Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[lovelyshopper]

lockon is going to fight ali I wonder if he dies because its almost impossible for him to win with his injuries besides we can see thet his eye is hurt bu didnt doc moreno say "his injuries"
there may be others anyway lockon is my favorite charachter i hope he'll be the main charachter of the second half (if he's still alive )

[KamelRed]

Good episode, imo.

Exia going Trans-Am indeed reminded me of Xenogears plus a little bit of Shinn's sword moves when he unleashed his SEED.

[mikesince83]

Solid episode, well constructed series. I have some more in depth input on exactly why but I'll save it for later since we're nearing the end of this season. I just picked this up now since when it started, I had just finished Code Geass and don't like watching too much of the same genre at once.

Some thoughts on 22: A little less Saji/Louise than I had hoped for, but I'm alright with it as long as they aren't phased out altogether.

I do have to say while it's not a big deal, I think it's silly when mechs get sudden upgrades that create huge jumps in performance/superiority. I realize it's just to help advance the plot, but it still seems poorly implemented. For example why weren't the Gundams "fully enabled" from the start? It would have saved them worlds of trouble as well as possibly keeping Veda/Schenberg intact.

P.S. Is it common for the Gundam 00 episode discussion threads to hit 5+ pages before the episode even gets subbed?

[Terra]

It's pointless to start out at full power since all that happens is that everyone catches up to you. You yourself have nowhere to go. And with such a powerful system it makes sense to careful about letting just anyone use it from the start. By hiding it's existence Aeolia was leaving a backup for a situation as has happened in that someone has betrayed the organization and let CB tech fall into the hands of the major powers and evened the playing field. This way they still have the edge.

Topics are normally about 9 pages long when I finally get to read them in the evening after seeing the raw (I have really crap download atm, so it can take me 7-10 hours to download the ep depending on file size and I'm not kidding). This one was 15 pages when I finally read it yesterday. So yes, 5+ pages is very much the norm.

[NeonZ]

For example why weren't the Gundams "fully enabled" from the start?

The red particles are supposed to be harmful.

[Mangaka-chan]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

P.S. Is it common for the Gundam 00 episode discussion threads to hit 5+ pages before the episode even gets subbed?

It can hit 5+ pages beforre the episode even airs.

[Divinegundam]

Originally Posted by Ichimaru

What i also dont get is CB has the advance technology, and it took someone from inside to give away teh technology GN-DRIVES to U.N factions, which even the battlefield for earths fighters, but then again in this eps, how come CB are equiping themselves with GN-DRIVES when there suits are superior to that technology + its already installed...a better version? someone correct me on this.

Lockons new look = looks like SNAKE from MGS or kurt russell



As for GRAHAM + CUSTOM FLAG + GN-DRIVE = bring it on fellas i pwned all ur bases

The tech for the GN drives and the Gn drive t are very different. The real gn drive tech take many years to build and Gn drive t are easy to manufacture.

Originally Posted by The Small One

Only one?
Wasn't it like Ali destoying Throne Eins and Exia destroying Throne Zwei? Or did Ali survive again?
(still no episode for me...)

Something I wonder: Isn't this Trans-am Mode supposed to just disable this Filter in the GN drives, which limits the energy output? Since the GN Drive T don't even have this filter, shouldn't they be also this fast?

Well what more is need to be be said like i thought the real solar furnances have far greater output.

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

Please don't bring real-world physics into Gundam Haro will kill a kitten if you do

Ignoring my own advice, I'd counter that a photon is massless while GN particles' mass is probably greater than zero. While we're at it, since GN particles can stop cell regeneration, I'd venture that they cause huge radiation. Then we'll suppose that GN particles aren't really particles per se but some really heavy element's atoms. We can go on and on in circles but it doesn't help. Pilots can dodge beams. End of story

It has never been shown that the real solar furnance have harmful outputs. The substite used in the GN tau drive is what makes them harmful(as i predicted). Also i doubt that Aeolia would be involved in any tech that would harm the environment

[Trine]

I loved this episode but I feel like this will only further stump Setsuna's growth as a pilot, I want to see him defeat Ali without TransAm mode.

