(L) Youkoso Jitsuryoku Shijou Shugi no Kyoushitsu e

[Log]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

why the heck was she only placed in class B if this is the case?

According to class B's teacher Ichinose has a not yet disclosed weakness or some shit that prevented her from getting placed in Class A. It's probably a similar reason to why Hirata is stuck in Class D despite being talented.

Originally Posted by Hujan

Yes, we need information the requirement (standard) for class's placement.
Why Ichinose who had abilties on par with Sakayanagi, (even more in Physycal abilities, I think) got in Class B because often absent during middle school, while Horikita who had great abilities too (Intelligence and Physically) got in Class D because lack of Social skill. also, why Class C goons in Class C while Ayanokouji who had Superb abilities (knowing that Director know about him, I bet He also know about his true abilities) in Class D (I know he had weakness and intentionally lower his test scores but still...)

I think Author need to write about that...

I never said Ichiose is on par with Sakayanagi. Arisu is definitely smarter than her just based off hype alone.

Horikita is literally socially retarded at the start of the series and had zero tact or leadership abilities. Furthermore her attitude was shit and she was convinced of her own superiority because she's good at studying. The whole point of the school is to create leaders "elites of society" and someone who didn't believe in socializing wouldn't have made it anywhere.

Ayanokouji would've been a higher class if he actually bothered to try. His teacher outright said that's the case.

Originally Posted by Sixth

Just like how Suzune landed herself in Class D instead of Class C where even a violence and brainless delinquents can get into Class C.

The way the school assigned the students away are extremely flawed and questionable.

Except Class C isn't brainless or delinquents for the most part. In overall abilities Class C are on average higher than Class D if Ayanokouji didn't exist. The fact that they had far higher points than Class D (indicating better behavior and test scores) at the start is indication of that. The idiotic delinquents that Ryuen commended to get beat up by Sudou were literally the lowest of the low for their class (you didn't think Ryuen would tell someone capable to get beaten up did you?) and still probably higher than the average class D student.

You might think I'm exaggerating but keep in mind that legit most of class D are slackers without any real strength who went to the school because they thought it would be a easy time (coughIkecoughYamuchicough) or one trick ponies like Sudou whose great at one thing but terrible at everything else. The character sheets aren't 100% accurate (especially in Ayanokouji's case) and seems like a ballpark estimate but it's telling that people in Class D that aren't Horikita/Hirata/Koenji/Kushida have character sheets that's filled with C-E. Legit everyone in class D should pray to Ayanokouji, Horikita and Hirata everyday for carrying their fatasses so far.

Anyways how the school judges you is pretty clear in my mind. They seem to weigh these things in the following order: good personality >= defects/weaknesses > leadership skills > social skills > academics/athletic ability. Someone like Horikita received full marks on academics/athletic ability which is the least important attribute and received zero on good personality traits, leadership and social skills hence her Class D placement. The delinquents in class C probably received passing marks or close to passing marks on everything hence they scrapped into class C.

Originally Posted by Sixth

Only when Ryueen gave out the instruction to them although they were still able to screwed up big time.

So are you said that the school DOESNT know that these brainless monkeys are delinquents when they assigned these monkeys into class C Or the school always knew that these monkeys are delinquents but still assigned them into class C because they didn't get caught on scene?

And this is the very same school that able to dug out the dark past of most Class D students of what they did during their middle school.

Their past isn't really known (honestly can they really be considered delinquents if it wasn't for Ryuen?) but outside of that one guy that got into fights in middle school the school apparently didn't think that their pasts are that noteworthy in the Sudou case. Also again fucking Sudou, Ike and Yamuchi made it into this school. Sudou who has zero social skills, a terrible personality (especially at the start) and is retarded enough to somehow flunk a exam he was given the answer sheet for. Don't get me started on Ike and Yamuchi who have no real strengths (I guess lulcamping can be considered Ike's strength..... I still don't know why Yamuchi exists) outside of being creeps. Not to mention the majority of the girls in class D aren't any better in terms of capabilities tbh. The point is the school's standard is pretty low especially for the lower classes and Class D is really fucking bad for the most part so it's not that hard to see why Ryuen's flunkies got placed in Class C.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Log

I never said Ichiose is on par with Sakayanagi. Arisu is definitely smarter than her just based off hype alone.

