Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tempest Dynasty

Well now.

A short.

Someone's in trouble.

Spoiler for Trapped:

-spoiler-

EDIT: Page claim for... lunch. I like lunch.

Someone is in trouble indeed. Pinned between two deadly mages... literally...

Originally Posted by Anita

From what I could understand, canon says Ginga and Subaru are genetically similar to Quint, and then denies that she had anything to do with being their progenator. Nove is her true daughter, and instead has another IS. This IS, whose name escapes me at the moment, is Quint's true IS, not Vibration Shatter. Why Ginga and Subaru were genetically similar to Quint, I still don't know, but in any case it rules out that Quint had Vibration Shatter in the first place. Or Genya was the one with Vibration Shatter and they inherited his IS instead of their mother's.

Ah, no, Ginga and Subaru are the genetical clones of Quint, and just as much her true daughters as Nove is.

Hence the problem.

Another example of this are Otto and Deed. Both have been stated to be created from the same genetic base, yet both have near oposite IS.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I knew I was going to be dragged into this, even if I stand by watching.

Factors are people blessed with a great psionic power. They have also been called Psykers, Psions, Psychics, even ESPers. They usually only have one power, but that power can be as simple as cooking a perfect meal every time to something as mind-boggling as being able to see and influence the origin and death of Creation. Factors draw their energy, known as nethergon, from a sub-realm known as the Warp, the third plane of the three --Material, Fold and Warp-- that make up a dimension and its sea. The Warp is the final frontier for Bureau, who have occupy the material worlds and sail the Fold of dimensional seas, but till this day the Warp remains impenetrable. Factors however are much more familiar with the Warp, having been born with a patent connection to the realm that once connected every human being.

You'd think that this is enough for the Bureau to encourage and grow the Factors right? Wrong. Paranoia reigns instead, and for a good reason. Nethergon in sufficient purity and concentration gains AMF-like effects, making an army of strengthened Factors nigh-immune to magic attack. Jail used this principle to create a low-power field generator that can be mounted on his devices, and look how much damage it caused. Fortunately, or unfortunately for those who want to capture a Factor to understand the Warp, Factors with even any semblance of power are rare and far between.

Due to the way Ancient Belka society worked, Factors were very common amongst aristocrats, preserved across the generations by arranged intermarriages. They retain most of their wealth and power when the Bureau came to be, coming to occupy high places in the private and public strata of society. Said families rarely show off their abilities in public too, guarding their secrets lest their enemies learn of them and dull their advantage. This leaves researchers to whatever scraps they can pull off the street, and hence research into the Warp progresses slowly.

Sophia comes from a family that preserved the ISoFP in their blood. According to new lore by Anita, it is because Sophia inherited the trait rather than her younger frat twin was the reason why her father gave Hayate away (and in doing so caused her to be used as food for the Book of Darkness). This in itself shows that even IS can be somewhat random in inheritance. Siblings are rarely alike after all, unless they are identical twins.

The theory is incomplete, and as it is, it flies in the face of canon. I need more details to make it work in my favor, but no one is ever going to accept any of this even then, Anita. I've given up trying to convince anyone that it is going to work.

You should stop using my concepts and work on your own. My concepts only work for me, and will only make you look stupid.

So, basically you wanted to insert psychics into the Nanohaverse, and chose IS as the base for this?

... I'll get back to you in a bit.

Originally Posted by Anita

@Kha: If I don't use your concepts, who will?! >_<

I will, I just wish Kha would run them by me first. Kha has a tendency to have ideas which, at their core, are very interesting pieces of work. The problem is that he has a tendency to get carried away by the idea. There's nothing bad about this, it happens to all of us, but it does mean that his ideas need to be alpha'd and beta'd.

For example, what Kha wants is basically turn IS into a psychic ability. This can work, if he looks more closely at To Aruverse. People in the To Aruverse don't have psychic powers naturally, but gain them by following a set program of training, medication and education.

