Character Discussion - Lelouch

[Nogitsune]

I agree that Lelouch made himself out to be a monster, but - at least in my eyes - he never actually was one.
There's a difference.

[Rising Dragon]

More likely Jeremiah used his Geass on them to release them from Lelouch's Geass--Geass effects last after death, as seen with Anya.

[Aquaman OS]

Yeah but Geass will go away if its no longer physically possible to perform your command. And you can't be a slave to a dead man.

[bladeofdarkness]

so having hundreds of people who know about geass suddenly is a good thing that would insure that ZERO-R doesnt get into any more risk
and they still would have to answer why they helped a monster like lelouch (as intended)
"i was just following orders" doesnt get you much sympathy

[ZingFreelancer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

More likely Jeremiah used his Geass on them to release them from Lelouch's Geass--Geass effects last after death, as seen with Anya.

Interesting, more enlightenment on this subject please?

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

so having hundreds of people who know about geass suddenly is a good thing that would insure that ZERO-R doesnt get into any more risk
and they still would have to answer why they helped a monster like lelouch (as intended)
"i was just following orders" doesnt get you much sympathy

Hu?
How about "I was under the influence of his Geass".
Much better. o.o

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Hu?
How about "I was under the influence of his Geass".
Much better. o.o

geass being ... what exactly
the world doesnt know about it
and even diethard was smart enough to know not to try explain it (you'd look like a crazy person)
saying the they are forgiven becouse of the geass doesnt help anyone (just makes you seem crazy)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

geass being ... what exactly
the world doesnt know about it
and even diethard was smart enough to know not to try explain it (you'd look like a crazy person)
saying the they are forgiven becouse of the geass doesnt help anyone (just makes you seem crazy)

After all that happened, I think people might not have a hard time to believe the fact that the "demon king" had some kind of supernatural power.
At least if it's Zero who tells them about it.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

After all that happened, I think people might not have a hard time to believe the fact that the "demon king" had some kind of supernatural power.
At least if it's Zero who tells them about it.

he wouldnt
it just makes no sense unless you see it for your self
the soldiers were probably hunted down or driven off
not freed by anyone

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he wouldnt
it just makes no sense unless you see it for your self
the soldiers were probably hunted down or driven off
not freed by anyone

Again, a matter of personal opinions. o.o

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by ZingFreelancer

Interesting, more enlightenment on this subject please?

Two examples with Anya: Charles' Geass effect, the rewriting of Anya's memories, persisted several episodes after Charles and Marianne vanished in the World of C. It persisted until Jeremiah used his Geass Canceler on her. Also, Marianne's Geass effect, the transfer of Marianne's mind, persisted long, long after Marianne's physical death, and only stopped when Marianne's mind was transferred from Anya through the Twilight Door into the World of C.

Example with Suzaku: his "Live on!" Geass command persists long after Lelouch had been killed by Suzaku.

Example with Schneizel: his "Serve Zero" Geass command persists long after Lelouch had been killed by Suzaku.

Geass effects last until the command (if applicable) has been carried out, or until the Geass Canceler obliterates the Geass effect. Just how Geasses can persist after the Code-bearer dies (as seen with Bismarck and Rolo), Geass commands persist after the Geass-user dies.

[Nogitsune]

But as long as Lelouch doesn't return, I'm not sure it would matter.
After all, Suzaku only had to "live" whenever he was in mortal danger - not the whole time.

[Goldarmy]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The condescending advice, not so much.

I didn't meant to be condescending and I am not a Grammar Nazi but the word infantely just stood out. Feel free to point out my mistakes.

I never claimed it was impossible, but that it takes extraordinary circumstance.

Lelouche wasn't exactly an average ordinary person and neither Lelandra Lamperouge (Female Lelouche) would be. We are talking about a princess who happens to be hiding in Japan that has a huge hate of Britannia meets her best friend from childhood, and releases a mysterious woman who is willing to give her superpowers, which is just what she needs to launch her scheme to destroy Britannia. And she will do it in a Haloween suit.

Also take into account that this analysis is based on the assumption that there are differences in the cognitive processes of males and females; that these differences have both an evolutionary and cultural basis; and that these differences are regular and generalized.

No. Your analysis is based on the assumptions that male and female cogintive processes are completely different; and all members of a gender are homogeneous. At least that is how it looks to me. Please remember that I am not a social sciences professor.

Do you believe a female Luluko could misread Nunally's "I wish for a kind world" to "I will destroy and recreate the world, paving the way with blood and tears, even of my family" with such obliviousness that Nunally's rejection of Zero's methods would send her into a depressive, 'I want to refrain myself' state? Remember, this represents an absolute failure in interpersonal awareness, not empathy.

Yes I do. Lelandra could easily delude herself that her selfish actions are for the kind world Nunnaly wants. Because females can use excuses to justify their selfish actions just like males. In fact we see evidence of this in Geass with Marianne who thought that crippling her daughter, dumping both children into a place that will become a warzone and initiating Instrumentality was all for the goodness of her children. And she is the mother of Lelandra.

Environmentally, Lelouch/Luluko had a standard upbringing to the age of 10; his Ashford years might also be counted as normal.