Err... it is not you who said it, but Cinnamon (or at least my interpretation from what Cinnamon said)

Originally Posted by Cinnamon

As for facts about her past, she was often absent during middle school. It's why she was placed in B yet have abilities like Sakayanagi and Katsuragi. She seems to really dislike being called a saint or pure so I think she feels guilty about something.

about this

Originally Posted by Log

Horikita is literally socially retarded at the start of the series and had zero tact or leadership abilities. Furthermore her attitude was shit and she was convinced of her own superiority because she's good at studying. The whole point of the school is to create "leaders" and someone who didn't believe in socializing wouldn't have made it anywhere.

Ayanokouji would've been a higher class if he actually bothered to try. His teacher outright said that's the case.

I dont know if it is the truth from novel or you just assuming from what you read, but IF I assuming it is the truth, creating "leaders" is just a Goal, it is still doesnt change the fact that they dont explain the standard for Class Placement or how people can get accepted in the so called Elite School.

how can three idiot (Ike, Yamauchi, and Sudo) get accepted in the Elite school. like Sae-sensei said, if it is just based on Intelligence, Sudo wont get accepted.
although Sudo have a superior physical abilities, but "Leader" doesnt necessarily need superior physical abilities. more questionable to Ike and Yamauchi which look like lacking a talent. this is Elite school right? how can they get accepted.

the other questionable point is about Three goons from Class C. they accepted to be goons, how can they became a leaders? Horikita not yet can socialize, but at least She is a "Leader" for herself, but the 3 goons, even not leaders for themselves.

[Grey Hat]

Originally Posted by Hujan

how can three idiot (Ike, Yamauchi, and Sudo) get accepted in the Elite school. like Sae-sensei said, if it is just based on Intelligence, Sudo wont get accepted.
although Sudo have a superior physical abilities, but "Leader" doesnt necessarily need superior physical abilities. more questionable to Ike and Yamauchi which look like lacking a talent. this is Elite school right? how can they get accepted.

err.... I just want to clear something Ike did have a talent remember n volume 3? hmm the last arc of the anime he's good at camping remember? I'm sure that's count as a talent

about yamauchi hmm hahaha maybe he's good at calculating girls 3 sizes

[Log]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I dont know if it is the truth from novel or you just assuming from what you read, but IF I assuming it is the truth, creating "leaders" is just a Goal, it is still doesnt change the fact that they dont explain the standard for Class Placement or how people can get accepted in the so called Elite School.

how can three idiot (Ike, Yamauchi, and Sudo) get accepted in the Elite school. like Sae-sensei said, if it is just based on Intelligence, Sudo wont get accepted.
although Sudo have a superior physical abilities, but "Leader" doesnt necessarily need superior physical abilities. more questionable to Ike and Yamauchi which look like lacking a talent. this is Elite school right? how can they get accepted.

the other questionable point is about Three goons from Class C. they accepted to be goons, how can they became a leaders? Horikita not yet can socialize, but at least She is a "Leader" for herself, but the 3 goons, even not leaders for themselves.

"Leader" is the wrong word to use there. I should've used "elites of society" for a more accurate description. I edited my post to be more accurate. Point is they want to create exceptional members of society to send out to the world. Also idk about Ike and Yamuchi too. I guess if they try they're smart so they have some talent and the school saw that potential. For Ryuen's goon, like I said the school judged them negatively but not negative enough to land in Class D. Class C/D are C/D for a reason, they're generally not talented with a few exceptions.

