AnimeSuki Forums

Sheba · 2009-05-02, 02:21

1. Yuda and Rei's death in Hokuto no Ken, especially Rei's.

2. Iggy?
What?!
Iggyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

3.Sergeant Elias in Platoon.

4. FREEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

5.

Spoiler for for Trigun:

6. a real life example, "Shoot, coward! You are only killing a man!"

There are no death more awesome than another kind of death in fiction. It's a matter of how to bring them, the "right mood", the right word, the right music (in series and movies), what the death teaches to the reader and the protagonist. Pre-mortem explosion, kill count and hotblood have nothing to do with it. Even in real life, a couple of people died what would appear an anticlimatic death, but their deeds, their legacy and finally their final words crowned them.

Page claiming in the name of every kinds of tearjerking deaths: Jesus Style, death in childbirth, death for your ideals, smirking "Heh, I did it, b*tch/bastard..." in protagonist's arms kind of death, "Let's eat a last chocolate parfait together when I'll be back" kind of death. All of them.

itanshi1 · 2009-05-02, 02:41

Don't forget "I'll get us something warm to drink!"

Keroko · 2009-05-02, 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by itanshi1

I also heavily disagree making someone 'not dead after all' devalues anything the character went through, surely they still remember it all.

'Not dead at all' may not destroy everything (see Clannad, the reset was unexpected, but that did not change that I was crying over and over before) however it would destroy the sense of mortality for the remainder of the series. Rather then fearing for the character, you get the DBZ effect.

"Oh no, Goku died!"

"What, again?"

"Eh, they'll just wish him back with the dragonballs."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Agreed. An excellent recent example:

Spoiler for Naruto Spoilers Concerning Recent Chapters:

Spoiler for More Naruto stuff:

Which was also my entire point. You can't pull of a near-death without an actual death. Especially not in a series with a 'nobody important will die' aura like Nanoha.

FlameSparkZ · 2009-05-02, 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by itanshi1

Don't forget "I'll get us something warm to drink!"

Let's not forget the "10 times pay back" promise...

And yeah, Clannad made me cry too. But at least it ended all well.

mechdra · 2009-05-02, 04:53

In my opinion, if fans desire to have death in this series, Vivio's death will be the best death to cause character development.

Spoiler for Spoilers:

TheShinySword · 2009-05-02, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

'Not dead at all' may not destroy everything (see Clannad, the reset was unexpected, but that did not change that I was crying over and over before) however it would destroy the sense of mortality for the remainder of the series. Rather then fearing for the character, you get the DBZ effect.

"Oh no, Goku died!"

"What, again?"

"Eh, they'll just wish him back with the dragonballs."

I gotta go with Keroko on this one. Bring someone back once and you get *sniffle* "He's okay after all" Bring someone back twice and you get. "...He's okay after all... hurrah" Bring someone back three times and you get. "Oh what you were dead?"

itanshi1 · 2009-05-02, 09:42

yeah dbz was horrible, thats a given

heh my quote wasn't clannad

Dri · 2009-05-02, 13:33

When I first found out about StrikerS, it was in an AMV that focused almost entirely on Subaru's berserk episode to the song The Hero Without A Name (Darker Than Black's second opening). From watching it alone, I was persuaded that Ginga was going to die, and that's what got me to watch StrikerS-- and then rewind to the other two seasons.

After seeing that she didn't die at all, I can't say I have a preference. Both ways are acceptable:

in one case, Ginga dies, and Subaru evolves as a character. I could see an ending shot with her holding Blitz Caliber in her hand, clenching it, and looking up to the sky. Battle-hardened, 'not everything always ends well' Subaru rides off to save people with the twin Calibers. It's not a happy ending, but it's not a Bad End either.

in the other case, Ginga doesn't die, and we get what happened in StrikerS. It's no worse or better, it's just a different way to do it. Subaru learns a lesson, just a different one, and she saves her sister in the end. Happy ending, everything always turns out to be OK.

So really-- I can't say I like one more than the other. As a roleplayer I'm a sucker for not always getting happy endings, though, so the first one has its charms. But looking at the way the anime was set up, it would have made no sense to kill off Ginga so abruptly without giving her more screentime to establish her as verily important. The entire tone was save/rescue, not avenge, especially with Vivio in the mix.

Oh, gosh, what have I started, character death discussion in a Nanoha thread? LORD HAVE MERCY. D:

And RE: the discussion above, I couldn't agree more. Series that make death a recurring joke just completely ruin the moment, and then they come up with a 'so dead he can't be revived anymore' method a-la-Goku to keep him out of the story-- but then they retcon that with a super wish! Really you might as well stop killing the characters altogether if you're going to bring them back within the next volume anyway.

