2012-10-18, 09:12 | Link #101 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
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School Days = adults only game (eroge) Highschool DxD = Light Novel Yosuga no Sora = adults only game (eroge)
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2012-10-18, 09:57 | Link #102 | |
Criminal Unrequitor
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2010
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While Tomoya is the "playable" character in the VN, it's pretty much KyoAni's doing that he's able to become a character that's alive (of course this is only my interpretation of this). It's sort of the same case for Kanon's Yuuichi who from someone painfully normal (Kanon 2002) turned into someone with snark and vibrance (Kanon 2006). The MC being devoid of a personality should be eradicated already in the anime medium as it doesn't work the same way.
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The main attraction might be the girls and the creators would want to explore on their problems, but as with Tomoya of CLANNAD, things should be presented in a better manner already. It's like putting more stereotypes (that the main characters are devoid of problems themselves while all 10 heroines have problems) on something so stereotypical already. In essence, generic harem anime with generic male lead is probably the WORST thing an anime could do especially now that harem anime can be presented in so many interesting ways.
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2012-10-18, 10:03 | Link #103 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The problem is that most of the time their personalities are pretty donkan, if the story is not plot heavy or action based. Games made by Key (like in your own example Clannad and Kanon) are pretty story heavy. |
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2012-10-18, 10:45 | Link #104 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Age: 29
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Better ask the OP about why the heck he/she made this thread in the first place. Yep, i know that this thread is silly, but somehow i felt that the theme presented is quite thought provoking (at least in my opinion).
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2012-10-18, 11:10 | Link #105 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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Something like To Love-Ru originally ran in Shounen Jump, and Darkness (famed for its "borderline" sexual content) is now in Jump Square (another shounen magazine by the same publisher). In the West we usually consider sexual fanservice for "mature audiences only", but that isn't the way it's usually pitched in the home market. (Though of course being a shounen property doesn't prevent older audiences from also buying it. After all, they're the ones who buy most of the anime Blu-Rays/DVDs.)
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2012-10-18, 12:43 | Link #107 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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That said, I don’t think anime necessarily portrays the retribution all that accurately – your typical tsundere probably isn’t going to punch you out on the spot. More likely, she’ll be embarrassed and then give you some good jabs to the ribs and heckling about it later. (The tsunderes I’ve known in real life tend to go for the ribs… usually, the level of force clearly isn’t intended to actually hurt that much as their intention is to make a point rather than cause damage, though underestimation is fairly common. Also, one of them used used a kendo stick one time and… yeah, even a light jab feels pretty powerful) I also think, regardless of the tsundere reluctance to forgive (try and imagine Taiga swallowing her pride... yeah), that bashful apologetics are an underexplored frontier in tsundereism.
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2012-10-18, 12:54 | Link #108 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Typical western fan mischaracterization versus fact: K-On! is not a "girlie manga", its a seinen publication, as was the anime (though the director made some subtle shifts so that it ganered mainstream appeal. Toradora! is not "girlie romance", its a shounen publication. Yotsuba& is shounen. I could go on for pages. Typically, what complainer/whiners want are one small subsection of the kind of material shounen publications include in what they publish What I'm seeing in THIS thread are complaints that seem to base their entire opinion off of a few of the simplest (or older) examples of 'harem anime' or 'tsundere' or whatever they're upset about.
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2012-10-18, 12:58 | Link #109 |
Did nothing wrong
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A harem anime focuses on the appeal of the female characters typically, and thus the male character often just gets written as a penis. This is why Ero VNs often have the male as extremely nondescript and not voiced so one can pretend his presence is minimal. Most of the time in Bishoujo anime or games, you wouldn't expect the guy to take prominence on the cover right?
However, things are changing and we seem to be moving away from these things. Certainly Haruka from Yosuga no Sora for example is probably just as attractive as the female characters in the show.
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2012-10-18, 12:58 | Link #110 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Age: 29
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Should we just lock this thread already? I see no more function in this thread aside of pointless talks and chatroom. Not to mention the OP of this thread keep throwing his childish ideals which completely off-base.
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2012-10-18, 13:08 | Link #111 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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2012-10-18, 13:18 | Link #112 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The protagonists do and should have some personality, otherwise the story will almost get unbearable like Imouto no Katachi. As such i can easily name plenty of good main characters in eroge who have interesting backstories, traits and/or personalities. |
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2012-10-18, 13:30 | Link #113 | ||
Did nothing wrong
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Still my point was with the frequent occurrence of the male lead not having a voice+ and the frequent tendency of most of the graphics from those scenes to greatly obscure the dude's face. It certainly is not a nonexistent trope. And even excluding that, the guys are often heavily clothed during the sex. Quote:
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2012-10-18, 13:38 | Link #114 | |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Age: 29
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2012-10-18, 13:41 | Link #115 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2012-10-18, 14:01 | Link #116 | |
Did nothing wrong
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I can't prove a negative, so feel free to list them. But can you be confident that these are just exceptions. You're right though, I haven't an exhaustive list of VNs that I've played and almost never complete them, however, I think I've had enough experience with games and hentai to put two and two together. This is why I don't use the words most and all to avoid retarded semantics debates. To me though it's simple logic that as a game that features many attractive females will put the focus on them. There are many, many ones that feature them on the cover, no? And there's just a higher chance they'd be more interesting. It's what sells. It's also simple logic that a game is inherently a self insert in most regards, especially when you can direct the character's actions. Making a character too distinct could interfere with the process. Of course, games are evolving. I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that pornographic material has certain elements of sexual fantasy to it which of course increases the self-insert factor. Finally, it would be safe to say that a lot of the audience, heterosexual males, do not have interesting men in their sexual fantasies. And to me it makes perfect sense that when the transition comes to anime, that viewers obviously do not have control over the protagonist's actions and a straight port will seem boring.
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2012-10-18, 14:05 | Link #117 | |
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Your control of the said character is rather limited, i get choices A, B, C and almost every time none of these answers are anything close how i would respond in that situation. The male character is in lot's of cases more than just as you said "penis" for the story. I think that visual novels are as the name suggests still novels but in a slight different form. Which means all the characters (including the MC) play their part , so that the story can work (or fail). It's not like what was mentioned earlier a dating game like Tokimeki memorial in which the main character was almost a bland slate. |
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2012-10-18, 14:08 | Link #118 | ||
Did nothing wrong
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Although, I might have just found a revelation about video game adaptations in general and the difficulty of adapting them.
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2012-10-18, 17:15 | Link #120 | ||||
Senior Member
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Look, the fact is that there's no real evidence that the anime market is against harem anime (or anime with harem anime elements) with strong male leads. There's no evidence whatsoever for that, and there's plenty of evidence to the contrary (not just SAO, but also the Key titles, as I hold both Yuichi and Tomoya to be pretty strong male leads). Look, if you simply like doormat male leads, then defend that. Don't try to hide behind some misplaced economic argument that completely flies in the face of the success of SAO, Kanon, Clannad, Steins;Gate, and many other anime shows. Heck, how about the Monogatari Series? You certainly don't get much more harem-esque than that, and the male lead in that is a pretty strong character. Quote:
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