To Aru Majutsu no Index - Character Discussion - Kamijo Touma

[Kenju of the Right]

Originally Posted by Birdway

And I still want a friggin answer about why Touma not taking out his damn phone and asking Index about some magical intel regarding Saronia's power, that would have made that volume less boring(to me it was the most boring NT volumen so far) I only liked their meet with Cendrillon, the shooter nigga and the epilogue the rest was meh.

Was Toma being overprotective of Index, selfish or plot induced stupidity?

yeah i think everyone can agree that it was the weakest of NT
i think it was either him being protective over Index or him being stupid
based on his personality and the fact that his brain gets moving when he's in danger, i'd say its him being overprotective

I got to ask you guys-

Out of all the heroic type characters, what would you say separates Kamijou from the others?

Out of all the Anti-hero type characters, what would you say separates Accelerator from the others?

And finally, out of all the every-man-hero type characters, what would you say separates Hamazura from the others?

Because honestly, I think this has always been the case of not "Which Characters I like" but rather "Which archtype do I like".

I don't know about the others but I migght not be much of a fan of Kamijou if he was a superpowered guy that keeps getting stronger and didn't talk from the stand point that he does (along with other things)

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by kazzuya13

Most MC from other series tend to be slow in character development and most of the time the side character tend to have a much faster character development.

the problem with his character development is. its there but its barely noticeable because of his more noticeable traits and personality. And its slow.... it take that LONG for it to be notice or more noticeable.

Hamazura and Accelerator's is easy to notice.

Kamijou's change from pre-memory lost and memory lost is easy to notice but in the end. After that. Its barely a change at all.

And I really don't care if he gets a power up. HECK I WOULD LOVE IF HE STAY THE WEAKEST!!!!

that's his charm. I only want a change of pace or at least an attitude. Specially on what he suffers.

No man should stay sane from what he experience but kamachi just say he will stay the same!? bullsh*T

I will refrain my judgment for now but still that comment of Kamachi gets on my nerves. I hope he indeed change for the better or at least a more mature one.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

No man should stay sane from what he experience but kamachi just say he will stay the same!? bullsh*T

I will refrain my judgment for now but still that comment of Kamachi gets on my nerves. I hope he indeed change for the better or at least a more mature one.

Kamachi only said that his method of speaking, or "speech-style" remains the same.

I've brought this up before already.

TWICE.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Kamachi only said that his method of speaking, or "speech-style" remains the same.

I've brought this up before already.

TWICE.

No one's going to take notice of these words or bother to interpret them correctly. Touma Hate is strong in those ones.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Kamachi only said that his method of speaking, or "speech-style" remains the same.

I've brought this up before already.

TWICE.

No Chaos, not just thame, I think everyone knows and feels Touma will act/behave as usual once the problem ends and then restart the cycle.

Originally Posted by R.LocK

No one's going to take notice of these words or bother to interpret them correctly. Touma Hate is strong in those ones.

There is no hate sofar in this thread.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Birdway

No Chaos, not just thame, I think everyone knows and feels Touma will act/behave as usual once the problem ends and then restart the cycle.

That's not the issue here.

The issue is making up what the Kamachi said and then getting all mad over it.

If Kamijou is the same in NT10 then by all means ragequit, but that was certainly not what Kamachi had said in his Afterwords that js06 translated.

[LevelSeven]

Don't worry Kenju, Toma won't change, ever.

lets wait until NT10 is out, until now we saw him placing his dream over that of others, after NT10 we will see how much this volume affected him......
personally i hope he is more mature... like thinking twice or fife times before clenching his fist and running into adventures....

the problem with his character development is. its there but its barely noticeable because of his more noticeable traits and personality. And its slow.... it take that LONG for it to be notice or more noticeable.

i agree, until this one it was so small that it didnt changed anything (plot-wise)....

And I really don't care if he gets a power up. HECK I WOULD LOVE IF HE STAY THE WEAKEST!!!!

no, i would like him becoming stronger, maybe only a bit but he (until now )gained perception, which is convenient but not really useful, like wearing a mask and thick clothes and his ability is sealed...

No man should stay sane from what he experience but kamachi just say he will stay the same!? bullsh*T

agree with the 'staying same'-stuff, but we should wait until the next volume is out before judging

Kamachi gets on my nerves

agree to 100% but not only because of this sentence, he does this since a year or so....

Kamachi only said that his method of speaking, or "speech-style" remains the same.

I've brought this up before already.

TWICE.

do your mean that touma will do this speech-stuff again or that the way kamachi writes the storys will stay the same??

[Chaos2Frozen]

I mean Kamijou would talk the same way he has always been talking.

Did nobody read the afterwords? Damnit Baka-tsuki is down...

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That's not the issue here.

The issue is making up what the Kamachi said and then getting all mad over it.

If Kamijou is the same in NT10 then by all means ragequit, but that was certainly not what Kamachi had said in his Afterwords that js06 translated.

[/QUOTE]
After NT10 or once the problem ends and Touma returns to his "normal" life.