But then again it looks like Lockon will do that for him, why would Ali be running from him? Could it be he's running out of power or the damage done to the Zwei has crippled it?

Not to mention the fact that he was immediately able to use Zwei? That makes no sense and will need explaining in the episodes to come.

[Terra]

This is a guy who was able to get the better of Setsuna in an Enact the first time he piloted it. Why is it so hard to believe that he can pilot Zwei so well first time round as well?

[dom33]

Originally Posted by WhiteWings

..... if you say so.

The plot Is moving a bit fast. The Trinitys popped in and popped out a tad too quickly. I dunno if everything will fit in with the story at the end but I hope so.

my thoughts exactly.

[Trine]

Originally Posted by Terra

This is a guy who was able to get the better of Setsuna in an Enact the first time he piloted it. Why is it so hard to believe that he can pilot Zwei so well first time round as well?

I was talking about him bypassing all the biometrics, not his skill in piloting mobile suits. I don't think it's as simple as hotwiring a car.

[hamstar]

Originally Posted by Trine

I was talking about him bypassing all the biometrics, not his skill in piloting mobile suits. I don't think it's as simple as hotwiring a car.

ali didnt bypass biometrics, someone (we dont know who, most likely ribbonz) hacked veda so that ali could pass the biometrics. Were you watching nyoro subs? That might explain why u r a bit confused. They have the WORST translations out there bar none.

As for why ali can dodge bullets and fly gundams he's never touched before better than pilots that have been raised on them well...... let's just say he's a combat genius and leave it at that.

btw i thought it was totally hilarious when ali let johan go and told him to get into his gundam.

ali: "let's make this interesting"

[mikesince83]

Originally Posted by Terra

It's pointless to start out at full power since all that happens is that everyone catches up to you. You yourself have nowhere to go. And with such a powerful system it makes sense to careful about letting just anyone use it from the start.

If you're fighting a war (against practically the whole world) with human lives at stake, is that honestly a valid excuse to go into combat handicapped?

By hiding it's existence Aeolia was leaving a backup for a situation as has happened in that someone has betrayed the organization and let CB tech fall into the hands of the major powers and evened the playing field. This way they still have the edge.

It's clear the rip-off tech isn't as capable or complete as the original Gundams so It's doubtful that they contain similar system upgrades like Trans-Am. If the Gundams had been at full power when trinity/GN-X units showed up it's likely they could have avoided some major set backs like Lockon's injury. In other words, even with the stolen tech out there, the balance would have always been in the Celestial Beings favor.

[Trine]

Originally Posted by hamstar

ali didnt bypass biometrics, someone (we dont know who, most likely ribbonz) hacked veda so that ali could pass the biometrics. Were you watching nyoro subs? That might explain why u r a bit confused. They have the WORST translations out there bar none.

As for why ali can dodge bullets and fly gundams he's never touched before better than pilots that have been raised on them well...... let's just say he's a combat genius and leave it at that.

btw i thought it was totally hilarious when ali let johan go and told him to get into his gundam.

ali: "let's make this interesting"

Yeah, that was the subs I was watching. No wonder why it didn't make any sense, but anyway I think Ali might not be a mid-boss after all. If he has a connection with Ribbonz or someone that knows how to hack Veda, it would make no sense to kill him now(or within the next few episodes) without finding out the background in that.

But I think if anyone is gonna off him, it has to be Lockon. He needs to exact some kind of revenge for his slain family.

I don't want to see TransAm used unless it's against an entire army of GN-X or something along that same vein as it would cheapen the death of any of the opposing aces(soma,sergei,ali,graham) if it was used against them solo.

[NeonZ]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

It's clear the rip-off tech isn't as capable or complete as the original Gundams so It's doubtful that they contain similar system upgrades like Trans-Am. If the Gundams had been at full power when trinity/GN-X units showed up it's likely they could have avoided some major set backs like Lockon's injury. In other words, even with the stolen tech out there, the balance would have always been in the Celestial Beings favor.