IS, at this point, are gained by cyborgification. There are already similarities to work with. They just need to be ironed out.

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

Because it's a peice of equipment specificly designed to do so. If you were to recall the various binds and cages that are bound to the Leize Twin's little trap cards... They aren't big. You can take twenty of these and tape them together in a football shape and get something that looks the same. It's a different spell, I grant you. But when you cut out all the junk not required to do anything but imprint "CAST TELEPORT" onto something, it's not hard. You just segment it so each grenade is essentially a collection of individual CAST TELEPORT emitters all taped to one trigger node.

And yet, with this device you have just claimed any mage with the ability to use a teleport spell to be invincible.

After all, if a handgrenade with no mage backing it up can do this, then a mage with a Device can shred any enemy to pieces with utter impunity.

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

Straw Man.
Trying to claim my motives/intent and then present them in place of my arguments is a fallacy to the issue at hand.

Because the overpowerdness of the device is the issue at hand here. Not to mention the ramification it has for the magic that inspired it.

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

Teleport spells don't scale well my dear storm. Teleportation is a volume based spell. The volume moved goes up cubed to the radius of the effect, thus the energy requirements also go up both in line with the cube increase in volume and more to please the Inverse Square Law... so the power requirement will grow exponentially as the effect of such a spell grows.

For example, to move a 1 foot by one foot by one foot cube of energy requires one unit. However, to move a 3X3 cube, requires 27 units of energy. Etc...

Source?

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

CONS:
It scales poorly, and is thus, inefficient.
It is expensive since it's made of lots of spell trigger equipment.
It is difficult to make in the first place. Thus, Rare.
It is HIGHLY illegal. Thus, very rare.
Its actual employment in an environment is limited.
It can be destroyed before it actually fires off.

Cons 2, 3, 4 and 5 are irrelevant. Lost Logia are rare too, but that doesn't mean we can just give our characters full-powered Lost Logia 'because they're rare.'

Con 6 you yourself said to be difficult. Now its easy?

Which leaves con 1. I dunno, l but any weapon that can kill Nanoha at full power in one shot is already powerful enough in my book.

Quick combat scenario: Mage fights Nanoha, mage binds Nanoha, mage throws grenade, Nanoha is dead. No defense, no escape, 100% guaranteed kill.

In any normal combat scenario, Nanoha could defend herself with shields and manage to escape, but since this weapon is unblockable....

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

@Keroko: OMG where did you get that sig! I've been looking all over for anime-Tau fanart for my fluff post on Tau Online!

Danbooru.

And yes, this image is causing lots to Tau crack... <_< A highly technological civilization with no magic to speak of breaching dimensional barriers...

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I will, I just wish Kha would run them by me first. Kha has a tendency to have ideas which, at their core, are very interesting pieces of work. The problem is that he has a tendency to get carried away by the idea. There's nothing bad about this, it happens to all of us, but it does mean that his ideas need to be alpha'd and beta'd.

For example, what Kha wants is basically turn IS into a psychic ability. This can work, if he looks more closely at To Aruverse. People in the To Aruverse don't have psychic powers naturally, but gain them by following a set program of training, medication and education.

IS, at this point, are gained by cyborgification. There are already similarities to work with. They just need to be ironed out.

*facefaults*

Good Kaiser that is brilliant! Most of the population are equivalent to Level 0/1 otherwise, and with proper training (that no one knows of) can maybe attain a higher level, but there are also the really rare who are naturally adept as a Factor. These need only some modification and cover the rest with training to attain Level 5...

This is all speaking from the point of view of those who know how to train Factors, which is an art lost in time and closely guarded by those who do.

Originally Posted by Keroko

In any normal combat scenario, Nanoha could defend herself with shields and manage to escape, but since this weapon is unblockable....

It's not targeting too, so one can't even use "Protection From Teleport"... Indestructible doesn't help if you are being removed from the game...

