AnimeSuki Forums

Stretch5920 · 2008-07-13, 05:58

I guess Suzaku forgot about Shirley basically throwing herself off a building earlier that day. That's not suicidal behaviour at all.

Anyway it's completely normal for people to be more angry/emotional about what happens to Kallen than what happens to a bunch of no name people. You are supposed to care about what happens to characters more than nobodies.

Riful · 2008-07-13, 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

Anyway it's completely normal for people to be more angry/emotional about what happens to Kallen than what happens to a bunch of no name people. You are supposed to care about what happens to characters more than nobodies.

Ugh, no you're not. In general (in Bokurano they had a very nice discussion about this) and also in this particular episode: Sunrise wants you to realize that Lulu is doing something wrong. They deliberately showed the black knights doubting their mission and CC in tears - the viewer is supposed to second guess Lulu's actions.

Shinji: You're completely right.

ZeroSama · 2008-07-13, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Yeah its like Suzaku's acts of heroism while trying to kill himself. People had a problem with that. Lelouch is deluding himself now too.

How is he deluding himself? He knows he's doing it for revenge. That why he wanted to be there to:-

A.Have a good gloat at V.V.
B.Hopefully Kill V.V.
C.Be sure the cult is gone.

He may blame them for what happened with Shirely but in kmow way does he think what he's doing is heroic. What needs to be done yes, but not heroic.

Stretch5920 · 2008-07-13, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riful

Ugh, no you're not. In general (in Bokurano they had a very nice discussion about this) and also in this particular episode: Sunrise wants you to realize that Lulu is doing something wrong. They deliberately showed the black knights doubting their mission and CC in tears - the viewer is supposed to second guess Lulu's actions.

Shinji: You're completely right.

you missed my point. People will care about what happens to a character more than a bunch of nobodies. Nowhere did I say that Lelouch/Suzaku is right/wrong.

Aquaman OS · 2008-07-13, 06:09

That's the point. He's thinking he's avenging Shirley when in reality they had nothing to do with it. It was his fault for getting her involved and keeping Rolo around and Rolo's fault for killing her. He's using them as a scapegoat.

Yeah its probably better for the world if they die but that's not what Lelouch is focusing on. He wants them dead because of Shirley. He's deluding himself.

In season 1 Suzaku was pulling off heroic acts like saving Lelouch and saving the hostages which were good things, but Suzaku really only wanted to die.

He's doing a good thing and deluding himself into thinking he's doing it for that reason but deep down, he's doing it for his own selfish behavior.

Meanwhile Suzaku is preparing to drug Kallen, because it's a necessery evil to finding out the truth about Zero so he can make a move on him before he kills anyone else.
Who's the hypocrite now?

Galerian · 2008-07-13, 06:11

Well Lulu crossed the line in this episode. Good thing he didn't bring Todo and Li. They would probably start a mutiny on the spot, even if they knew precisely what was going on in that underground city. His chosen entourage is a good indication that Lulu himself also knows that if word gets out of this massacre, he'll have a true mutiny on his hands.

The black knights have an country of their own now, powerful allies and a well developed military. I wouldn't be suprised at all if they just decided that they don't need Zero anymore after they find out what he has done.

Cornelia: How Bad-ass can you get? Finding a damaged Gekka, thinking 'Hmmm, design is good, but it needs more guns' and equipping it with said guns all by herself in record time. How she managed to lift the weapons etc. is beyond me, but as long as Cornelia is responsible I am totally buying it!

Phantom-Takaya · 2008-07-13, 06:12

I haven't seen the episode yet since I didn't have the time, but from the screenshots I saw... Kallen's hot. More so than before. I guess the whole leaving her out one episode did the trick.

Daniani · 2008-07-13, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riful

Ugh, no you're not. In general (in Bokurano they had a very nice discussion about this) and also in this particular episode: Sunrise wants you to realize that Lulu is doing something wrong. They deliberately showed the black knights doubting their mission and CC in tears - the viewer is supposed to second guess Lulu's actions.

Shinji: You're completely right.

Clearly, Lelouch's crew didn't undertsand why they had to do this. It seems they really didn't undestand why they had to kill women, children, men they didn't even know...

As you said, I guess even C.C. didn't think he will go that far. The plan was to take control of the Cult and use it against V.V., but Lelouch doesn't care anymore about C.C. or even his crew, he acts like a fool who only wants revenge. He will pay for this sooner or later.

ZeroSama · 2008-07-13, 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

That's the point. He's thinking he's avenging Shirley when in reality they had nothing to do with it. It was his fault for getting her involved and keeping Rolo around and Rolo's fault for killing her. He's using them as a scapegoat.

Yeah its probably better for the world if they die but that's not what Lelouch is focusing on. He wants them dead because of Shirley. He's deluding himself.

In season 1 Suzaku was pulling off heroic acts like saving Lelouch and saving the hostages which were good things, but Suzaku really only wanted to die.

He's doing a good thing and deluding himself into thinking he's doing it for that reason but deep down, he's doing it for his own selfish behavior.

Meanwhile Suzaku is preparing to drug Kallen, because it's a necessery evil to finding out the truth about Zero so he can make a move on him before he kills anyone else.
Who's the hypocrite now?