And that isn't a big deal and you know it, Touma remaining the same isn't the problem.

The "problem" is that it would be a pain to some seeing Touma behave as usual with his antics, fuko da, harem, etc when the experience he went trough on this last volume usually would make any character that went trough that a lot more mature.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I mean Kamijou would talk the same way he has always been talking.

Did nobody read the afterwords? Damnit Baka-tsuki is down...

Will he act/behave the same? Talking is something people would care little or just won't care at all.

Btw, I read the white day side story and...

Holy shit, the part where Index talks with Touma... Did he pull a Natsuru on her, didn't he!?!?! .

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Birdway

After NT10 or once the problem ends and Touma returns to his "normal" life.

And that isn't a big deal and you know it, Touma remaining the same isn't the problem.

The "problem" is that it would be a pain to some seeing Touma behave as usual with his antics, fuko da, harem, etc when the experience he went trough on this last volume usually would make any character that went trough that a lot more mature.

You're not listening- Read tsunade's post again:

No man should stay sane from what he experience but kamachi just say he will stay the same!? bullsh*T

Please show me where Kamachi said that.

[Birdway]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You're not listening- Read tsunade's post again:

Please show me where Kamachi said that.

Uh? I thought you were talking about me.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Uh? I thought you were talking about me.

Why would I be talking about you?

EDIT:

After repeating the loop for thousands or even tens of thousands of times, Kamijou has quickly reached the position of a martial arts master in a kung fu movie or an ancient little girl that speaks like an old woman. But I figure Kamijou’s personality and manner of speech would stay the same even as an old man, so I had him make it through the entire thing with no real change there. Of course, if he was an old man and still acted so energetically, that might give him the position of a martial arts master in its own way.

This was referring to the endless loop scenes.

He would continue to speak in the same manner as he usually does and behave the same as he usually would even as an old man. That was what he's talking about.

[Birdway]

^
Cuz you didn't quote him?

He would continue to speak in the same manner as he usually does and behave the same as he usually would even as an old man. That was what he's talking about.

Btw, with the loops any character would change Homura, Okarin, Rika... but I guess Touma is an exception. Whatever, I don't expect Touma to become as mature as Rikka who behaved as a kid but had a different psyque/mindset after all the shit she went trough or as "normal" like Acqua .

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I got to ask you guys-

Out of all the heroic type characters, what would you say separates Kamijou from the others?

Out of all the Anti-hero type characters, what would you say separates Accelerator from the others?

And finally, out of all the every-man-hero type characters, what would you say separates Hamazura from the others?

Because honestly, I think this has always been the case of not "Which Characters I like" but rather "Which archtype do I like".

I agree with you. Especially since Accelerator is the first Anti-hero character I loved except maybe Bartimaeus from the Bartimaeus Trilogy, this is possible.

Kamijou is completely different from most heroic characters. Anyone who calls him generic doesn't read his character at all.

1. Touma doesn't want to let anyone die no matter what. That's a pretty unique character viewpoint because this extends to villains. It's unique because of the other aspects that are true about him at the same time:

2. Touma is the most unlucky person ever except maybe Hayate. Maybe they're about even... well... it's a hard one. This characteristic makes him really interesting because all of his wins are by his own skill, not by luck, they're "hard luck" as Tsuchimikado said to Aleister.

3. Going along with 1 &2, Touma never turns his back on other people that he sees suffering. He seems to always consider himself responsible to help other people even if he just met them. This is already pretty interesting in itself. What's been more interesting though is that even though he's pragmatic, he's very idealistic. That's unusual. He doesn't hesitate to go into the deepest darkness if he doesn't have something else important to do and that's why some people said he's better than Hamazura (after NT 7). He isn't afraid of running towards gun-fire.

4. His modesty is literally ridiculous. He still calls himself a normal high-school student. And that coupled with his strange psychology, Birdway thinks he is a lunatic, makes him interesting. I'm pretty sure that Touma's personality is the reason he has the Imagine Breaker, and that connection with actually having the Imagine Breaker makes him interesting.

5. Imagine Breaker makes him weak and strong at the same time. Regular people might be able to beat him, but strong people cannot. It's an interesting dynamic. Also, Imagine Breaker's unique and special properties make him an interesting character. Then there has been this recent dynamic that Touma might be useless except for his right hand. That's been interesting to see.

6. Once he actually starts being aware of other heroes which really only happens after NT 7 (so saying something before then about him not being that way doesn't actually hold relevance) he becomes more interesting as a main character.

7. The most brilliant aspect of Touma except for his Imagine Breaker and his "ideology of saving other people" is definitely his memory loss/Index's memory loss. That was probably the best aspect of his character that makes him an interesting hero character. Without the memory loss, a lot of parts of the series wouldn't have been nearly as good.

Hamazura:

I like Hamazura a lot, and I like how much he changes from the first time we saw him to how he is now. He is always really funny in his interactions with ITEM, and basically his interactions with ITEM and the other main heroes were what made me like him. Later on, I'd say that his weaker responsibility for why he turned out the way he did made me like him more.

