Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Actually, no. You're overtly simplifying things, here.
Alto did say he'd kill Ranka, if she proved to be a traitor. As long as he thought so, he behaved that way (even shooting at her projected image in rage, at one point), but when it became clear that she was being manipulated, he went back to trying to save her - no back-and-forth decisions, here. Just reactions to the facts, as he perceived them.

Granted, I did simplify things but if I remember correctly, Alto never shot at Ranka's projection. As soon as Alto saw Ranka, he kept questioning her reason for wanting to destroy them and even then, seemed pretty reluctant to attack (i.e. - Until Alto found out where Ranka was being held captive.)

Just to expand a little on this as well, Alto did say that if Ranka was being used as a tool that he would kill her, yet he didn't when that was exactly what was going on.

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Yeah, if anything, things are quite mild here, these days.

I wasn't here for the worst of the times but I did experience some of it and I must agree, this is very mild if you ask me

[BetoJR]

You should re-watch episode 24, then. Alto very clearly and deliberately shot at Mega Ranka, at least once. Screaming very loudly, if I recall correctly. But that's just the norm for him, isn't it?

And he stated that he would kill Ranka if she had betrayed Frontier. That does imply willingness on her part. Being coerced or manipulated kinda negates that.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

You should re-watch episode 24, then. Alto very clearly and deliberately shot at Mega Ranka, at least once. Screaming very loudly, if I recall correctly. But that's just the norm for him, isn't it?

And he stated that he would kill Ranka if she had betrayed Frontier. That does imply willingness on her part. Being coerced or manipulated kinda negates that.

I just did and as I said, Alto didn't even take one shot at Ranka. You might have confused Brera's shot at Alto right before he screamed According to my subs though, Alto states he would kill Ranka if she was "being made into a tool for the Vajra" or "if her song is trying to destroy us."

Whether it be being coerced or manipulated, I believe this falls into the "being made into a tool" section.

[BetoJR]

I should have qualified the "manipulated" for what was shown to us, ie. mental manipulation, not simply a hoodwink kind of thing. Still seems to me that she hasn't willingly betrayed Frontier, so it's not like he changed his argument, after all - as she didn't really betray them.

As for the shooting, I'm going to have to hold you to it, as I don't have my copies of the series' episodes quite handy, at the moment. Rest assured, this is just the perfect reason to rewatch the whole thing.

[justavisitor]

which, to me, is the reason why I should not rewatch this show until I forget everything in animesuki XD

I never like to overanalyze a series, break it down into every single frame, and try to guess the meaning behind it..but now I can't forget all those "meaning" and "analogy" ...I will rewatch the series when I forget all those "meanings" XD but I am afraid I have to wait for a bit

[Foreshadow]

Didn't Sheryl tell him to rescue Ranka before that battle and he agreed?

Alto just prioritized what Sheryl wanted over what he did. Otherwise he probably would have tried to kill her.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by Foreshadow

Didn't Sheryl tell him to rescue Ranka before that battle and he agreed?

Alto just prioritized what Sheryl wanted over what he did. Otherwise he probably would have tried to kill her.

I can't remember the scene but I think he did. As a soldier you are always caught between duty as a soldier to protect and your honor (to fulfill the promise).

[magnuskn]

Now, to be fair, Alto said that he'd kill Ranka on the best information he had at the time... what he got from Mr. Bilrer and Leon.

As far as Sheryl telling him to save Ranka, I think that would again have superceded his conviction that he'd have to kill Ranka, but it was not really tested. He got to see that Ranka was being used as a pawn by Macross Galaxy / Grace before he had to make a decision.

[magnuskn]

Oh, ugh. I should take my own advice and not go on that board.

Just wanted to check a bit if there was anything of worth there ( and I must say, if the Ranka fans here would bring only 10% of the energy they bring there, we would still have some interesting discussions ), but everytime I see a post by BleachOD, I feel like I am living a RP session of Call of Cthulhu. "You lose 1d10 sanity points" style. She may be a great old one, indeed.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, ugh. I should take my own advice and not go on that board.