However, there is the ability to resist being torn apart. Just like how a barrier would save you from being ripped to shreds by multiple forces, a barrier would be able to repel the teleportation field if it's strong enough. The grenade has a limited time before it teleports itself to pieces. So if you could weather the storm and resist space around you being warped, which is a must to survive in the dimensional sea, surely a small teleport bomb can. I've always played with the idea of a field discharger, one that lasts for a short while and creates a nigh-impenetrable barrier resistant to all forces and deformation, but has enough power to last only 1-2 second
s. That barrier might save you from being forcibly teleported in different directions. As it is disposable, being teleported elsewhere would result in the barrier and short-lived generator being teleported, and you are left standing there to retaliate.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Danbooru.

And yes, this image is causing lots to Tau crack... <_< A highly technological civilization with no magic to speak of breaching dimensional barriers...

I wonder if you noticed Karlheim's Cywarrior commander oddly nicknamed Farsight.

The fact that your pic has a human face fits into my concept of Cywarriors.

It is short for cyborg warriors which is another way to Anglo-saxxonize "Sentokijin". And it is just that, legions and legions of cybernetic clone troopers used to bolster TSAB Forces. Even though they are just cyborgs with no IS, they are still actual applications of Jail's lesser findings, a sample given by him to keep his handlers happy while he went about his real plot. Massproduction had been underway for a while before StrikerS, and by mid 0075, several whole cadres had been created, trained, equipped and ready to be shipped.

The facility was raided and stopped temporarily by the Navy, but the Jail Incident hit, forcing much manpower to double back. After resolving the incident, Jail's other sponsors reared their ugly heads, barons who took the opportunity to break away from Bureau control. This Separatist Alliance attacked TSAB all over in a massive civil war just as there was still widespread chaos in the Bureau chain of command, and the very survival of the free world hung on a balance. High-Chancellor Jeremiah Sarento pushed for the Senate to pass a motion to mobilize this clone army to quickly bolster the faltering TSAB forces as AMF Gadget armies overran dimension after dimension. Due to dire circumstances, it was passed, and the Cywarriors were pressed into action under the command of Ace mages.

These 4 years after StrikerS, till 0079 when the war ended, would be known as the Clone Wars.

Each Cywarrior cadre is optimized for high mobility and firepower, employing heavy use of small jetpack-equipped walkers and skimmers armed with railguns. Each trooper carries a pulse rifle, the most advanced troop gun ever developed. Advanced technology is the rule for these cywarrior teams, making them the perfect counter to the Gadgets fielded by the Separatist Alliance.

These cadres are often further augmented with teams of Belka knights, Midchilda mages and other auxiliaries drawn from the pluralistic Bureau. All of them answer to an Ace mage to lead them to battle. Keroko has a cadre of her own, Cedric and Teana have the Gold cadre while Karlheim works with Farsight's renegade battlegroup.

[Kyral]

Yohoo~! xD

Hm.... back then I could sit in front of photoshop for 6 houres strait, know I have to take more breaks...

Ah well... I startet working on some Nightfall character sketches. (Like the one I did for Elric in BJ a while ago.)

I started with the most popular character there is.

Spoiler for Neltharion - The Dark Lady of the Black Aspect:

I think I try to do Ireul next.
There are not enough Shamsel pics in this board. xD

Hm... actually Noland would be also a character I'd like to draw someday... even if he's not in the story.

That's it for now! :3

[LoweGear]

Lineart in the style of official sketch art? You even included a close up of the eyes! Now that is awesome indeed

[Nya~n]

What made it even more awesome was the yan face.

[MeisterBabylon]

A lady aspect should be wearing less armor, like Alextraeza!

Anyone realize that we are dealing with a trap Neltharion btw?!

[Tk3997]

Larger reply later maybe (I frankly think I made my point about why I think the Nasu crap is a bad idea so I may drop it), but this jumped out at me and I must correct it on the off chance someone reads it and thinks it might acutally be true.

Originally Posted by stormturmoil

To add to what Keroko has said: rules of reproducibility: if you can build a small one, you can build a big one.