Also you should keep in mind that the point of the lower classes isn't that the school thinks that their actually smart or going to turn into productive members of society. They're mostly their as competition for the higher classes and as a result the school doesn't give them the same benefits if they're in a lower class. Class D's teacher outright said in the first volume that the perks of graduating from their school (go to whatever college they want, guaranteed job, etc.) doesn't apply if you're a lower class student. There's a reason why the school bunches a bunch of defects and idiots together, you either develop together or accept your position in society and give up.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Log

"Leader" is the wrong word to use there. I should've used "elites of society" for a more accurate description. I edited my post to be more accurate. Point is they want to create exceptional members of society to send out to the world. Also idk about Ike and Yamuchi too. I guess if they try they're smart so they have some talent and the school saw that potential. For Ryuen's goon, like I said the school judged them negatively but not negative enough to land in Class D. Class C/D are C/D for a reason, they're generally not talented with a few exceptions.

Also you should keep in mind that the point of the lower classes isn't that the school thinks that their actually smart or going to turn into productive members of society. They're mostly their as competition for the higher classes and as a result the school doesn't give them the same benefits if they're in a lower class. Class D's teacher outright said in the first volume that the perks of graduating from their school (go to whatever college they want, guaranteed job, etc.) doesn't apply if you're a lower class student. There's a reason why the school bunches a bunch of defects and idiots together, you either develop together or accept your position in society and give up.

So Class D are basically plebs, huh? I heard some yakuzas have a limited merits in the society. But now, these days, yakuzas are the dying breeds in Japan.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Grey Hat

err.... I just want to clear something Ike did have a talent remember n volume 3? hmm the last arc of the anime he's good at camping remember? I'm sure that's count as a talent

about yamauchi hmm hahaha maybe he's good at calculating girls 3 sizes

So they got accepted because of That !? Lol

Originally Posted by Log

"Leader" is the wrong word to use there. I should've used "elites of society" for a more accurate description. I edited my post to be more accurate. Point is they want to create exceptional members of society to send out to the world. Also idk about Ike and Yamuchi too. I guess if they try they're smart so they have some talent and the school saw that potential. For Ryuen's goon, like I said the school judged them negatively but not negative enough to land in Class D. Class C/D are C/D for a reason, they're generally not talented with a few exceptions.

Also you should keep in mind that the point of the lower classes isn't that the school thinks that their actually smart or going to turn into productive members of society. They're mostly their as competition for the higher classes and as a result the school doesn't give them the same benefits if they're in a lower class. Class D's teacher outright said in the first volume that the perks of graduating from their school (go to whatever college they want, guaranteed job, etc.) doesn't apply if you're a lower class student. There's a reason why the school bunches a bunch of defects and idiots together, you either develop together or accept your position in society and give up.

about the goons, it is not like I want them to become in Class D, I just use them (as Class C) to compare with Horikita and Ayanokouji which I think they deserve more than Class D, because I think they are better than the goons. (which became one of my point to question what standard they use to accepting student and Class placement)
No offense, but after what you said and all, still doesnt change the fact about my point at all. this quote below is the post that became the start of our discussion

Originally Posted by Hujan

Yes, we need information the requirement (standard) for class's placement.

This is my first premise, need information the requirement (standard) for class's placement plus standard how can people get accepted in that school

Originally Posted by Hujan

Why Ichinose who had abilties on par with Sakayanagi, (even more in Physycal abilities, I think) got in Class B because often absent during middle school, while Horikita who had great abilities too (Intelligence and Physically) got in Class D because lack of Social skill. also, why Class C goons in Class C while Ayanokouji who had Superb abilities (knowing that Director know about him, I bet He also know about his true abilities) in Class D (I know he had weakness and intentionally lower his test scores but still...)

This is the reason (questionable point) why need to answer the premise,

Originally Posted by Hujan

I think Author need to write about that...

and this the conclusion.
in short, this I still question why Horikita and Ayanokouji is below Class C. Ryuuen and Hiyori in Class C. Ichinose in Class B. Sakayanagi in Class A. (despite plus and minus, that they have, but at least they deserve to become in one class).
the only explaination that I can think of now, is that school want to make them compete to each other, so they put them in different class, so every class had a chance. but in the end, that is just my assumption, IF author not explain it, then so be it. it will still become questionable point.