Hamazura changes a lot and really tries hard even when he has no powers. It's just interesting to see. It's very hard to make an every-day-hero character actually work and he's probably the first one that I've seen work and it's why I like him so much, because he's that sort of character in this sort of ridiculous series.

Accelerator:

He's probably the other most unique character I've seen. I definitely have no room to discuss him here because every single reason he's amazing is a fairly late spoiler, and so I don't really want to say it here. That's the problem with him. He's the best character Kamachi has created in terms of complexity because of how much your opinion of him changes over the series and because of how much the depth of his actions actually hold.

I like Touma more just because of the archetype, but I really don't want to choose between my three bros.

Similarly, Mikoto is my #4 basically because she is a character written by Kamachi that has a lot of appearances, so of course she's going to be amazing. In my opinion, everyone here that doesn't like her only does so because of her fanbase or because she appears too much in-series contrary to what Kamachi perhaps originally wanted. Regardless, I still don't think that should affect how her character is viewed and even if she tends to overshadow some other characters in the series, she's one of the deepest characters I have seen. Though I don't think she's nearly as deep as Accelerator because of the lack of ridiculous things she has had to go through since the sisters arc. Maybe she'll change after the results of NT 8...

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Birdway

^
Cuz you didn't quote him?

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...59#post5045259

Originally Posted by Birdway

Btw, with the loops any character would change Homura, Okarin, Rika... but I guess Touma is an exception. Whatever, I don't expect Touma to become as mature as Rikka who behaved as a kid but had a different psyque/mindset after all the shit she went trough or as "normal" like Acqua .

We'll see if there's any long term effects, but the immediate short term is that his mannerism is still the same.

In fact I'm not entirely sure what difference in mannerism do you expect him to change.

[Birdway]

I don't expect anything.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Please show me where Kamachi said that.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

This was referring to the endless loop scenes.

He would continue to speak in the same manner as he usually does and behave the same as he usually would even as an old man. That was what he's talking about.

-_- you already pointed it out that mannerism wise and probably personality wise and fan service wise it will probably be the same -_-

though there will probably some scene where an old man visage will appear but generally. He will still be the same -_-

and you know Kamachi so let's not pretend that there will be a change at all.

I also don't also expect change because of the author but saying that he will still stay the same just irks me.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

-_- you already pointed it out that mannerism wise and probably personality wise and fan service wise it will probably be the same -_-

though there will probably some scene where an old man visage will appear but generally. He will still be the same -_-

and you know Kamachi so let's not pretend that there will be a change at all.

I also don't also expect change because of the author but saying that he will still stay the same just irks me.

You seem to be missing the point- If it's just his words then let me ask you, were you pissed that in the final fight with Othinus he was still the same? Were you expecting him to have a sudden change in mannerism after dying over and over again, or were you going "Holy shit 0_0 !" like the rest of us when he continued from where he left off every single time?

Because once again, Kamachi was talking about that scene ONLY.

If you hated it and thought it was trash then fine, but if you liked that scene like the rest of us, why would Kamachi's words about only that scene piss you off?

Again, don't misdirect by talking about what might or might not happen in the next volume because that's not the point here.

EDIT:

And you know what the funny thing is? Both Accelerator and Hamazura don't really change much in any obvious mannerism after their character development either. Accelerator is still Accelerator, Hamazura still behaves like Hamazura. The only difference is that they now have that experience of the event under their belt.

Well I suppose Accelerator curse less now.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

-_- you already pointed it out that mannerism wise and probably personality wise and fan service wise it will probably be the same -_-

though there will probably some scene where an old man visage will appear but generally. He will still be the same -_-

and you know Kamachi so let's not pretend that there will be a change at all.

I also don't also expect change because of the author but saying that he will still stay the same just irks me.

IMO the story could go either way until NT10 is released.

Sure, Kamachi most certainly has been restoring the status quo after each novel (more or less). After doing it for 10 years its hard to think he would change that now.

Then again, I'd argue that status quo is exactly what Kamijou Touma was trying to protect up until now; its almost symbolic. The entire Gremlin saga has just been an attack on Kamijou Touma's character (a battle he ended up losing in NT9). There were hints of a dissonance between Kamijou's outer actions and inner character as far back as Volume 19 (where it was openly stated by Aiwass). In NT9, he flat out states that he can't go back (return the status quo) anymore. This is probably the most significant departure from a status quo since the WW3 arc. It was probably the entire point of NT9. That's got to mean something with as much worth as 10 years of restoring the status quo.

Also as Chaos2Frozen has already stated, the not changing part was, strictly speaking, only for the endless loops 'negotiation' with Othinus. Something that makes some sense, as Kamijou brain cut and pasted the endless loops and arranged them into one single unbreaking playthrough (one he didn't realise immediately). The only thing that doesn't make sense is how Kamijou's brain managed to do that. Though a simple answer to that is plot armour, it was still one of the most awesome scenes in the entire franchise.

[demino_hellsin]

Is it just me or are all instances of Kamijou's precognition defensive in nature?