This is... My god it's rare that one sentence can so eloquently show a complete lack of basic scientific knowledge. Good god almighty this is wrong on so many levels it's hard to even count! I won't even try instead I'll allow someone smarter then me to explain it in a way meant to educate the ignorant. Saying that because you can build something small (or build it big!) you can then automatically do the reverse is simply insane.

That's how science works. And in Nanoha-Verse, Magic is a science.

No, no it's not. You fail engineering FOREVER.

Congratulations, you just put the Death Star into a briefcase. Your terrorists can now mass-scatter Planets.

Sure if to use the Death Start example they happen to have:
-A shipyard able to support vessels hundreds of kilometers around
-A small moons worth of super alloys with yield strength tens of thousands of times steel at a minimum.
-The ability to build a power source able to produce an output greater then a main sequence star at a tiny fraction of the size, with the use of almost no fuel!
-Sub-light engines sufficient to accelerate something with the mass of a large moon to a noticeable fraction of C
-An FTL drive that accelerate the same to possibly millions of times the speed of light.

But yeah if you have all that AND the Death Star plans and years to reverse engineer it, then yes you could build a Death Star. Frankly having plans for something is really only a tiny part of the process.

Then as ATC already pointed out if we assume moving matter with teleports uses energy roughly in proportion to how much it moves (seems logical) then fragging large areas would use truly mammoth amounts of power. So sure if you could say perhaps shrink a billion gigawatt reactor into a briefcase maybe it's a threat, but as long as the power demands require a larger and larger reactor the threat of proliferation is minor at best.

The rest of your argument is thus more or less moot, the type of weapon you purpose is impossible and so all the doomsday predictions are likewise impossible.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Anyone realize that we are dealing with a trap Neltharion btw?!

Care to explain?

I can work with critic, but I should at least know what is wrong.

[MeisterBabylon]

Originally Posted by Kyral

Care to explain?

I can work with critic, but I should at least know what is wrong.

Nonono I was merely jesting! I mean, Neltharion is male right? And this is a female sketch deshou? Doesn't that mean this is a real Keroko trap like the Creator himself...?

It's a very good work. I'm terribly sorry for making this bad joke.

[Heinekochan]

Is it safe to come out now? T_T

[Anita]

*hugs Hei-chan*

Are we done arguing? Good, back to the drawing board.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

*facefaults*

Good Kaiser that is brilliant! Most of the population are equivalent to Level 0/1 otherwise, and with proper training (that no one knows of) can maybe attain a higher level, but there are also the really rare who are naturally adept as a Factor. These need only some modification and cover the rest with training to attain Level 5...

This is all speaking from the point of view of those who know how to train Factors, which is an art lost in time and closely guarded by those who do.

Doesn't look too bad, but at the same time doesn't help ISoFP in any way.

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I wonder if you noticed Karlheim's Cywarrior commander oddly nicknamed Farsight.

You really love that odd Tau do you?

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

The fact that your pic has a human face fits into my concept of Cywarriors.

It is short for cyborg warriors which is another way to Anglo-saxxonize "Sentokijin". And it is just that, legions and legions of cybernetic clone troopers used to bolster TSAB Forces. Even though they are just cyborgs with no IS, they are still actual applications of Jail's lesser findings, a sample given by him to keep his handlers happy while he went about his real plot. Massproduction had been underway for a while before StrikerS, and by mid 0075, several whole cadres had been created, trained, equipped and ready to be shipped.

The facility was raided and stopped temporarily by the Navy, but the Jail Incident hit, forcing much manpower to double back. After resolving the incident, Jail's other sponsors reared their ugly heads, barons who took the opportunity to break away from Bureau control. This Separatist Alliance attacked TSAB all over in a massive civil war just as there was still widespread chaos in the Bureau chain of command, and the very survival of the free world hung on a balance. High-Chancellor Jeremiah Sarento pushed for the Senate to pass a motion to mobilize this clone army to quickly bolster the faltering TSAB forces as AMF Gadget armies overran dimension after dimension. Due to dire circumstances, it was passed, and the Cywarriors were pressed into action under the command of Ace mages.