But if the Gundams had been using their full power since the start and it was widely known by Celestial Being members, it's likely that the fake GN Drive would have that full power too, as Alejandro would have access to info about it. So they'd be in an even worse situation.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

If you're fighting a war (against practically the whole world) with human lives at stake, is that honestly a valid excuse to go into combat handicapped?

It is a valid excuse, because CB's goal wasn't military victory. If this was a "war", the Gundams could have attacked all the capital cities of the world in episode 1 and be done with it.

The goal was to continue the interventions while NOT fighting the nations themselves. This was to continue until the nations realized that CB isn't a threat to their way of life and it isn't worth stealing a Gundam to fight against.

The Thrones were sent to specifically destroy that goal, by attacking in a way that threatened nationhood.

So no, you have to start thinking about CB as an idealogical organization rather than just some bunch of people after world conquest. The goals are fundamentally different.

[Terra]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

If you're fighting a war (against practically the whole world) with human lives at stake, is that honestly a valid excuse to go into combat handicapped?



It's clear the rip-off tech isn't as capable or complete as the original Gundams so It's doubtful that they contain similar system upgrades like Trans-Am. If the Gundams had been at full power when trinity/GN-X units showed up it's likely they could have avoided some major set backs like Lockon's injury. In other words, even with the stolen tech out there, the balance would have always been in the Celestial Beings favor.

You saw what it did to Exia's speed. With the more long range type Gundams chances are the power of their weapons would increase, so the chances for more unintentional deaths is higher. Plus would you really want to trust a bunch of people straight off with that kind of power if you weren't sure about them? A lot can happen in 200 years and it's obvious a movement against what CB is trying to achieve formed. It's too big a risk with the kind of tech going around. The GN-X wasn't supposed to exist, so only something like what was done in ep 15 can bring the suits down and only after several hours.

[Cox]

Originally Posted by NeonZ

But if the Gundams had been using their full power since the start and it was widely known by Celestial Being members, it's likely that the fake GN Drive would have that full power too, as Alejandro would have access to info about it. So they'd be in an even worse situation.

Not true because the Tau drives are at that max output. The CB Drives use a Blanket to filter those red particles and make the engine give off infinite power. The Transam mode forces the red particles (ex Tau drives) into the Gundams armor. The Tau drives would need the TD Blanket and they are built at Jupiter. No one has the time to got to Jupiter in this time period

Originally Posted by Terra

You saw what it did to Exia's speed. With the more long range type Gundams chances are the power of their weapons would increase, so the chances for more unintentional deaths is higher. Plus would you really want to trust a bunch of people straight off with that kind of power if you weren't sure about them? A lot can happen in 200 years and it's obvious a movement against what CB is trying to achieve formed. It's too big a risk with the kind of tech going around. The GN-X wasn't supposed to exist, so only something like what was done in ep 15 can bring the suits down and only after several hours.

Good example would be the Wing 0 blowing up colonies. For all we know Tieria has the power to destroy the Solar Ring or scorch the earth with his guns. This all hangs on the fact that the other Gundams got the same type powerup...

[NeonZ]

Originally Posted by Cox

Not true because the Tau drives are at that max output. The CB Drives use a Blanket to filter those red particles and make the engine give off infinite power. The Transam mode forces the red particles (ex Tau drives) into the Gundams armor. The Tau drives would need the TD Blanket and they are built at Jupiter. No one has the time to got to Jupiter in this time period

By "that full power", I meant the Trans-Am mode of the main Gundams.

It's known that to make the whole TD blanket you need to go to Jupiter, but no one knows if that's for the filtering function, for the boost function, or for both. If Jupiter is only necessary for the filter (which was the only known function) then the GN Tau drivers could copy the boost, if it was known by Celestial Being members beforehand.

Besides, the conspirators found that evil haro near Jupiter, so if they had info about the true power of the GN Drive, it's likely they'd have made true GN drives with the blanket, rather than dismissing it as unnecessary and only focusing on the Tau drives.

[Gunner1988]

The way Johann dies is kind of sad to me... It looks like he really believed that all the slaughter was going to end the wars.