Well Suzaku had a hardon for revenge in Ep 24+25 which caused him to drop his no killing principle and gank the OotBK. He wanted revenge on Zero and if you got in his way tough shit. Lulu is just doing what Suzaku did.

Plus Rolo was sent from the cult and he killed Shirely. In a way it was very indirectly rseponsible. When people lose someone they love they don't think rationally and just want to blame someone. In Lulu's case the cult were the patsies.

Deathkillz · 2008-07-13, 06:15

My, my...

Spoiler:

Aquaman OS · 2008-07-13, 06:16

But thats exactly what Suzaku was doing.

They now have both done good/necessery evil for the greater good, only to satisfy their own selfish desires, atoning for killing father/atoning for getting Shirley killed/vengence.

If Mao were still around he'd have a field day with Lelouch now.

mayaramayana · 2008-07-13, 06:18

Lelouch and Suzaku have same aims. But they go through different ways. Now, probably neither Lulu nor Suzaku are going through the right path.

We don't even know if the right path really exists.....

This episode is really... deep, somehow...

Galerian · 2008-07-13, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Meanwhile Suzaku is preparing to drug Kallen, because it's a necessery evil to finding out the truth about Zero so he can make a move on him before he kills anyone else.
Who's the hypocrite now?

Well at least Suzaku didn't open fire a few episodes back when all the Black Knights dressed up as Zero, because that is what Zero/lulu would have done judging from what he did in this episode.

With regards to ethics, I think it is save to say that Suzaku values innocent lives a lot more than Zero. Sure he is going to drug Kallen, but that just cold. It is not evil. Kallen is a know Black Knight. Sure Suzaku is violating our world's rules on how to treat POW's, but that is about it.

To rival Lulu in this episode he should have threatened to shoot an innocent child he plucked from the streets if Kallen didn't tell him what he wanted to know.

Daniani · 2008-07-13, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Plus Rolo was sent from the cult and he killed Shirely. In a way it was very indirectly rseponsible. When people lose someone they love they don't think rationally and just want to blame someone. In Lulu's case the cult were the patsies.

No one said that isn't true but if someone kills someone who is important to me, I could kill the culprit, but that doesn't mean I will say "the world has to recognize I'm right". If I do something like that, I will be send to prison, I know I will have to pay for what I did. That's even more wrong if I kill the family of the one I hate. That's what Lelouch is doing.

I understand Lelouch, he's acting like a human, but that doesn't mean he was not wrong.

Aquaman OS · 2008-07-13, 06:20

To rival Lelouch he would have had to have gone to kill Lelouch in cold blood anyway without confirming if he was Zero just in case he might be a danger later on.

serenade_beta · 2008-07-13, 06:23

Ahahahaha! Brilliantly done, Lelouch!!

Spoiler for ep14:

Daniani · 2008-07-13, 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Ahahahaha! Brilliantly done, Lelouch!!

Spoiler for ep14:

Did you see how the Cult People reacted??? They didn't seem to have any grudge against CC.. V.V. takes CC place and the Cult people are just pawns who are afraid and used by V.V..

Galerian · 2008-07-13, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

To rival Lelouch he would have had to have gone to kill Lelouch in cold blood anyway without confirming if he was Zero just in case he might be a danger later on.

That would actually make sense to me. Killing him wouldn't even be necessary though. Taking him to the Imperial Capital and throwing him in a well secured jail would have done just fine. It would be completely logical with regards to 'not taking any chances'.

But this is a whole different discussion.

serenade_beta · 2008-07-13, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniani

Did you see how the Cult People reacted??? They didn't seem to have any grudge against CC.. V.V. takes CC place and the Cult people are just pawns who are afraid and used by V.V..

Hmm? Of course, they screamed and regretted they ever came to the place. Or are you talking about how they reacted to C.C.?
Yeah, C.C. seemed close to them and vice-versa...
Mah, the anime doesn't seem to plan to show anything on what they did, so I can't tell whether they were all forced or not. They were there, they did something, wrong place at the right time, deletion, OK. Though even if it isn't OK, they are dead now and I never knew them to care about them, so I'm not exactly going to feel sad over their deaths.

Riful · 2008-07-13, 06:45

Those scientists said to CC "Did you come to save us?". Not sure if they meant save from that attack or save from the order ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Mah, the anime doesn't seem to plan to show anything on what they did, so I can't tell whether they were all forced or not. They were there, they did something, wrong place at the right time, deletion, OK. Though even if it isn't OK, they are dead now and I never knew them to care about them, so I'm not exactly going to feel sad over their deaths.

That's a very very sad thing to say. Really ... you don't have to feel sad, but you shouldn't feel like it doesn't matter at all either. "wrong place wrong time" is simply cruel ...

