does make me utterly hungry for an eventual flashback of the group versus the Demon King. My god that must have been a wild fight! Seems almost certain that Frieren did use that crazy spell during that fight. But the flow of battle and how it all played out would be great to see. The Demon King is probably a bit sturdier than Fern so maybe that didn't outright finish him, but restrained his movements enough for Himmel to get a killing blow in? Who knows. But hopefully someday down the road we'll see what happened.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Unless the fire and lightning spells were weaker in the manga, I don't really see the gravity and golem spells as significantly stronger. Those were some massive AOE spells and I can see why Frieren said most of the candidates would outright die.

I bet even the manga doesn't touch on this but I wonder how intelligent the Spiegel was. It probably instinctively puts the strongest clone in the guard position but I would've put both Sense and Frieren there to make it even more impossible for anyone to get past.

Hard to say. I think the usage of mages was reasonable in terms of tactics. Sense was hard to detect which made her a terrifying roaming threat. Swinging around and crushing as many as possible to reduce the amount that could gather together isn't awful in terms of tactics. Same with using Fern in a similar capacity. But it's intelligence is probably not top tier. It made solid moves considering the skills of the people it is copying. But not necessarily the absolute best.

Although maybe it had limitations. Otherwise why not just have all the clones start out right at the goal? Most seemed to be traveling down that way. Maybe it was restrained from creating more than one copy at the goal and had to drop the rest a bit further out?