[Log]

Originally Posted by Hujan

about the goons, it is not like I want them to become in Class D, I just use them (as Class C) to compare with Horikita and Ayanokouji which I think they deserve more than Class D, because I think they are better than the goons. (which became one of my point to question what standard they use to accepting student and Class placement)
No offense, but after what you said and all, still doesnt change the fact about my point at all. this quote below is the post that became the start of our discussion

This is my first premise, need information the requirement (standard) for class's placement plus standard how can people get accepted in that school

This is the reason (questionable point) why need to answer the premise,

and this the conclusion.
in short, this I still question why Horikita and Ayanokouji is below Class C. Ryuuen and Hiyori in Class C. Ichinose in Class B. Sakayanagi in Class A. (despite plus and minus, that they have, but at least they deserve to become in one class).
the only explaination that I can think of now, is that school want to make them compete to each other, so they put them in different class, so every class had a chance. but in the end, that is just my assumption, IF author not explain it, then so be it. it will still become questionable point.

I already answered my point of view on this:

Originally Posted by Log

Anyways how the school judges you is pretty clear in my mind. They seem to weigh these things in the following order: good personality >= defects/weaknesses > leadership skills > social skills > academics/athletic ability. Someone like Horikita received full marks on academics/athletic ability which is the least important attribute and received zero on good personality traits, leadership and social skills hence her Class D placement. The delinquents in class C probably received passing marks or close to passing marks on everything hence they scrapped into class C.

Basically to expend on my interpretation, say for example that the school weights personality a total of 50 points, leadership skills a total of 35 points, social skills a total of 25 points, and academic/athletic ability a total of 20 points each, for a complete maximum total of 150. The school is also arbitrarily allowed to deduct points if they notice you have weaknesses/defects. In order to get into the school at all you have to pass the minimal threshold of 20 points. To get to Class C you have to pass 40 points, Class B 80 points and to get to Class A you have to pass 120 points.

So Horikita for instance would earn 20/20 points for academics and 16/20 points for athletics for a total of 36 points. She wouldn't earn any points for personality, social skills (literally zero friends), and leadership which would've prevented her to get to the Class C threshold of 40 points required. Hell she would probably get points deducted due to her anti social nature. Now IDK about Ryuen's goons since they aren't developed characters but it's realistic to say that they can earn 10/20 points on academics, 15/20 points on athletic ability, and 15/25 on social skills which would've put them exactly at 40 points required. They obviously earned nothing for personality and leadership, but just by being social and having friends earned them enough points to get to class C.

This also explains why Sudou got in. He earned the max points for athletic ability which allowed him to barely past the threshold. Ike/Yamuchi likely earned small amounts of points everywhere which also allowed them to barely past the threshold. Ichinose earned close to max points everywhere but got deducted points for having a "weakness/defect" which put her in class B. Arisu aced everything except athletic ability and didn't get deducted any points which got her in class A. Ayanokouji earned 10/20 on both athletic and academics (because he didn't try) and got close to nothing on the rest. I can go on and on but you should get my point.

Now (and I'll bold for emphasis), the point system in my example is completely made up by me and is stated nowhere in the Light Novels. It's just used as example to illustrate my interpretation. I don't want people quoting this post latter as gospel because it's just how I interpret the schools system based on what I read. It is a fact however that the school seems to put extreme emphasize more so on personality and social based traits than athletic/intelligence based traits (which is why Koenji and Horikita fell to class D) and also gives extreme deductions based on perceived weaknesses (which is why Hirata fell to Class D and presumably why Ichinose fell to class B).

Anyways is their school system fair at assessing them? Probably not since it places too much emphasis on personality and social traits and not enough emphasis on pure ability which is why capable people like Horikita, Hiyori, Ryuen etc. got placed in the lower classes. But as you have pointed out the school likely does that on purpose since there would be zero competition if everyone was segregated purely by ability. It would just be the higher classes stomping on the lower classes using innate talent which would destroy the point of the school system. A least with "capable but defective" people in the lower classes, it offers some sort of challenge to the higher classes while also allowing these "capable people" a environment to hone their skills and improve their weaknesses.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Log

Now (and I'll bold for emphasis), the point system in my example is completely made up by me and is stated nowhere in the Light Novels. It's just used as example to illustrate my interpretation. I don't want people quoting this post latter as gospel because it's just how I interpret the schools system based on what I read. It is a fact however that the school seems to put extreme emphasize more so on personality and social based traits than athletic/intelligence based traits (which is why Koenji and Horikita fell to class D) and also gives extreme deductions based on perceived weaknesses (which is why Hirata fell to Class D and presumably why Ichinose fell to class B).

