Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Well, I don't know. To me they at least tried to do something of this early on. They hired some relative wimps to help flesh out the numbers in their new unit (all the training scenes including very conventional running scenes), actually had to beg and negotiate for 4 years to set up the darn unit (the way real bureaucracies work). Hayate even runs around negotiating with old superiors and the like to help out, briefs the guys at HQ ... etc. Somewhere along the line, all that was lost and went back to the magical girl thing.

I was thinking all the Hayate development will not so much be in the 3-some as it would be showing her doing her commander's work. Somewhere after say Ep8 that got shafted along w/ her character development.

It all went to hell when Vivio came on the scene...

First five episodes, all more or less introduction, okay I can accept.

The Teana-Nanoha incident... Not my cup of tea, and too darn long, but I accept...

But it was all lost when that little girl came onto the scene.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It all went to hell when Vivio came on the scene...

First five episodes, all more or less introduction, okay I can accept.

The Teana-Nanoha incident... Not my cup of tea, and too darn long, but I accept...

But it was all lost when that little girl came onto the scene.

Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!

Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes.

I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the main plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.

All and all they screwed up had they stop adding in side character and focused on the main cast (Caor, Elio, Subaru, Tea, Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, etc.) this blunder would've never happened.

[arkhangelsk]

Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.

Okay I can agree with you guys on this. Yes had they left the bonding to like 2 episodes we would've had more episodes for both action and plot.

[Aaron008R]

The least they could have done is to give Vivio some strange scenes when alone insted of acting all too moe than what's needed. Vivio showed absolutely ZERO strangeness during her stay in RF6. Fanservice is fine and all, but hey, limits, limits.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!

Well I did 'defend' her 2 episodes ago...

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes.

No no, it's most definately the girl.

She ate the most time...


edit ^ : Okay, maybe not

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.

I don't think it's that heavy of a content

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.

Indeed. The fault lies with them all, too much effort had been spent on them.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Okay I can agree with you guys on this. Yes had they left the bonding to like 2 episodes we would've had more episodes for both action and plot.

Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed...

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

The least they could have done is to give Vivio some strange scenes when alone insted of acting all too moe than what's needed. Vivio showed absolutely ZERO strangeness during her stay in RF6. Fanservice is fine and all, but hey, limits, limits.

Yessss pointlesssss, pointlesssss indeeddd ~....

[/hissing]

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed...



Yessss pointlesssss, pointlesssss indeeddd ~....

[/hissing]

Oh Chaos you and your anti-yuri-ism

Vivio was there at RF:6 HQ for the sake of NxF fan service so her being there was going to happen regardless. They messed up by making it so long. Also I would've like to see Vivio show off some amazing powers as well but alas it was not to be.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed...

I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.

This episode's wasn't too bad, if only it didn't drag on longer than it should and how Hayate and Vita who were like...2 meters away are like total strangers to the friendship bond and talk of NF, and were totally irrelevant to the 'don't push yourself' talk, which even if they don't have Limit Breaks, should be more than okay to be inclusive. The 4 of you are friends FOR 10 FREAKIN YEARS!! WTF BIAS!?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.

Thank You Nightengale. See Chaos I'm not the only who thinks Vivio had a greater proposes then a plot device.

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

This episode's wasn't too bad, if only it didn't drag on longer than it should and how Hayate and Vita who were like...2 meters away are like total strangers to the friendship bond and talk of NF, and were totally irrelevant to the 'don't push yourself' talk, which even if they don't have Limit Breaks, should be more than okay to be inclusive. The 4 of you are friends FOR 10 FREAKIN YEARS!! WTF BIAS!?

Fanservice taken too far. They were completely IGNORED!
WTF! Vita was almost killed in action in ep 17 and Hayate's their LEADER! Not even a second glance...

Well... The other two didn't really say much about good lucks as well...

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Thank You Nightengale. See Chaos I'm not the only who thinks Vivio had a greater proposes then a plot device.

LOL. My point further proves she IS a plot device.

My point was that in my opinion, there was at least ONE decent NxF scene that came out of it, and no, the mama-ones got boring the 2nd time they showed it. And they showed it more than twice.

If they took half the time they spent on the Vivio thing, and churned it out A LITTLE to what we got in the SS02 with the Fate-mama dilemma over Erio/Caro...that would've been much better. Fate, Caro, Erio gets better development, and rather than boring ~moe animated, we get drama animated.

Since well... most NxF scene in StrikerS imo, amounts to ~meh from a technical standpoint. They showed us nothing new in their dimensions of friendship that we don't know, and I thought the incessant amount of time used for NxF could really be used to shine on the trio's friendship trinity instead, which for some reason, despite promotional materials of them 3 being together... they don't really execute them all that well.

Mind you, that while I do not particularly like NxF, I can appreciate what they bring in terms of extra character development and dynamics to the story. The problem is that...they bring nothing new.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

LOL. My point further proves she IS a plot device.

Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Sorry, had to hide, supervisior came in...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Oh Chaos you and your anti-yuri-ism

Nonsense! That's just PURELY coincidental that she's related to NxF ...

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Vivio was there at RF:6 HQ for the sake of NxF fan service so her being there was going to happen regardless. They messed up by making it so long. Also I would've like to see Vivio show off some amazing powers as well but alas it was not to be.

But this way, I have someone to point fingers at

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.

That particular line wasn't suppose to be taken seriously

It won't help my case

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...

Perspective

[Dark Wing]

Well I know I'm not pushing this argument tonight.