These 4 years after StrikerS, till 0079 when the war ended, would be known as the Clone Wars.

Each Cywarrior cadre is optimized for high mobility and firepower, employing heavy use of small jetpack-equipped walkers and skimmers armed with railguns. Each trooper carries a pulse rifle, the most advanced troop gun ever developed. Advanced technology is the rule for these cywarrior teams, making them the perfect counter to the Gadgets fielded by the Separatist Alliance.

These cadres are often further augmented with teams of Belka knights, Midchilda mages and other auxiliaries drawn from the pluralistic Bureau. All of them answer to an Ace mage to lead them to battle. Keroko has a cadre of her own, Cedric and Teana have the Gold cadre while Karlheim works with Farsight's renegade battlegroup.

...I was not informed. So the Bureau is divided into 4 castes, led by mages at the top?

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

I knew I was going to be dragged into this, even if I stand by watching.

Factors are people blessed with a great psionic power. They have also been called Psykers, Psions, Psychics, even ESPers. They usually only have one power, but that power can be as simple as cooking a perfect meal every time to something as mind-boggling as being able to see and influence the origin and death of Creation. Factors draw their energy, known as nethergon, from a sub-realm known as the Warp, the third plane of the three --Material, Fold and Warp-- that make up a dimension and its sea. The Warp is the final frontier for Bureau, who have occupy the material worlds and sail the Fold of dimensional seas, but till this day the Warp remains impenetrable. Factors however are much more familiar with the Warp, having been born with a patent connection to the realm that once connected every human being.

You'd think that this is enough for the Bureau to encourage and grow the Factors right?

Acutally I'd think this is even MORE bullshit with no founding in Nanoha at all, but do continue let's see how absurd this nonsense gets.

Wrong. Paranoia reigns instead, and for a good reason. Nethergon in sufficient purity and concentration gains AMF-like effects, making an army of strengthened Factors nigh-immune to magic attack.

Awesome so not only does this shit break Nanoha canon with regards to magic it also makes the users invulnerable to magic in sufficient numbers. Yeah this isn't unsupported nonsense AT ALL.

Jail used this principle to create a low-power field generator that can be mounted on his devices, and look how much damage it caused.

So now this fucking warp is what causes AMF? The AMF we've seen a ton of and never even had HINTED as being anyhting besides technological? Also way to ignore the fact AMF is likely WAY older then Jail unless you think he installed every single one of the uber AMF into the cradle.

Fortunately, or unfortunately for those who want to capture a Factor to understand the Warp, Factors with even any semblance of power are rare and far between.

If by rare and far between you mean "don't fucking exist" then I agree.

Due to the way Ancient Belka society worked, Factors were very common amongst aristocrats, preserved across the generations by arranged intermarriages.

Yeah nevermind this was never ever mentioned and Belkan styles of combat we see are all based on normal magic just with a bent for close combat. Na clearly an entirely different source of power that could possibly even neutralize normal magic and that was highly common among Belkans wouldn't even warrant a mention!

They retain most of their wealth and power when the Bureau came to be, coming to occupy high places in the private and public strata of society. Said families rarely show off their abilities in public too, guarding their secrets lest their enemies learn of them and dull their advantage.

So now they're also the Illuminati!

This leaves researchers to whatever scraps they can pull off the street, and hence research into the Warp progresses slowly.

It might also progress slowly since the so called researchers are acutally quacks laughed at as the incomptent dogmatic buffoons they are by real scientists. Much like those that study "ESP" today.

Sophia comes from a family that preserved the ISoFP in their blood.
According to new lore by Anita, it is because Sophia inherited the trait rather than her younger frat twin was the reason why her father gave Hayate away (and in doing so caused her to be used as food for the Book of Darkness). This in itself shows that even IS can be somewhat random in inheritance. Siblings are rarely alike after all, unless they are identical twins.