View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10	216	59.18%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	84	23.01%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	28	7.67%
7 out of 10 : Good	15	4.11%
6 out of 10 : Average	5	1.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	3	0.82%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	0.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	3	0.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful	9	2.47%
Voters: 365. You may not vote on this poll

2008-07-13, 06:15	Link #190
Deathkillz ~ You're dead ^__^* ~ Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: uk, England Age: 34	My, my... Spoiler: Looks like Lulu has lost it for the sake of revenge. Credits to him for being able to put on that fake mask just after Sherily's death to fool Rolo but we all know that he was going for a double KO with VV by using Rolo as a bomb. Strangely though this act of destruction is putting VV in good light to being the victim...I question whether the geass cult are evil by nature or just neutral. The fat guy finally getting killed sure made it seem like he meant well under his dying breath after seeing CC "safe and sound". Another epic episode to the end though __________________ Siggy: hohohohoho~ \| AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ \| Summer2009 early review Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS

2008-07-13, 06:23	Link #196
serenade_beta そのおっぱいで13才 Join Date: Dec 2006	Ahahahaha! Brilliantly done, Lelouch!! Spoiler for ep14: Completely massacre!!!! Yeah, he killed woman, powerless scientists, and children... And? Those scientists experimented on Geass and making "Rolos" and possibly horrible stuff, and those children are goners, complete "Rolos" who don't seem to have much thought on killing people! That is why... I'm happy they're gone now. A bit unfortunate, but there are worth things like death at times... Oh-oh-OH! And best, they get to be killed by their "brother"! I don't forgive Rolo for killing Shirley, but I'll forgive his existence just a bit for killing them off! Bravo bravo bravo, and serves you right, damn scientists. You chose the wrong thing to research! Mmm... Too bad Rolo didn't get a chance to blow up and take V.V. with him... Another day, another day then. It was a very exciting episode, and it just blazed through, even destroying Seigfreid and hurting V.V. very badly... Suzaku... Wow, you really suck. Lelouch this and Lelouch that, and even going to Refrain... Nina and Kanon... Geh... Order of Black Knights... chances of traitors increasing... Tch. Cornelia was pretty cool this episode, and so was Orange. Preview: Finally... the World of C... Shirley... Oh, and RIP Bartley. continues to giggle at the scientists getting blown up Judgment, judgment~ __________________ -Blog --> http://tdnshumi.blogspot.com/ (Mainly about video games) -R.I.P. Hiroshi Yamauchi, Gaming wouldn't have been the same without you (9/19/13)

2008-07-13, 05:58	Link #181
Stretch5920 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007	I guess Suzaku forgot about Shirley basically throwing herself off a building earlier that day. That's not suicidal behaviour at all. Anyway it's completely normal for people to be more angry/emotional about what happens to Kallen than what happens to a bunch of no name people. You are supposed to care about what happens to characters more than nobodies.

2008-07-13, 06:09	Link #185
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	That's the point. He's thinking he's avenging Shirley when in reality they had nothing to do with it. It was his fault for getting her involved and keeping Rolo around and Rolo's fault for killing her. He's using them as a scapegoat. Yeah its probably better for the world if they die but that's not what Lelouch is focusing on. He wants them dead because of Shirley. He's deluding himself. In season 1 Suzaku was pulling off heroic acts like saving Lelouch and saving the hostages which were good things, but Suzaku really only wanted to die. He's doing a good thing and deluding himself into thinking he's doing it for that reason but deep down, he's doing it for his own selfish behavior. Meanwhile Suzaku is preparing to drug Kallen, because it's a necessery evil to finding out the truth about Zero so he can make a move on him before he kills anyone else. Who's the hypocrite now?

2008-07-13, 06:11	Link #186
Galerian Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Well Lulu crossed the line in this episode. Good thing he didn't bring Todo and Li. They would probably start a mutiny on the spot, even if they knew precisely what was going on in that underground city. His chosen entourage is a good indication that Lulu himself also knows that if word gets out of this massacre, he'll have a true mutiny on his hands. The black knights have an country of their own now, powerful allies and a well developed military. I wouldn't be suprised at all if they just decided that they don't need Zero anymore after they find out what he has done. Cornelia: How Bad-ass can you get? Finding a damaged Gekka, thinking 'Hmmm, design is good, but it needs more guns' and equipping it with said guns all by herself in record time. How she managed to lift the weapons etc. is beyond me, but as long as Cornelia is responsible I am totally buying it!

2008-07-13, 06:12	Link #187
Phantom-Takaya INTJ IT Support Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Alaska Age: 41	I haven't seen the episode yet since I didn't have the time, but from the screenshots I saw... Kallen's hot. More so than before. I guess the whole leaving her out one episode did the trick.

2008-07-13, 06:16	Link #191
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	But thats exactly what Suzaku was doing. They now have both done good/necessery evil for the greater good, only to satisfy their own selfish desires, atoning for killing father/atoning for getting Shirley killed/vengence. If Mao were still around he'd have a field day with Lelouch now.

2008-07-13, 06:18	Link #192
mayaramayana A proof is an argument. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: The tissue box.	Lelouch and Suzaku have same aims. But they go through different ways. Now, probably neither Lulu nor Suzaku are going through the right path. We don't even know if the right path really exists..... This episode is really... deep, somehow...

2008-07-13, 06:20	Link #195
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	To rival Lelouch he would have had to have gone to kill Lelouch in cold blood anyway without confirming if he was Zero just in case he might be a danger later on.