Anyway all I know is that since this series is going to end in 6 more Episodes the writers better do something epic to make up for the lack of entertainment.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...

Because while Vivio is truly a Saint for those NFers out there (( she milks out NF scenes )), from a non-NFer standpoint, and even from a technical neutral standpoint, we can rationally (( and irrationally )) judge how her appearance and contribution to needless extra NF-screen time jogged up the pacing and screwed up balancing in terms of character development and appropriate screen time accordingly.

And Chaos, to add to what I told you I think was being said earlier...

65% chance of being WRONG. >_<

It does look like the TSAB High Council are the very sponsors of Jail, and it links to how they're the ones behind Zest and Lutecia. Yes, it means that the terror attack on TSAB Ground Central is very much linked back to TSAB themselves, the high brass at least. Which might explain why Jail held back, since he wasn't meant to commit terror, but it was nothing more than a facade to hide the actual reason behind the apparent attack... the assassination of Regius, since that is clearly what TSAB High Council talked about in regards to Zest's purpose alongside protecting Lutecia. However, the awakening of the Cradle itself along with the kidnapping of the Sei-Oh was all purely Jail's personal acts, and I think Sein was talking about how the sponsors might be mad at them and Jail awakening that toy, to which Jail reassures her there's nothing to be worried about.

TAKE WITH A HUGE GRAIN OF SALT, once again, until thisguy or anyone better than me at moonspeak comes and proves me wrong, or proves me right. Damn brains and their hard to make out moon-speak. >_<

However, Sein wins points for talking about 'sponsors getting mad over Cradle's awakening' like how a father would get angry for a child for stealing a cookie from a jar wwwwwwww.

[FlareKnight]

I'll hold the guns on Vivio, she has had a rough few episodes after all.

I say we can spend a lot of time blaming the writers. They did make some bad choices along the way which we can't fix now. Plus airfare to Japan is just too expensive so we can't go out there and get them....err anyways.

Do feel they went a bit overbaord with all the Vivio time. Nothing against the kid just think with all the characters they could've gone some more things with someone like Hayate. Like a bloody transformation sequence for the hell of it. We got jiped in that regard since the final battle has started and nothing for it. Going to spend an episode getting everyone ready for the battle. Spend 1/4 of it with transformation scenes then .

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!

Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes.

I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the main plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.

All and all they screwed up had they stop adding in side character and focused on the main cast (Caor, Elio, Subaru, Tea, Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, etc.) this blunder would've never happened.

Actually, they could have had everything. The trick is to use half episodes, so we have say 40 half episodes and 6 full length episodes. Any semi-decent director can make most half episodes feel like a full episode using pacing - take out waste time, speed up the exchange ... etc.

There are many advantages to using half episodes. Lots more ground can be covered (so you can have lots of NxFxV while adding Hayate expositions, Caro expositions, investigation, staff planning meetings ... etc). It is also easier - mediocre 20 minute content can be crammed to look good in 10 minutes, and even an awful or just not-my-cup-of-tea 20 minute content might improve to "bearable" by making it only 10 minutes long. Most fights (especially vs drone combat) can still look very good in 10 minutes, because it is the quality and not the quantity of the fight that counts to most, and with a 10 minute fight you are forced to go for quality while saving frames (thus allowing better animation - quality again). Short version: With 10-minute episodes you are forced to be better and yet it is easier to look better at the same time... wonder why they didn't try it.

[Seiryuu]

Now that Alhazred is making a definite reentry into Nanoha plot, I'm wondering...
If I remember right, all that's said of the Lost Logia is that SOME world had developed magic/technology to such a point that some blunder caused the mother of all dimensional distortions, either literally blasting bits of remaining technology to the far ends of infinity or leaving nothing but those artifacts that were elsewhere at the time. Alhazred is described separately as a mythical land where magic was so advanced that it reached the level of divine or miraculous.
Until now I'd thought that most likely Alhazred was at least based on the rumored origin of the Lost Logia. Now that I look back, I can't help but wonder: is there any evidence of this aside from the fact that both issues deal with massive power? After all, one seems to be a well-documented set of artifacts from a known world, whereas the other is a "myth" without any backing evidence. Also, if Alhazred is not the site of origin for at least most of the Lost Logia, might this suggest that Alhazred could be even beyond that?
Part of what made me think of this is the Relics. These seem rather similar to the Jewel Seeds, only stronger, which may mean that the Jewel Seeds were an attempt by an "inferior" civilization to achieve what another had made...

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Actually, you made a lot of mistakes LOL.

There was nothing about the flashback about dead lover or anything. It was the "how Jail got the biological data for Sei-Oh through Due" story.

And Regius and Zest were GOOD FRIENDS, in the past.

And Nanoha asked them to recall and remember every single training they've went through blah blah blah, and how they will not lose to any enemy they face taking everything they've learnt into mind lol.

(( Makes me want to see ALL the Numbers trashing the Forwards. ))

oh sorry about that...watching all these Nanoha RAWs of the new episodes makes you want to catch the Katakana words and try to make out what they're saying and such...sorry about that though.
OH, so that flashback was just a some story about teh Chruch through Due...thats kinda...uh not really useful

Zest and Regius being good friends...so I guess seeing him back alive was like "WTF, I thought you were dead!?"...unless Zest has a story to tell that Regius is a backstabber in battle?...hmmm

Motivation speech by Nanoha. But at the end of this episode, the forwards still looked worried and such.

Thanks for the correction though...I guess my Japanese is still really really rusty...