If by random you mean "Is not genetically based in the slightest going by canon" then sure it's random.

The theory is incomplete, and as it is, it flies in the face of canon.

*Pins the "Understatement of the Week" Award on Kha's Chest.*

Wear it with pride!

I need more details to make it work in my favor, but no one is ever going to accept any of this even then, Anita.

Yeah thise details would ammount to the Nanoha writers suddenly deciding a crossover with Nasu would be bitchin' and entirely altering the fundamental way Nanoha magic works. Barring that this is all ridiculous nonsense.

I've given up trying to convince anyone that it is going to work.

You should stop using my concepts and work on your own. My concepts only work for me, and will only make you look stupid.

The problem IMO is you only see barriers and also a lack of self control.

You look at Nanoha and see not a wide open frontier to be exploited, but a small prison like island. You can't work with what you have you always want more, the grass is always greener outside, something from some new universe is always cooler. This in itself might not be a huge flaw Nanoha is open enough to allow quite a few concept to be adapted.

The problem is you can't seem to draw the line between adaptation and importation. Space Marines could be adapted a religion with a warrior ethos exist, genetic engineering and cyborging to make them somewhat superhuman also exist. Power armor is unlikely given Belkan resources and culture, but perhaps not impossible. The ingredients are there to make a homebrew Space Marine. The problem is you shun that and instead try to simply import them wholesale from another universe. You try to transplant everything about them into this universe you don’t try and alter the culture, you don’t alter the style of “magic” they use to fit the setting, you try to import there gear and weapons straight. It goes from adaptation to thinly hidden and badly explained crossover.

This nonsense with the Death Eyes is another example. You see some neato power from the latest thing you’re hooked on. (This is another bad habit actually) You don’t really try to adapt it to sort of work in Nanoha you instead try to adapt Nanoha so it can work. This is like ass backwards. Basically you’re trying to rewrite the laws of the Nanoha universe to support powers from a totally different one. This power is a very, very hard one to adapt though. As noted it relies on factors that simply don’t exist in most universes, Nanoha included, which makes a direct adaptation very sketchy. This shows clearly IMO in the hops you’re jumping through to try and make it seem (barely) plausible. For me when I’m thinking about importing something when I get to the point where making it work will require rewriting the laws of how the universe works… I tend to take a step back and reconsider. You though seem blithely unfazed by shredding even the very core tenants of the verse in pursuit of some cracky power.

This is where the lack of self-control becomes an issue. You never seem to think ANYTHING is a bad idea. You never self-censor, you’ll just toss out anything without giving it nearly enough thought. This I think is also what annoys people at times, but worse you really don’t seem to be learning from past mistakes brought on by a lack of careful consideration.

Normally I’d try to give advice about how this could be adapted better without actually breaking the universe, but as I’ve said I think something’s just won’t work. This I feel is one of them this was a power is so entangled with so many other issues that to try and port it drags in a huge amount of baggage with it. Still though an exact adaption is out I can make an attempt to capture some of its flavor and this is how I’d try to adapt it.

Spoiler for My take:

The biggest thing about the Death Eyes is they tend to ignore defenses for the most part, but require a close range attack on a specific point. This can to some extent be recreated in the Nanoha “ruleset”.

First off the “Fault Perception” part can be reworked, most objects (though not ALL) will have some weak point, thinner armor somewhere, a weak connection, a critical component what have you. Instead of having the perception work by detecting some illogical “fated death” have it just detect real faults or weaknesses. Make it a sort of superhuman ability to analyze data and find weak points. Keep in mind though that some things may not have readily exploitable weakness, a round uniform magic shield for instance is unlikely to have much variation across it, but it possible some areas maybe slightly weaker then others.

So that takes care of finding where to attack now the next bit. Someone with the above power to quickly analyze data for weak points would of course probably focus heavily on piercing power for surgical strikes, rather then firing a ten foot wide buster they’d focus all there energy looking to strike a death blow. You’re in luck in that by an large solid weapons backed by magic already appear pretty good at piercing many defenses. The most energy for such a strike would also of course be available if it was not wasted trying to do damage at range, hence focusing it on a solid weapon to strike in close combat would be the way to go.