Just wanted to check a bit if there was anything of worth there ( and I must say, if the Ranka fans here would bring only 10% of the energy they bring there, we would still have some interesting discussions ), but everytime I see a post by BleachOD, I feel like I am living a RP session of Call of Cthulhu. "You lose 1d10 sanity points" style. She may be a great old one, indeed.

You think Bleach OD is bad try having a conversation with Wesley. Between his god complex and his general belief that he opinion is always right (even after you post evidence that its wrong). NO, Kira Yamato is not a better pilot than Amuro Ray.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, ugh. I should take my own advice and not go on that board.

Just wanted to check a bit if there was anything of worth there ( and I must say, if the Ranka fans here would bring only 10% of the energy they bring there, we would still have some interesting discussions ), but everytime I see a post by BleachOD, I feel like I am living a RP session of Call of Cthulhu. "You lose 1d10 sanity points" style. She may be a great old one, indeed.

That's not fair now. There were a lot of discussions pro Ranka (fans/non-fans) but talking against walls is not fun.

[Death Header]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, ugh. I should take my own advice and not go on that board.

Just wanted to check a bit if there was anything of worth there ( and I must say, if the Ranka fans here would bring only 10% of the energy they bring there, we would still have some interesting discussions ), but everytime I see a post by BleachOD, I feel like I am living a RP session of Call of Cthulhu. "You lose 1d10 sanity points" style. She may be a great old one, indeed.

If you think you shouldn't go to a forum you think is weird then don't go in the first place. That said, if you don't agree with someone else's post, you shouldn't bitch about it either (it's what you're doing right now).

*Apparently, there's a fine line between Sheryl fans and us Ranka fans (on different forums). I favor Ranka x Alto to death but you don't see me bashing Sheryl x Alto do you?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

You think Bleach OD is bad try having a conversation with Wesley. Between his god complex and his general belief that he opinion is always right (even after you post evidence that its wrong). NO, Kira Yamato is not a better pilot than Amuro Ray.

Oh, I remember Wesley. Good that he has moved on, his posts sometimes got cited and he therefore semi-escaped my ignore list.

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

That's not fair now. There were a lot of discussions pro Ranka (fans/non-fans) but talking against walls is not fun.

Hey, I'm just saying that if they deconstruct my post over there, they are talking with themselves only. If they got a grievance, they should come over here and we can see if I got factual errors in what I wrote.

Originally Posted by Death Header

If you think you shouldn't go to a forum you think is weird then don't go in the first place. That said, if you don't agree with someone else's post, you shouldn't bitch about it either (it's what you're doing right now).

Yeah, since they are bitching about my post, and don't have the stones to come here to discuss, I think you should address your words to them.

And, sorry, but BleachODs posting style scratches my sanity score.

Originally Posted by Death Header

*Apparently, there's a fine line between Sheryl fans and us Ranka fans (on different forums). I favor Ranka x Alto to death but you don't see me bashing Sheryl x Alto do you?

Only terribly misinterpreting key scenes. ^^

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, I remember Wesley. Good that he has moved on, his posts sometimes got cited and he therefore semi-escaped my ignore list.

You know what the funny thing is, he believes that people who are big in the names in the Macross fandom only became well-known because of him. He was also banned several times from posting in Gundam vs. threads. He actually believed that the tv trope The Wesley was actually named after him.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

You know what the funny thing is, he believes that people who are big in the names in the Macross fandom only became well-known because of him. He was also banned several times from posting in Gundam vs. threads. He actually believed that the tv trope The Wesley was actually named after him.

<giant facepalm>

[MichiNekoChan]

I added some bad fuel to the fire. XD

In either case instead of lurking I'll contribute a tiny post to this romance thread.

