2010-10-23, 00:43
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Link #5223 |
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Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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So accidentally still had toss on when i played my 1v1 and discovered that cannon rush works against 1400 diamond players. Lol.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...elnaga-caverns
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2010-10-23, 08:02
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Link #5224 | |
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~Omedetô~
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
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More details about BLizzard custom maps and this can be great :
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"Blizzard DOTA uses characters from the StarCraft, Warcraft and Diablo universes, including the Diablo's Blade Master and Warcraft's Sylvannas" If it's really real then wow . "Left 2 Die" LOL if they can do as a L4D game then holy shit do want ! Anyway , damn i totally missed Boxer vs Fruitdealer match !! Edit : Found it but in bad quality : Spoiler for 1st game:
Spoiler for 2nd game:
Spoiler for Results:
Last edited by -Sho-; 2010-10-23 at 08:41. |
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2010-10-23, 16:29
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Link #5225 |
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Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Lol. SC2 dota is going to be a real joke. I'll just wait for Dota 2 released by Ice Frog and Valve, the one that isn't a useless clone.
anyhow.... I just won a 1 hr 16 minute game 1v1 against a zerg. I tell you right now that Zerg's roaches are a bit OP atm for my liking. Zerg macro just so much better. I won this because I frustrated him and threw him off, but really I had no reason to win this game. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...steppes-of-war
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2010-10-23, 18:27
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Link #5226 | |
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~Official Slacker~
 Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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If he attacked your main base where you were mass-producing vikings at the 45 min mark, it would have been gg... I found it odd that he never attacked your main base, only your expos
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2010-10-23, 19:14
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Link #5229 | |
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On a mission
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
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Quote:
You went 1 rax expo to counter his fast expand. This is nice and all, but you spent the resources on a planetary fortress-- a fairly costly venture that not only removes your chance at any pressure but it was also not really well defended or well saturated because you were worried about saturating it effectively due to lings. Plus a PF inherently means less econ due to less mules. The result? You have a poorly saturated natural that never really becomes saturated. You were effectively fighting 1.2 bases or so vs 2-3, with hardly any units and the zerg is more than 10 workers ahead of you early in the game! (Overall, the expansion actually sets you back ecnomically IMO) He might have wasted some lings but he was way ahead because he can happily macro. It is generally more effective to defend your natural with bunkers (can be salvaged, does not cost gas or require an ebay, increases power of existing units) than to PF it. If you get helions to this, you pretty much nullify anything besides mutas. The only exception is when he does some kind of ridiclous roach all in off 1 base. A FE zerg can't threaten you with that much save for harassment for a while. Which brings up another issue. Your natural is wide open-- you need to wall it off partially to slow down the zerg a bit. All and all, it was your opening build and poor saturation that put you in this nasty situation; if the zerg had simply expanded more and not suicided, he could easily have nonstop t3 units raining down on you, and there's nothing that could be done about that as you'll just run out of resources. If you fast expand, you must make an earnest effort to hold ground. Semi-walling your nat goes a long way. It's very tempting for terrans to just plop down a CC and plant mules with a few workers in order to give them a small advantage. But this actually ends up hurting you in the long run; unless it's a gold of course. That's a gamble though.
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2010-10-23, 20:12
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Link #5230 |
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Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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So so long as I bunker my expansion I can actually effectively defend it against any early zerg aggression since he wasted resources on FE?
This is quite a revelation to me if so. I think my lack of understanding of zerg is hurting me a lot.
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2010-10-23, 22:26
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Link #5231 | |
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The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
Perhaps though 2-3 bunkers is necessary to stave off the attack, allow you to build up your economy and then go on the offensive against the enemy. Against Zerg you'd need turrets to at least take off some muta pressure. On that matter, if you go do a regular MM just for harrass what's a good number of troops to use? 4-5 marauders? My problem I always have is just not knowing when to send in troops to put pressure on the enemy and if it's enough. It always seems it's never enough. Also, with the 1 FE, is it possible to transition into mech builds by swapping the rax with the factory for the tech lab to pump out tanks and thors? |
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2010-10-23, 22:41
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Link #5232 | |
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Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Quote:
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2010-10-23, 23:09
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Link #5233 |
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The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Nothing wrong with tanks.
