AnimeSuki Forums

sl^sh3r · 2007-01-05, 08:09

hey I have a question.....

Suppose you live in the US and buy a manga volume released in english by Viz.
Say One Piece Volume 1, which costs about $8 (US),
how much of that $8 actually finds its way back to the mangaka?

otakiw · 2007-01-05, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aristophanes

I think the guy was asking more about the spiritual implications of Manga Fandom, not whether you actually brought manga or not.

That's true, I don't wanyt to turn this thread into a discussion about manga finance; what I wanted to find was the reasons why people beleive themselfs to be a 'fan'. But what Vexx (and others) say is very relevant, because they believe that paying for their entertainment is what makes them a fan - which is a very fair and valid point.

So 'Aristophanes', what then makes you beleive yourself to be a manga fan? What is your personal fellings towards the "spiritual implications of Manga Fandom"?

Forbin · 2007-01-05, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl^sh3r

hey I have a question.....

Suppose you live in the US and buy a manga volume released in english by Viz.
Say One Piece Volume 1, which costs about $8 (US),
how much of that $8 actually finds its way back to the mangaka?

I'm pulling this out of my ass but if the trends follow music business (Which I DO follow).

$8 = US Price
$3.20 = BookStore (40% Profit Margin)
$1.00 = Production Costs (Printing/Shipping/Etc)
$2.00 = Viz (Which fronted the money for the translator and Editor)
$1.60 = Shuiesha (Or whomever originally printed it - 20% Margin)
$0.20 = Mangaka License. (2.5%)

Now of course a title like Love Hina or Negima fetches more than 2.5% for Akamatsu but even he can't ask for more than 5%. (And if you notice, Negima is $12.95)

You do know when they say if you download music you are ripping off the artist? The truth is if you download the music you are ripping the writer of the music about $0.10 (After the label and producer) and you are costing the artist nothing because they didn't get anything after making the album.

But if you don't buy at least 1 manga you are ripping off the Mangaka. A REAL fan would not rip off their idols.

sl^sh3r · 2007-01-05, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin

$0.20 = Mangaka License. (2.5%)

Now THAT just sucks!!!

Mangakas should just start their own website with a big DONATE button, they'd probably get more money then lol~~

Vexx · 2007-01-05, 15:25

That's why the Internet scares the music industry (and the publishing industry to a lesser extent). The artist *can* take a short cut and rely on word-of-mouth. Fortunately... as artists and authors learn. Sometimes its just easier to let the pros handle the marketing and distribution --- really what is needed is for the middlemen to return to a more balanced "service" mentality instead of an "I own you" mentality.

"spiritually" ... I prefer fans who actually want to understand the context in which manga is written rather than fans who are just here for the "boobs, ego-posturing, and explosions". To me (imo, ymmv, etc), wanting to understand the cultural context in which a manga is written (even if it is simpler as doing some googling/wiki to find out why someone does something a certain way or why they make the choice they do (for harmony, wai, honor, etc) or what is that religious stuff they're doing?) goes a long way in differentiating fans. Naturally that is more directed at non-japanese fans - but I'd also assume that japanese fans should be more interested in the basis for representations of foreign concepts and characters.
If I read a book written by a German or an East Indian - it is probably going to make more sense if I understand the contextual and cultural assumptions. The same goes for Japanese works...

Lotiman · 2007-01-06, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl^sh3r

Now THAT just sucks!!!

Mangakas should just start their own website with a big DONATE button, they'd probably get more money then lol~~

Actually $0.20 is a lot considered it to be 20cents per each volume sold.

sl^sh3r · 2007-01-06, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotiman

Actually $0.20 is a lot considered it to be 20cents per each volume sold.

20 cents is nothing......because it would require the manga to sell 50,000 copies before the mangaka can get even $10,000......

Forbin · 2007-01-07, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl^sh3r

20 cents is nothing......because it would require the manga to sell 50,000 copies before the mangaka can get even $10,000......

Well not everyone can be the JK Rowling (Highest paid Author ever) or Rumiko Takahashi (Highest Paid Japanese Mangaka). Most Mangaka's are like Harimi Kenji. Just an ordinary dude eeking out a living of writing a book that people like to read.

chasqui85 · 2007-01-07, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin

Well not everyone can be the JK Rowling (Highest paid Author ever) or Rumiko Takahashi (Highest Paid Japanese Mangaka). Most Mangaka's are like Harimi Kenji. Just an ordinary dude eeking out a living of writing a book that people like to read.