Spoiler for My Opinion:

For one, I would like to state, it was Ranka whom I first cheered for in MF.

Heck it was the preview/episode 0(?) of the anime in December with her Nyan Nyan song that got me into Macross in the first place (I hadn't really watched/heard about it before that time)

But when the series started airing I remember cheering for Ranka all the way up to episode 21.

Since it was so close the the series end, i began to re-watch Macross Frontier on my computer over again. The songs were catchy and the action was awesome.

I was then in my marathon of Macross F, where the slight memory lapse of each week was no more... That I began to like Sheryl more then Ranka.

She had grown and progressed a lot in the series. In fact, when I re-watched episode 1, I remembered thinking "WOW she -was- such a bitch!"

Her character evolved so much that she grew on me a lot more then Ranka.

Albeit I still liked Ranka, but with her actions in episode 21 where she CLEARLY thought of her own pain over everyone else, I just couldn't help it. Sheryl was the stronger character (with her telling Alto to go to SMS and help out and of taking care of Nanase during the attack as well)

It was around then did I switch ships. I'm all for the strong guy protecting the meeker girl... but that's when she can't actually do anything/much to help. In this case Ranka could have saved the entire fleet, but failed to do so.

I remember reading sometime last year on a anime review blog that did MF ep20 that you see the true character of a person on the battlefield, and I have to say I agree with that.

Rankas mettle on the battlefield was quite disappointing. And it seemed that after that, her actions to try to reach Alto were subpar and poorly timed. After she left Frontier to defend itself, a gap grew between her and Sheryl on the distance they had to reach Alto. Sheryl now had Alto to herself and could now win by many yards in the romance.

And moving on the the last few episodes....while Alto still thought of Ranka, either to save her or kill her, that DOES show he cares, but I see it in the protective way of friends or a sibling relationship.

The very last episode was a clustereff of action and the return of Ranka. But you have to think that while she did help out, there still has to be questions from the normal population of Frontier of what happened and the responsibility that she might have caused a lot of people to die.

Plus that gap that was between her and Sheryl for Altos heart doesn't magically go away. They still had more time with each other. And during that time likely learned more about each other as well.

It can't be so easy as Ranka might think. :/ It's that part of the scene in the last episode that annoyed me. The challenge for song and love. It was like acting as if Ranka never left and Sheryl and Alto never spent that time together by themselves.

Mecha exists in Macross.... not magic. So I vote for the character with the most growth and time with Alto.

I vote for Sheryl.

PS - Tiny post wasn't so tiny. Also I probably know all of this was probably already said in a different context (or even in the same context) but I'm just putting my contribution on here.

Also since its prolly already been said, I put it in spoiler tags for easy skip-over-ness.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

I added some bad fuel to the fire. XD

In either case instead of lurking I'll contribute a tiny post to this romance thread.

Spoiler for My Opinion:

For one, I would like to state, it was Ranka whom I first cheered for in MF.

Heck it was the preview/episode 0(?) of the anime in December with her Nyan Nyan song that got me into Macross in the first place (I hadn't really watched/heard about it before that time)

But when the series started airing I remember cheering for Ranka all the way up to episode 21.

Since it was so close the the series end, i began to re-watch Macross Frontier on my computer over again. The songs were catchy and the action was awesome.

I was then in my marathon of Macross F, where the slight memory lapse of each week was no more... That I began to like Sheryl more then Ranka.

She had grown and progressed a lot in the series. In fact, when I re-watched episode 1, I remembered thinking "WOW she -was- such a bitch!"

Her character evolved so much that she grew on me a lot more then Ranka.

Albeit I still liked Ranka, but with her actions in episode 21 where she CLEARLY thought of her own pain over everyone else, I just couldn't help it. Sheryl was the stronger character (with her telling Alto to go to SMS and help out and of taking care of Nanase during the attack as well)

It was around then did I switch ships. I'm all for the strong guy protecting the meeker girl... but that's when she can't actually do anything/much to help. In this case Ranka could have saved the entire fleet, but failed to do so.