Using the above layout we thus have a fighter who would scan for and isolate possible weak points, and then try to move in close in to use highly focused piercing attacks to strike a killing blow. This is rather close to how the real user of the power functions. Now of course some things aren’t the same this attacks would not be able to totally ignore defenses and some targets may lack viable weak points to exploit. Still if anything that just balances it. If you made the user solely dedicated to this attack method with few ranged options (as the template is) you could probably get away with making these close range piercing attacks very strong without too much bitching.

The end result is not an exact copy and it does not work exactly the same, but the style and method of fighting the users would have would be quite close. Nanoha magic can do allot IF you're willing to think a bit and accept that an adapted power will not be an exact duplicate of the template, which is after all the point of adapting something. You don't just copy it, you change it to work in the setting you want to use it in while keeping it's essence or flavor.

[Kyral]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Nonono I was merely jesting! I mean, Neltharion is male right? And this is a female sketch deshou? Doesn't that mean this is a real Keroko trap like the Creator himself...?

It's a very good work. I'm terribly sorry for making this bad joke.

Aaaaah~ I see.

Sorry, I thought I messed up something. ^^;

[MeisterBabylon]

*pats Hei on head*

Originally Posted by Anita

Doesn't look too bad, but at the same time doesn't help ISoFP in any way.

I haven't got a clue... yet.

Originally Posted by Anita

You really love that odd Tau do you?

I've fought alongside Farsight and the 7 Samurai since forever. It's 743 points of pure shooty awesome, and we suck not in CC.

Originally Posted by Anita

...I was not informed. So the Bureau is divided into 4 castes, led by mages at the top?

Mages sit at the top, that we know. Midchilda society itself comes in four flavors, split between the guardians and the shelterers:

The Cywarriors and everyone of the Ground forces.
The Cylots and the talented sailors of the dimensional seas.

The mundane folk that keep society and economy running.
The mundane folk that administrate and diplomate all under Heaven.

But not that tightly caste'd of course. Just that people are made to believe that each and every one has a part to play, whether they have powers or not. Like the Total Defence "public education campaigns" we have in our country.



@TK: I didn't invent ISoFP. I just bullshitted something bad. I'll repeat what I said in IRC, that I have no clue how ISoFP would work and I think it's a bad idea to even use it, unlike Tracing or synaesthesia which as you have pointed out have been already adapted and fused into Nanoha World, just to quote my sis.

I'll deal with the rest when I have time. You have raised valid points that help me, and those I accept.

But let it be known that Factors and the Warp are going to stay, whether you like it or not. Nausverse is coming, in fact with even more obscenity because I know some of you aren't taking to it well. I wasn't sure of porting Umineko's mysticism, but after the unabrided fury I suffered, now I am sure to include some mention.

Apart from writing, outright defying people makes me grin. Especially when I know I'll be breaking no rules.

Introducing new content is what I love and if it just happens to be outside your tolerance, too freaking bad, you probably weren't my target audience in the first place.

[LoweGear]

Now for some official crack I've been working on lately...

Spoiler for Snapshots: Twins:

Mai Enna: These are?

Cisa Bacardi: The blue one is Mammon, and the red one is Asmodeus, a storage device pair with integrated chainsaws in them!

Mai: ... chainpistols then.

Cisa: That's right! Now you shouldn't have any trouble with fighting indoors, since they're optimized to cast your short-range shooting spells faster and more efficiently! And the chainsaws should cleave most things you encounter inside any building short of steel girders and reinforced concrete. You can magically enhance them to do so, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Mai: They don't feel heavy at all.

Cisa: They're made to have optimum weight balance so you can wield them as close combat weapons better, and they're both set to interface with Astaroth as their primary AI, so you don't have to adjust too many settings for them hopefully.

Mai: It's is a splendid design.