From reading all the post about the amount of money that mangaka's receive. Would that make them a average class worker??

Soconfused · 2007-01-08, 03:24

I consider myself an avid manga fan. I've read countless manga and have never even thought about acually buying one. Mainly because I'm the type of guy who will read a manga once or twice and probably never pick it up again, even if it's one of my faves. I feel no need to have a bookcase full of my favorite manga just to say I bought them. The only reason I would ever buy it would be to share it with some friends who seem interested, which would never happen because most of my friends don't like manga....

Forbin · 2007-01-08, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soconfused

I consider myself an avid manga fan. I've read countless manga and have never even thought about acually buying one. Mainly because I'm the type of guy who will read a manga once or twice and probably never pick it up again, even if it's one of my faves. I feel no need to have a bookcase full of my favorite manga just to say I bought them. The only reason I would ever buy it would be to share it with some friends who seem interested, which would never happen because most of my friends don't like manga....

So you call yourself an Avid Manga fan. That is true. I wouldn't call you a Real manga fan but Avid is ok.

traziemykel · 2007-01-08, 15:26

Mm.. how bout supporting the mangaka?
buy your manga?!
collect manga?!
read manga 24/7 ^^

2H-Dragon · 2007-01-08, 15:53

A true fan is just some1 who loves manga. Nothin more, nothin less.

Forbin · 2007-01-08, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2H-Dragon

A true fan is just some1 who loves manga. Nothin more, nothin less.

Sorry, but that's just a fan. A true fan would not steal from their idols.

BTW I never said to own everything. But if you don't even own ONE, you can't be a true fan.

traziemykel · 2007-01-08, 22:46

lol @ forbin
i agree... just reading the manga or downloading it does make u a fan.. but not a true fan.. a true collects it.. supports the mangaka. ^^

Doraneko · 2007-01-08, 23:10

Definition of "fan" from Oxford Dictionary:

Quote:

noun: a person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular sport, art form, or famous person.

— DERIVATIVES fandom noun.

— ORIGIN abbreviation of FANATIC.

Literally, the most essential quality that defines a fan is only the passion towards the subject form. So a real manga fan is simply a person whose passion towards manga is strong and significant enough. The act of supporting the subject form in monetary terms, though highly correlates to one's passion towards that subject form, does NOT define your status as a "fan," but a "collector." Let's say I had thousands of 50-60s manga and wouldn't give a damn to the content, but just keep them for the sake of resaling. Would this make me a fan?

I am pretty amused that a few comments here resort on name-calling the others as thieves who don't deserve to be regarded as real fans. I hope that someone here can bear in mind that not everyone here lives in America or Japan. Manga is by no means a vital good like drinking water, and you cannot expect every individual on the planet to be granted legal access to it. Yes, scanlations are illegal, but this has nothing to do with whether a person is a real fan or not. The idea that reading library materials without buying them makes you a thief is even more absurd and is beyond my capability to comprehend.

I expected an intellectual discussion on the true spirit and essential virtues on being a real manga fan. A bit disappointed that only a few comments go to this direction.

Anyway, relevant or not, recently there are some heated debates in the Japanese anime/manga fan circles on the deterioation of the fandom into consumerism.

In the past, the idea of "fan" emphasize on the aspect of personal output to the fan circle. SF fans might go into months of research on how a fictional anime spacecraft can be constructed within the laws of physics, and use their findings to complement the official stats. Besides on digging in the setting stuff, people can show their passion by making fan-sites, doujinshi and engaging in debates with the others that share the same interest. The most important thing is to show that how a specific work has changed you as a person as well as your own thoughts on it, instead of the size of your backlog.

But at present, a typical fan who falls prey to consumerism will first get moe'ed by a girl in a late night anime show. He will then go to Akihabara, spend all his cash to get every single wallscroll/figure/artbook/DVD/game/manga, and chuckle at them when he returned home. If he was not satisfied, he may even go to auction sites to spend the remaining cents of his bank account. He may attend conventions. But instead of meeting others and making new friends who share the same interest, what he is interested in is solely the latest limited edition goods. Three/six months later, when there is an alternate show with an even better girl, the process will repeat again, again and again, and wouldn't stop even when his tiny apartment is filled up with such merchandise.

By the way, before you point your fingers at me and shout "thief!," I would like to let you know that I have 200+ tankoubons. I also am a subscriber to manga magazines like Dengeki Daioh, Dengeki Gao and Comptiq Ace. And no, I have no interest in scanlations at all. Personally I consider myself as a fan and a collector, but not a real fan as I have yet to make any significant contribution to the fandom.