I remember reading sometime last year on a anime review blog that did MF ep20 that you see the true character of a person on the battlefield, and I have to say I agree with that.

Rankas mettle on the battlefield was quite disappointing. And it seemed that after that, her actions to try to reach Alto were subpar and poorly timed. After she left Frontier to defend itself, a gap grew between her and Sheryl on the distance they had to reach Alto. Sheryl now had Alto to herself and could now win by many yards in the romance.

And moving on the the last few episodes....while Alto still thought of Ranka, either to save her or kill her, that DOES show he cares, but I see it in the protective way of friends or a sibling relationship.

The very last episode was a clustereff of action and the return of Ranka. But you have to think that while she did help out, there still has to be questions from the normal population of Frontier of what happened and the responsibility that she might have caused a lot of people to die.

Plus that gap that was between her and Sheryl for Altos heart doesn't magically go away. They still had more time with each other. And during that time likely learned more about each other as well.

It can't be so easy as Ranka might think. :/ It's that part of the scene in the last episode that annoyed me. The challenge for song and love. It was like acting as if Ranka never left and Sheryl and Alto never spent that time together by themselves.

Mecha exists in Macross.... not magic. So I vote for the character with the most growth and time with Alto.

I vote for Sheryl.

PS - Tiny post wasn't so tiny. Also I probably know all of this was probably already said in a different context (or even in the same context) but I'm just putting my contribution on here.

Also since its prolly already been said, I put it in spoiler tags for easy skip-over-ness.

Thanks, loved your thoughts.

[Daril Gukku]

lmao, wesley came to these boards as well? his infamy grows. i remember the days when we used to battle it out....



on another note: bleach_od. even when i was a ranka/alto shipper i didn't understand them



oh well.

[Aeshma]

Originally Posted by MichiNekoChan

I remember reading sometime last year on a anime review blog that did MF ep20 that you see the true character of a person on the battlefield, and I have to say I agree with that.

I think that article was a bit too harsh on Ranka. I mean, I´m no apologist. Ranka fucked up, badly. But the whole thing could´ve been averted in the first place if the proper authorities, I don´t know, detected a massive, gigantic Vajra infestation on the ship? How could they miss so many larva? Even Leon and Grace were caught by surprise.

Which brings to another point: If the most pivotal element of your defense strategy depends on the emotional stability of a 16 year old girl, you are bound for a tragedy. One would think the authorities would do their best to keep her happy.

So Ranka fucked up, but they were a bunch of morons anyways.

[MichiNekoChan]

I do think the government on Frontier was leaning all to highly on Rankas power and therefore didn't check the ship after they made the jump. Quite moronic to lack guard/fall so easily back into safety when dealing with things that can kill a lot of people.

And I linked that article only for the reference I used, in case those fact checkers out there wanted blood. XD Though I agree it was a bit harsh, this blogger too, was rooting for Ranka up to that point (well he/she was more teetering on ship jumping after that mess-up, they didn't fully do it til the next episode)


As for the stability, wasn't everyone else around her age (Sheryl only a year older and Alto same age/year older)? Wasn't Minmay also around her age?

But I guess if you grow up getting your way by arguing/crying/throwing tantrums and becoming depressed/running off, that's what you'll revert to.... (ex - Episode 5 )

Cuz through what the anime showed me of Grace and Ranzou Saotome, I highly doubt either Sheryl or Alto got their way if they cried/threw tantrums :/

Hell, Sheryl ALWAYS says the shes Sheryl Nome! And that shes worked hard to get where she is (plus do you really think Grace would put up with that?). As for Alto, well you saw what Ranzou did to the Kabuki performer that didn't do a move correctly.... (Episode 11) really think he'd be nicer to a little kid who's supposed to succeed him/carry on the family name?