It can't be counted as normal. Lelandra said goodbye to a normal life the day her mother died. She had witnessed the horrible results of war and waited in fear for the day assasins showing up to finish their work.

As a boy, Lelouch went in with a strong analytic determination "Fathers should protect mothers/children".

This determination is shared by both boy and girls. Lelandra would also have an analytic mind by being a rising chessmaster.

Lelouch's mental 'law' that Charles should have protected/cared for Marianne/Nunally was weak.

How could it be weak? Children, boy or girl, grow up with the idea that parents are there to protect/care them.

A female would rather be much more likely to approach Charles seeking to understand.

Lelouche also approached Charles seeking to understand .

Luluko's "Why?" would be genuinely questioning, rather than demanding.

Considering she found her mother dead and her sister blind and she will be pissed off and demanding as well.

Luluko would understand "To truly live is to live by one's own power" as something the Emperor believed, not an absolute truth

No, she will accept it as an absolute truth just like Lelouche did. Do you even understand the importance of parents role in a child's upbringing? And fathers are more important role models for girls.

but she would not take it as a reason to reject/suspect the genuine kindness of others (Lelouch's distrust of the Ashfords, for their entire period of association, is one example).

Since her mother is assasinated, her sister is crippled, her father not giving a damn what happens to them and Britannia court is as byzantine as any other she has all the reason to reject/suspect kindness.

[ZingFreelancer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Two examples with Anya: Charles' Geass effect, the rewriting of Anya's memories, persisted several episodes after Charles and Marianne vanished in the World of C. It persisted until Jeremiah used his Geass Canceler on her. Also, Marianne's Geass effect, the transfer of Marianne's mind, persisted long, long after Marianne's physical death, and only stopped when Marianne's mind was transferred from Anya through the Twilight Door into the World of C.

Example with Suzaku: his "Live on!" Geass command persists long after Lelouch had been killed by Suzaku.

Example with Schneizel: his "Serve Zero" Geass command persists long after Lelouch had been killed by Suzaku.

Geass effects last until the command (if applicable) has been carried out, or until the Geass Canceler obliterates the Geass effect. Just how Geasses can persist after the Code-bearer dies (as seen with Bismarck and Rolo), Geass commands persist after the Geass-user dies.

That was interesting, but what about Nunnally?
She was geassed to keep her ayes closed, but managed to open them up by her own will. Nor did it seem that she struggle greatly in order to overcome geass.

[Nogitsune]

Hm... well, Nunally was geassed into thinking she couldn't open her eyes, wasn't she? o.o
So the fact that she managed to overcome that shows that the people around her underestimated her greatly - and how much she loved her brother.

When it comes to all that gender stuff, I agree with Goldarmy.
I really don't get where the assumption that girls can't become mistrusting, bitter and hateful is coming from.
It's not Lelouch's gender that made him into who he was, it's his past.
Maybe a girl would have done some things slightly different, but that would mostly be because girls are treated differently than boys. For example, Shirley probably wouldn't have fallen for a female Lelouch. ;P
...Probably. xD

[ZingFreelancer]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Hm... well, Nunally was geassed into thinking she couldn't open her eyes, wasn't she? o.o
So the fact that she managed to overcome that shows that the people around her underestimated her greatly - and how much she loved her brother.

When it comes to all that gender stuff, I agree with Goldarmy.
I really don't get where the assumption that girls can't become mistrusting, bitter and hateful is coming from.
It's not Lelouch's gender that made him into who he was, it's his past.
Maybe a girl would have done some things slightly different, but that would mostly be because girls are treated differently than boys. For example, Shirley probably wouldn't have fallen for a female Lelouch. ;P
...Probably. xD

That girly discussion is getting old.
If Lelouch would be girl, then would it not be necessary to change a lot of other characters gender in order to get the show "right" ?
There wont be any Shirley, there wont be any C.C. but instead boys

"And how much she loves her brother"?
Lol, she tried to kill/stop him.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by ZingFreelancer

That girly discussion is getting old.
If Lelouch would be girl, then would it not be necessary to change a lot of other characters gender in order to get the show "right" ?
There wont be any Shirley, there wont be any C.C. but instead boys

Why no C.C.?
I don't think she cares about gender. ;P

"And how much she loves her brother"?
Lol, she tried to kill/stop him.

Yes, and it annoyed me a little, but she still loved him.
Lelouch basically told her that she just didn't want to get her hand dirty. So what did she do?
Right. She started blowing up people and opening her eyes to everything. Literally.
It's really cute... in a morbid, twisted sort of way.

[ZingFreelancer]

That is because if we have CC and female Lelouch, staff wont be able to reproduce that "love/teasing" from CC side toward Lelouch without making things look too dirty.

[Nogitsune]

Dirty?
Uhm... oookay.

*glances at Nina, Schneizel and Kanon*

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

so having hundreds of people who know about geass suddenly is a good thing that would insure that ZERO-R doesnt get into any more risk
and they still would have to answer why they helped a monster like lelouch (as intended)
"i was just following orders" doesnt get you much sympathy

They were all masked. Who's to say they could be indentified later on if they got away. And even then since the leaders of the world do know about Geass they could be quietly released afterwards without anyone knowing who they were.