Forbin · 2007-01-09, 12:18

Well good for you Dora!

You define yourself as a collector because you have a ton of books (Some of which you don't read).

You don't consider yourself a real fan because you don't contribute anything. Well that is in your eyes. In my eyes you are a Real fan because of you a mangaka got to eat a bowl of rice (all 20 cents of it) each time you bought a book. That's the best contribution of them all. If everyone just wrote fan art and no one bought Ken A's books, then there would be no fan art. Get it? It's a required circle. Buy Books = Money in Ken A's Pocket = Food , Electricity = Energy to make more Manga. Read Scans + Make Fan Art + Comment on AnimeSuki + Sell TShirts = Penniless Pissed Off Mangaka at people who steal his art.

Going to the Library to read a book doesn't make you a thief. That is true. But going to the library doesn't make you a real fan. It just makes you a fan. Downloading a Scantalation doesn't make you a thief. (Well it does in the author's mind). But saying out loud that you have no intention of ever buying a manga or donating money to Scantalation group (Which I do that too) but you read tons of scantalations and go to the library IS a thief.

How can such a person call himself (or herself) a Real Fan. A Real fan can go up to Ken Akamatsu and thank him for writing such a Panty filled manga as Negima then CURSE him for allowing Xebec to F it up! Because they have helped Ken A to make such a wonderful or crappy product. A person who never pays for any manga (Yet has a playstation, Computer, Ipod) is just a thief.

traziemykel · 2007-01-09, 13:37

LOl @ Forbin..

anywaiz.. a fan is afan.. a true fan is a true fan...

Forbin · 2007-01-09, 14:03

Hehe I'm a bit on a Moral High horse because someone (who I know IRL) told me he's a true (True not real) fan because he goes to AX (he wants to cosplay this year too). I went but all you do is Pirate DVD's and Read Scantalations? How in the Heck are you a true fan? Which he then replied that he is poor college student and can't afford it. Then the conversation turned to his new Playstation 2 he just bought. He showed me a picture of it with his new Sidekick cellphone he bought too.

Heh.

HeartNana · 2007-01-10, 02:38

How about this?
My favorite series for anime by far is Haruhi Suzumiya. Granted, i'm in Japan right now, but my Japanese isnt strong enough to follow Haruhi.

I have absolutely no intention of buying Japanese DVD's at ridiculous prices like 60 USD for 1-2 episodes.

Even though its gonna be licensed in America, let's assume it's not going to be. I buy Haruhi CD soundtracks, Haruhi goods that i see at stores here (phone straps, mousepads, t-shirts, sos-dan armbands, keychains, etc) but i refuse to buy the DVD's at outrageous prices, especially when its all in Japanese with no subtitles to help me out.

Am i a true fan of the series or am i a thief?

2007-01-05, 15:25	Link #25
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	That's why the Internet scares the music industry (and the publishing industry to a lesser extent). The artist can take a short cut and rely on word-of-mouth. Fortunately... as artists and authors learn. Sometimes its just easier to let the pros handle the marketing and distribution --- really what is needed is for the middlemen to return to a more balanced "service" mentality instead of an "I own you" mentality. "spiritually" ... I prefer fans who actually want to understand the context in which manga is written rather than fans who are just here for the "boobs, ego-posturing, and explosions". To me (imo, ymmv, etc), wanting to understand the cultural context in which a manga is written (even if it is simpler as doing some googling/wiki to find out why someone does something a certain way or why they make the choice they do (for harmony, wai, honor, etc) or what is that religious stuff they're doing?) goes a long way in differentiating fans. Naturally that is more directed at non-japanese fans - but I'd also assume that japanese fans should be more interested in the basis for representations of foreign concepts and characters. If I read a book written by a German or an East Indian - it is probably going to make more sense if I understand the contextual and cultural assumptions. The same goes for Japanese works... __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-01-08, 03:24	Link #30
Soconfused Old God Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: you....don't wanna know Age: 37	I consider myself an avid manga fan. I've read countless manga and have never even thought about acually buying one. Mainly because I'm the type of guy who will read a manga once or twice and probably never pick it up again, even if it's one of my faves. I feel no need to have a bookcase full of my favorite manga just to say I bought them. The only reason I would ever buy it would be to share it with some friends who seem interested, which would never happen because most of my friends don't like manga.... __________________ What exactly is the point of becoming powerful if one cannot indulge the hedonistic opportunities that come with it?