Though when your getting the CC you could build a factory and start pumping out hellions and work towards a marauder/hellion combo. Then after you establish a foothold at the natural you can go into mech build or bio build with starport. I'll take a look at see if its possible. Though you will need a bunker at your ramp before moving out just in case against a baneling/ling combo. |
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2010-10-23, 23:57
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Link #5234 |
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<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
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Zerg macro works differently from Terran and Protoss. It is crucial that you don't leave a zerg idle for too long or else they will powerhouse drones and then ultimately crush you economically. This is because Zerg can produce workers at a mass rate, whilst Terran/Protoss produce workers at a linear rate. Hence, it is vital that you harass them and screw with their larvae. Force them to make units rather than drones or put down spine/spore crawlers. Simply moving your army halfway across the map and then moving back to your base is enough harassment, preferably with an overlord in sight to spot it (then proceed to kill it
 ), which forces the zerg to make units. And even if you move back, the zerg can't cancel because if they do, they lose the larvae.There was a BW logic concerning Zerg macro, which somewhat still applies in SC2. In BW, Terran and Protoss built unit producing structures based around the number of bases - i.e. produced units based on their income. A base could generally support 4 unit producing facilities (e.g. 2 bases could support 8 barracks or gateways). On the other hand, Zerg based their unit production based on the number of hatcheries they have. For every base Terran or Protoss had, a Zerg had to build 2-3 hatcheries to be considered even, and to support those hatcheries you needed approximately 5 (+2-3 drones on gas for gas heavy units) drones per hatchery (this was known as the 5-drone rule). So a Zerg needed 4-5 hatcheries for a 2 basing Terran or Protoss. You expand/put down another in-base hatchery if you left all your hatcheries idle until it had 3 larvae and it amounted to 300 minerals. If you don't, you built more drones. Now in SC2, it gets a bit complicated with queen mechanics and the "double vespene gas" per base. It is considered that a hatchery with a queen has the same unit producing capabilities as 2 hatcheries. So if your applying the same logic here, to to be in line with a 2 basing Terran or Protoss, a Zerg needs to have 2 hatcheries with a queen + 1 hatchery w/o a queen to be equal to a 2 basing Terran or Protoss. You will 10 drones per hatchery (+4-6 drones on gas for gas heavy units) with a queen and 5 drones (+2-3 drones for gas heavy units) to support those hatcheries. Effectively, Zerg macro logic works backwards compared to the Terran or Protoss. It's not necessarily more difficult but different. |
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2010-10-24, 00:28
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Link #5235 | |
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On a mission
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
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Quote:
If he goes hatchery first, well that spawning pool will take a while to come out. In fact against that you don't even need a wall because you can get attack units faster than that. You still need defense of course because mass zerglings would give you pain. Thus, placing extra buildings in the front such as barracks will often impede attempts to harass your natural. It's not necessary to do a wall at a ramp; just make it harder for them to come at you. Some may refer to this as "sim city" A planetary fortress could be very good if he didn't econ at all and tried to finish you off with roaches. But against everything else, you'd have trouble. It would not help vs mutalisks, for example, while getting a 2nd OC with mules does just because you can afford more antiair with the faster money The other issue is gas. Minerals tend to be plentiful due to MULE but gas takes a long time to come. 150 gas early game is very valuable-- that's a factory and tech lab right there! This is also the reason planetary fortresses are popular on 3rds. By that time the cost is no longer that big of an issue. The truth is, well, I'm not that great either. If you folks firmly believe that it's impossible to saturate both bases and survive incoming zerg incursions, then I feel FE might not be worth it, or at least so early.
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2010-10-24, 00:34
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Link #5236 |
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The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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LOL
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...-monlyth-ridge So some random guy I beat in a custom match wanted to team up with me for 2v2. So we both get pitted against a Zerg team (One silver and Gold). My partner was gold. Needless to say I was having nightmares of a previous match that I had with Hooves (Where Hooves was wiped out by cheeses/rush and I was the only one left but was overwhelmened at the end). In this case I just kept playing and destroyed both players. Got called a madhacker but whatever.  I also earned the Achievement UNBREAKABLE because my 2 or 3rd Thor lasted from beginning all the way near the end. I learned from previous lessons that you need to build counters and that's what I did. The Thor is one tough cookie if properly supported. I don't know why people dislike the Thor but I am loving it. Against Zerg the Thor/Marauder/Hellion combo is quite effective against Zerg. If they bring in mutas then turrets and marines are needed but it's a pretty strong force. The Zerg guys kept sending in waves of lings and hydras and my blue flamed hellions just ate them up. I mean seriously, those things are powerful. |
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2010-10-24, 00:55
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Link #5238 |
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Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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In 2v2 it is easy to build a thor marauder helion combo. But in 1v1 that takes time and from my my experience Z won't give you the time to get all that.
EDIT: Archon and I were discussing this replay of mine of this protoss doing 4 gate. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/9...istering-sands Now I went completely the wrong build for that map, I should've 3 raxed. But even if I 3 rax it is rextermly hard to counter that many units early on this map with rocks. Does anyone have any good ideas on how to counter it?
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2010-10-24, 00:57
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Link #5239 | |
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The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
I'm tweaking the 1 FE expo for terrans. In this case, I'd think it's best to focus on heavy marauders early on to establish that foothold and then support them with hellions for your first push. Granted, the Thor hellion marauder/marine combo is a good composition to field against Zerg players once you've established yourself. |
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2010-10-24, 04:59
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Link #5240 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Age: 33
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Did they actually cast all the games live? Streamers only saw like 8 games. Missed all the players off that I wanted to see like TLO, but he did go out straight away. Tastosis9 is such a good commentating squad. 
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| blizzard, starcraft, windows |
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