Anyways is their school system fair at assessing them? Probably not since it places too much emphasis on personality and social traits and not enough emphasis on pure ability which is why capable people like Horikita, Hiyori, Ryuen etc. got placed in the lower classes. But as you have pointed out the school likely does that on purpose since there would be zero competition if everyone was segregated purely by ability. It would just be the higher classes stomping on the lower classes using innate talent which would destroy the point of the school system. A least with "capable but defective" people in the lower classes, it offers some sort of challenge to the higher classes while also allowing these "capable people" a environment to hone their skills and improve their weaknesses.

Good interpretation If I must say, still in the end, we need the "god" word.
in the vol 1 (IIRC and based on my interpretation) Horikita had questioning Chabashira-sensei how the school do their evaluation for class's placement, in which Chabashira-sensei answering that the school assessing not just because they are smart, if just based that, how can Sudo, yamauchi and Ike got accepted in the first place. but then, the answer about assessing end with that.
in the first place how the school system works had not fully revealed. so there is a chance about it, got answered.
(if the author doesnt make it sound like "All class A student is better than Class B, C, D student, that's why they got in the Class A. All Class B student is better than Class C and D, that's why they got in the Class B, not C or D, and go on". or at least that's how I interpreted it. in which "better" is based on how the school evaluation goes, and how school evaluating them to class placement is still unknwon).

[Xero8420]

LOL, I look like I'm nobody here.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Log

Except Class C isn't brainless or delinquents for the most part. In overall abilities Class C are on average higher than Class D if Ayanokouji didn't exist. The fact that they had far higher points than Class D (indicating better behavior and test scores) at the start is indication of that. The idiotic delinquents that Ryuen commended to get beat up by Sudou were literally the lowest of the low for their class (you didn't think Ryuen would tell someone capable to get beaten up did you?) and still probably higher than the average class D student.

You might think I'm exaggerating but keep in mind that legit most of class D are slackers without any real strength who went to the school because they thought it would be a easy time (coughIkecoughYamuchicough) or one trick ponies like Sudou whose great at one thing but terrible at everything else. The character sheets aren't 100% accurate (especially in Ayanokouji's case) and seems like a ballpark estimate but it's telling that people in Class D that aren't Horikita/Hirata/Koenji/Kushida have character sheets that's filled with C-E. Legit everyone in class D should pray to Ayanokouji, Horikita and Hirata everyday for carrying their fatasses so far.

Anyways how the school judges you is pretty clear in my mind. They seem to weigh these things in the following order: good personality >= defects/weaknesses > leadership skills > social skills > academics/athletic ability. Someone like Horikita received full marks on academics/athletic ability which is the least important attribute and received zero on good personality traits, leadership and social skills hence her Class D placement. The delinquents in class C probably received passing marks or close to passing marks on everything hence they scrapped into class C.

Originally Posted by Log

Their past isn't really known (honestly can they really be considered delinquents if it wasn't for Ryuen?) but outside of that one guy that got into fights in middle school the school apparently didn't think that their pasts are that noteworthy in the Sudou case. Also again fucking Sudou, Ike and Yamuchi made it into this school. Sudou who has zero social skills, a terrible personality (especially at the start) and is retarded enough to somehow flunk a exam he was given the answer sheet for. Don't get me started on Ike and Yamuchi who have no real strengths (I guess lulcamping can be considered Ike's strength..... I still don't know why Yamuchi exists) outside of being creeps. Not to mention the majority of the girls in class D aren't any better in terms of capabilities tbh. The point is the school's standard is pretty low especially for the lower classes and Class D is really fucking bad for the most part so it's not that hard to see why Ryuen's flunkies got placed in Class C.