2007-01-09, 12:18	Link #37
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	Well good for you Dora! You define yourself as a collector because you have a ton of books (Some of which you don't read). You don't consider yourself a real fan because you don't contribute anything. Well that is in your eyes. In my eyes you are a Real fan because of you a mangaka got to eat a bowl of rice (all 20 cents of it) each time you bought a book. That's the best contribution of them all. If everyone just wrote fan art and no one bought Ken A's books, then there would be no fan art. Get it? It's a required circle. Buy Books = Money in Ken A's Pocket = Food , Electricity = Energy to make more Manga. Read Scans + Make Fan Art + Comment on AnimeSuki + Sell TShirts = Penniless Pissed Off Mangaka at people who steal his art. Going to the Library to read a book doesn't make you a thief. That is true. But going to the library doesn't make you a real fan. It just makes you a fan. Downloading a Scantalation doesn't make you a thief. (Well it does in the author's mind). But saying out loud that you have no intention of ever buying a manga or donating money to Scantalation group (Which I do that too) but you read tons of scantalations and go to the library IS a thief. How can such a person call himself (or herself) a Real Fan. A Real fan can go up to Ken Akamatsu and thank him for writing such a Panty filled manga as Negima then CURSE him for allowing Xebec to F it up! Because they have helped Ken A to make such a wonderful or crappy product. A person who never pays for any manga (Yet has a playstation, Computer, Ipod) is just a thief. __________________ My Favorite Anime Quotes Courtesy of Answerman of ANN: 1) By and Large...they are and **. 2) What kind of girls do Anime Otaku males want? ..................... Female. 3) The odds are good, that the goods are odd. Last edited by Forbin; 2007-01-09 at 13:11.*

2007-01-09, 14:03	Link #39
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	Hehe I'm a bit on a Moral High horse because someone (who I know IRL) told me he's a true (True not real) fan because he goes to AX (he wants to cosplay this year too). I went but all you do is Pirate DVD's and Read Scantalations? How in the Heck are you a true fan? Which he then replied that he is poor college student and can't afford it. Then the conversation turned to his new Playstation 2 he just bought. He showed me a picture of it with his new Sidekick cellphone he bought too. Heh. __________________ My Favorite Anime Quotes Courtesy of Answerman of ANN: 1) By and Large...they are and **. 2) What kind of girls do Anime Otaku males want? ..................... Female. 3) The odds are good, that the goods are odd. Last edited by Forbin; 2007-01-09 at 17:24. Reason: Gah I'm getting old. Can't even remember which Playstation it was*

2007-01-05, 08:09	Link #21
sl^sh3r Unjustified Insanity Join Date: Dec 2006	hey I have a question..... Suppose you live in the US and buy a manga volume released in english by Viz. Say One Piece Volume 1, which costs about $8 (US), how much of that $8 actually finds its way back to the mangaka?

2007-01-08, 15:26	Link #32
traziemykel Chimpira Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Age: 35	Mm.. how bout supporting the mangaka? buy your manga?! collect manga?! read manga 24/7 ^^

2007-01-08, 15:53	Link #33
2H-Dragon Silent Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Netherlands Age: 38	A true fan is just some1 who loves manga. Nothin more, nothin less.

2007-01-08, 22:46	Link #35
traziemykel Chimpira Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Age: 35	lol @ forbin i agree... just reading the manga or downloading it does make u a fan.. but not a true fan.. a true collects it.. supports the mangaka. ^^

2007-01-09, 13:37	Link #38
traziemykel Chimpira Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada Age: 35	LOl @ Forbin.. anywaiz.. a fan is afan.. a true fan is a true fan...

2007-01-10, 02:38	Link #40
HeartNana Member Join Date: Apr 2006	How about this? My favorite series for anime by far is Haruhi Suzumiya. Granted, i'm in Japan right now, but my Japanese isnt strong enough to follow Haruhi. I have absolutely no intention of buying Japanese DVD's at ridiculous prices like 60 USD for 1-2 episodes. Even though its gonna be licensed in America, let's assume it's not going to be. I buy Haruhi CD soundtracks, Haruhi goods that i see at stores here (phone straps, mousepads, t-shirts, sos-dan armbands, keychains, etc) but i refuse to buy the DVD's at outrageous prices, especially when its all in Japanese with no subtitles to help me out. Am i a true fan of the series or am i a thief?