Cisa: Don't thank me for the design, I was only commissioned to make it for you. Smith did the design for them.

Mai: ... Remi did?

Cisa: Ah! I saw that smile!!

Mai: No you didn't.

And this is what happens when you get lazy

[Keroko]

Okay, can we get back to discussing the ideas instead of the creator now? I'll admit to be a tad hypocritical coming from me right now, what with my latest catfight with ATC and all, but this is descending to a point where mod intervention looks to be on the horizon.

So how about, instead of debating on how things can't work, we start debating on how they can?

I'll go first: My prime problem with ATC's bomb is that it basically says "Teleportation mages are invincible" so how about, instead of saying it can't be blocked, we say that the defenses of a mage have to be sufficiently weakened? After all, the bomb is basically doing dozens of teleports at once, would those not be sufficiently weakened to the point where they can't simply ignore defenses on an unwilling target?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

I do not claim teleportation mages to be invincible. That is a distortion of my argument you have claimed yourself and then attacked. Thus, a Straw Man.

Originally Posted by Straw Man Fallacy

1: Person A has position X.
2: Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3: Person B attacks position Y.
4: Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

[Keroko]

True, but there is a trace of logic. If a non-mage powered piece of hand equipment uses magic to do X, then a mage with a device can do X as well, right?

Hence the problem. It would make teleportation mages invincible. If you agree that a mage cannot do X, then how can a non-mage powered piece of hand equipment do X?

[Tempy]

Originally Posted by Kyral

Yohoo~! xD

Hm.... back then I could sit in front of photoshop for 6 houres strait, know I have to take more breaks...

Ah well... I startet working on some Nightfall character sketches. (Like the one I did for Elric in BJ a while ago.)

I started with the most popular character there is.

Spoiler for Neltharion - The Dark Lady of the Black Aspect:

I think I try to do Ireul next.
There are not enough Shamsel pics in this board. xD

Hmm actually, these images are good for me. I have the (un)fortunate issue of having a muse that is affected by both music and imagery, so now I have an idea to write with...

Hm... actually Noland would be also a character I'd like to draw someday... even if he's not in the story.

That's it for now! :3

Haha, really? That would be interesting to see.

You can still add him to the story...

<_<

>_>

... ( ﾟ ヮﾟ)

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

@ Keroko: You fail engineering too... *sigh.*

Look, a mage specializing in teleports is burdened with operating a single spell. A single device can likewise handle a single teleportation. The mage is limited to being an organic life form with equally slow processing speeds. A device is limited in that it is a general all-pourpose piece of equipment that's handling the workload. When in combat, a teleport specialist has to build up the energy, run calculations though the device, then cast said spell. All of which eat up time. That's for one spell. Anyone with half a brain is going to see it coming and be able to avoid it, so its inherently as bad for combat as a musket loading individual in a modern firefight.

Using my earlier example, the grenade is composed of 16+ micro-devices dedicated to the single minded task of teleportation wrapped in a casing. All the work has been done ahead of the fight. The spells are already set, the power core is already charged. The only job is to twist the top to start the fuse/timer, and get rid of it.

So what you end up claiming by your logic here is that somehow a mage and device who are specialized but not dedicated to a task, is somehow equal to a device, made up of SEVERAL devices, who's ONLY purpose in the universe, is the task.

In real world terms, you're using the comparison that a racing motorcycle can't be faster than a human on a mountain bike or it's HAXX.

What the grenade is, is an end product of a Logistics chain. Just like real weapons. A real life hand grenade is the product of several dozen industrial processes.

Mining, metalwork, chemical extraction/purification, mixing, fabrication, painting, transport, procurement.

But did you know it kills you the exact same way as a guy with a knife? It shreds your organs with pieces of sharp metal. The difference is all the work is done at a different point. With a knife kill, the work is done on the spot by the weilder. With a grenade, all the work and then some is done with the industrial processes and preparation so the person who throws the grenade has all the energy to spare to go on and kill other enemies.