Why are you comparing Class C and Class D as whole when I am talking about an individual's ability here? Just because Class C as whole is doing well DOESN'T UNDERMINE Suzune's ability here. I am actually surprised that you are genuinely think that 3 monkeys are actually BETTER than Suzune as a person or contributor to the society. You were right that not all Class C students are brainless delinquent but it doesn't change the fact that 3 brainless monkey delinquents somewhat made into Class C despite that they were inferior in every aspects.

Speaking of social skill, leadership and good personality, in what world that those 3 monkeys have good personality, leadership and good social skills? Sure that Suzune doesn't have admirable personality, but she doesn't go around and punch people like other 3 monkeys did. She was trying to stay out of trouble. Suzune may be an anti-social, but she is also a self-dependant and well-disciplined person. Despite that almost everyone in Class D were slacking during the class lecture, she was actually paying attention and taking note in the class lecture on her own will. That attitude alone should have warrant her a seat in Class C.

In my opinion, she may not be the best student in the whole school but she is certainly not the worst student that deserved to plunged into the worst class.

Originally Posted by Hujan

Lol. So true, so maybe Alice got into Class A because of Director/Father Power !?
I mean, Ichinose got into Class B, Horikita in Class D, Ayanokouji in Class D, and Sudou got accepted because his Physical abilities. by that logic isnt Alice should not in Class A because her lack phisical abilities?

it will be easier IF it is like Baka to Test, where class placement based on test score, but this Elite school is so confusing, what standard they use to put who in what Class.

It would be much better if all classes were distribute equally from the beginning instead of slapping all elite in one class and expect other classes that have dumb students and psychopath like Kushida to take over the elite class.

[Cinnamon]

Originally Posted by Sixth

In my opinion, she may not be the best student in the whole school but she is certainly not the worst student that deserved to plunged into the worst class.

The anime made her a lot more sociable and easier to like than her LN counterpart. Before the end of volume 5, her behaviour makes me really think Manabu had a point in thinking his little sister was worthless. We as readers, knew that she had lots of problems.

What those delinquents have is the ability to cooperate together as a team. Horikita lacked any team morale and often insulted people to the point that they left the team, that is if she wasn't sick and stayed in the background.

Horikita lacked any social skills, were ice-cold to anyone, insulted others, didn't think she needed to improve, took only responsibility for herself, refused to adapt to other people's pace, thought only she is right etc. Her pride made her think she was better than anyone else in D and took it as an insult that she was not in A, refusing to think she lacked qualities fit for class A. If not for Ayanokouji and Ryuuen, she would have stayed that way for a long time.

In academics and intellect, she is among the very top of the school but she isn't exactly someone who fits the purpose of leading other people. She is stubborn, even though she realised some of her weaknesses in V3, she still acts that way until the very end of V5, refusing to work together with her partners in the athletic festival blaming them instead of herself.

Whether she is likeable is another thing. As a reader, it's funny reading about her and her antics, her struggle feels real and her development is also very good. But don't say that she didn't deserve her place in D-class. She is now a well-respected leader and the face of class D and even Manabu, the monster, is acknowledging this. Had she started school at this point, she would no doubt be in A-class.

EDIT: If there is something everyone in D-class lacks, it's the ability to take responsibility for their actions as a class and not only for themselves. See Sudou, Ike, Yamauchi, Hirata, Horikita, Kushida, Sakura, Hasebe, Miyake, Ayanokouji, Yukimura, Sotomura, Karuizawa. Every single one of them lacked the ability to take the lead in class by their own will, nobody had the power to correct their classmates etc.
When we see the C-class, B-class, A-class, they all have people taking responsibility for their class as a whole and not only for themselves. D-class seems to consist of people only thinking for themselves at the start. It has changed now however, and I see them overtake C-class sooner or later.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon

In academics and intellect, she is among the very top of the school but she isn't exactly someone who fits the purpose of leading other people. She is stubborn, even though she realised some of her weaknesses in V3, she still acts that way until the very end of V5, refusing to work together with her partners in the athletic festival blaming them instead of herself.
.

There is no deny that she will be a horrible leader but why would the school wants everyone to be the leader material? Suzune may not be a good leader but there must be be a role or something out there that will be suitable for Suzune's personality. Instead of keep shoving "leadership" into Suzune's throat the school should have trying to focus on what Suzune or other students that they were good at it.

[wuhugm]

^She is not good subordinate either

[Cinnamon]

Originally Posted by Sixth

There is no deny that she will be a horrible leader but why would the school wants everyone to be the leader material? Suzune may not be a good leader but there must be be a role or something out there that will be suitable for Suzune's personality. Instead of keep shoving "leadership" into Suzune's throat the school should have trying to focus on what Suzune or other students that they were good at it.

You said delinquents are willingly to cooperate as team but it doesn't matter if they can't get the job done when it is matters..

That will have worked if not for the fact that she herself wants the leader role, being influenced by her brother. She also wanted to join the student council like him, being extremely curious when Ichinose talked about her joining it. If so, her goal requires qualities she lacked at that point.

The delinquents managed to put pressure on the D-class, make Sudou go berserk, make class morale of D-class collapse, put Horikita in an unfavorable position in defending Sudou at the hearing. They would have succeeded if not for Ayanokouji and Ichinose.

EDIT: Also, following orders is not always bad. In real life, the most common theme in a job is to follow orders from people above you or make other follow your orders. Very few jobs requires no contact with other people.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^She is not good subordinate either

Based from what I have seen in my life, she will be a very good boss and ruthless one.

Originally Posted by Cinnamon

That will have worked if not for the fact that she herself wants the leader role, being influenced by her brother. She also wanted to join the student council like him, being extremely curious when Ichinose talked about her joining it. If so, her goal requires qualities she lacked at that point.

The delinquents managed to put pressure on the D-class, make Sudou go berserk, make class morale of D-class collapse, put Horikita in an unfavorable position in defending Sudou at the hearing. They would have succeeded if not for Ayanokouji and Ichinose.

EDIT: Also, following orders is not always bad. In real life, the most common theme in a job is to follow orders from people above you or make other follow your orders. Very few jobs requires no contact with other people.

To be fair, Suzune wasn't fight against those delinquents but Ryueen himself from the shadow, of course she will lose.

and I am surprised that she want to be the leader knowing her own flaw? She is making her life harder...and may God bless her.

[Cinnamon]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Based from what I have seen in my life, she will be a very good boss and ruthless one.

Sadly, I have seen leaders in RL who never think they are wrong, never praise people to raise morale, expecting total loyalty, yet showing nothing to make their subordinates actually wanting to follow their lead. Most tend to go down in the end, not before abandoning the ship however.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon

Sadly, I have seen leaders in RL who never think they are wrong, never praise people to raise morale, expecting total loyalty, yet showing nothing to make their subordinates actually wanting to follow their lead. Most tend to go down in the end, not before abandoning the ship however.

It works wonder on China man company.

[Log]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Why are you comparing Class C and Class D as whole when I am talking about an individual's ability here? Just because Class C as whole is doing well DOESN'T UNDERMINE Suzune's ability here. I am actually surprised that you are genuinely think that 3 monkeys are actually BETTER than Suzune as a person or contributor to the society. You were right that not all Class C students are brainless delinquent but it doesn't change the fact that 3 brainless monkey delinquents somewhat made into Class C despite that they were inferior in every aspects.

I never said that they would contribute more to society. Obviously Horikita is a lot more talented so she should contribute more but that is only one factor for the schools grading. I already gave why the school placed them higher which is entirely due to the school placing more emphasis on social skills which Horikita sucks on.

I know that you don't think that's a fair assessment and I agree with you. But like I said in another post, that's the school's way of "equalizing" talent in the different classes otherwise the classes would be completely fucked up and their system becomes pointless.

Speaking of social skill, leadership and good personality, in what world that those 3 monkeys have good personality, leadership and good social skills? Sure that Suzune doesn't have admirable personality, but she doesn't go around and punch people like other 3 monkeys did. She was trying to stay out of trouble. Suzune may be an anti-social, but she is also a self-dependant and well-disciplined person. Despite that almost everyone in Class D were slacking during the class lecture, she was actually paying attention and taking note in the class lecture on her own will. That attitude alone should have warrant her a seat in Class C.

Socially is obvious superior. At the very least they're friends with each other and presumably have other friends so that automatically gets them a higher grade than Horikita in that aspect. Leadership is whatever, both start of series Horikita and Ryuen's lackeys suck in that aspect. Personality is dependent on what you think is worse, a stubborn arrogant bitch or cowardly flunkies and I didn't grade either of them highly.

Edit: Also they never go around and punch people. The whole reason why the school favored them over Sudou was because they were for the most part respectful students where as Sudou was Sudou.

In my opinion, she may not be the best student in the whole school but she is certainly not the worst student that deserved to plunged into the worst class.

IDK man. Most people would agree that extreme arrogance, being unlikable, imposible to work with, egoistic, and stubbornness are traits that society would look down upon. Also if we're talking about people who don't deserve to be put into the worst class, Hirata has a bigger gripe than her in terms of his class placements. He's basically only marginally worse than Horikita in intelligence while being a shitton more useful than her in practical situations but he got shafted to class D because of past trauma. Hell going by your logic even Kushida has a argument for getting placed in a higher class.

Originally Posted by Sixth

There is no deny that she will be a horrible leader but why would the school wants everyone to be the leader material? Suzune may not be a good leader but there must be be a role or something out there that will be suitable for Suzune's personality. Instead of keep shoving "leadership" into Suzune's throat the school should have trying to focus on what Suzune or other students that they were good at it.

You said delinquents are willingly to cooperate as team but it doesn't matter if they can't get the job done when it is matters..

No one is asking Horikita to be a leader but she rejects the concept of "socializing" and "teamwork" which the school views as unacceptable.

Also the delinquents carried their orders out effectively until they met Ayanokouji. Can't really fault them for that.

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Based from what I have seen in my life, she will be a very good boss and ruthless one.

But you previously said that she's not a good leader

Anyway, she's not Newton level genius, there's nothing she can do alone
Her placement in lowest class is correct

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But you previously said that she's not a good leader

Anyway, she's not Newton level genius, there's nothing she can do alone
Her placement in lowest class is correct

Pretty sure that Boss is not same as leader. Leader inspired. Boss commands.

Yes, there is something she can do alone. Get high score in the exam.

Originally Posted by Log

IDK man. Most people would agree that extreme arrogance, being unlikable, imposible to work with, egoistic, and stubbornness are traits that society would look down upon. Also if we're talking about people who don't deserve to be put into the worst class, Hirata has a bigger gripe than her in terms of his class placements. He's basically only marginally worse than Horikita in intelligence while being a shitton more useful than her in practical situations but he got shafted to class D because of past trauma. Hell going by your logic even Kushida has a argument for getting placed in a higher class.

Yup. I do think that Hirata and Suzune do not deserved to put in Class D. As for Kushida, she is a crazy psychopath, and she is deserved in Class D. As for the extreme arrogance, unlikable, egoistic statement, it doesn't stop Ryueen for getting into Class C either.

Originally Posted by Log

I never said that they would contribute more to society. Obviously Horikita is a lot more talented so she should contribute more but that is only one factor for the schools grading. I already gave why the school placed them higher which is entirely due to the school placing more emphasis on social skills which Horikita sucks on.

I know that you don't think that's a fair assessment and I agree with you. But like I said in another post, that's the school's way of "equalizing" talent in the different classes otherwise the classes would be completely fucked up and their system becomes pointless.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Log

No one is asking Horikita to be a leader but she rejects the concept of "socializing" and "teamwork" which the school views as unacceptable.

Also the delinquents carried their orders out effectively until they met Ayanokouji. Can't really fault them for that.

Now I am really confused with the school objective. They want to create a leader quality or a bunch of drone?