Nya~n · 2009-05-02, 13:59

*cough*lockonstratos*cough*

True, that. Why kill him/her when you can bring him/her back to life in the first place? Just because they could? pftttt

That said, if any character's death would have the biggest impact, I'd say it'd be Fate's. Can you imagine the shitstorm that would be kicked up by the sheer numbers of Fate fanboys? Also, cue Nanoha, Vivio, Hayate, Yuuno and Teana thirsting for blood.

Mhmm.. Bloodthirsty Yuuno... I'd love to see that. Yes, even if it means Fate's death. Time for the guys(other than Touma) to shine. Show them all the power of bondageoffensively used binding spells!

Avatar_notADV · 2009-05-02, 14:03

What about making Nanoha/gang the nominal antagonists? The new characters as sympathetic protagonists, who happen to be opposed by the TSAB... You can get a lot of story out of that before the eventual befriending. ;p

Keroko · 2009-05-02, 14:09

That's.... not at all that far fetched, actually.

Dri · 2009-05-02, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

That's.... not at all that far fetched, actually.

See: StrikerS Sound Stage X. That's basically what they tried doing with Runessa, isn't it?

Keroko · 2009-05-02, 14:17

Hmm, not really. Runessa was more a sympathetic antagonist. But give these three characters a plot that forces them to go against the TSAB (the book must be destroyed, but destroying it would take Lily with it, just to name an example) and we have our new heroes fighting for a just cause while our old heroes are fighting for their just cause.

Dri · 2009-05-02, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Hmm, not really. Runessa was more a sympathetic antagonist. But give these three characters a plot that forces them to go against the TSAB (the book must be destroyed, but destroying it would take Lily with it, just to name an example) and we have our new heroes fighting for a just cause while our old heroes are fighting for their just cause.

Well I more meant that they tried making Runessa appear as a good guy for trying to avenge herself for all the nasty stuff the TSAB did to her homeworld. Which would actually make her a decent protagonist if we make the TSAB the antagonists.

Of course it's a matter of time before, if they do that, the two join forces to combat a third, more powerful group. I wonder what that'd be like if Jail and Precia joined forces. An army of cyborg Fate clones! D:

asaqe · 2009-05-02, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9taileddemon

For the numbers the only one I would not freak out over them being killed would be Deed. If 7Arcs touches Cinque, blood will be payed. In general I just don't expect it to be a Number that would get killed
.

Well too bad they can't off sette, too unpopular you know

Dri · 2009-05-02, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaqe

Well too bad they can't off sette, too unpopular you know

Didn't they just jail her forever and ever along with Uno, Tre, Quattro and Jail? Might as well be offed, we'll never get to see her. Unless they bring Jail back as a villain.

Kyral · 2009-05-02, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dri

Unless they bring Jail back

Well, seeing how they made Hayate more like in Kimura's doujinshi already...

Evil Rick · 2009-05-02, 14:54

I read 7 pages of Nanoha force alredy (don't know if it's the whole number, probably no O_o)

Not the big deal, more like an intro, maybe I'm missing something

NorthernFallout · 2009-05-02, 14:57

The prologue is only 8 pages so. The rest is bound in a few months.

Dri · 2009-05-02, 15:09

I don't mind a serious Hayate. I'm also not a big fan of BetrayerS because I find it nonsensical that they would split up that way over Nanoha's death, or that they would BAN MAGIC because Nanoha overused it and died. It just seems like a cheap plot device to me-- sorry to any fans of that particular doujin series. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

All that to say I don't mind a serious Hayate-- she was pretty dead serious in StrikerS as it were, especially with unleashing Diabolic Emission like she did. It's not a big stretch that now she actually looks older and has commander experience under her belt.

Pages! Yes, the prologue only had 8. Who knows how many the actual chapters will have; my guess is anywhere between 8 and 24 per month.

2009-05-02, 02:21	Link #1361
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	1. Yuda and Rei's death in Hokuto no Ken, especially Rei's. 2. Iggy? What?! Iggyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! 3.Sergeant Elias in Platoon. 4. FREEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! 5. Spoiler for for Trigun: Spoiler for Should you?: Spoiler for No really: Spoiler for Don't go cry in the mods' skirts if you were dumb enough to check it: Spoiler for Seriously, don't: Nicholas D. Wolfwood in Trigun 6. a real life example, "Shoot, coward! You are only killing a man!" There are no death more awesome than another kind of death in fiction. It's a matter of how to bring them, the "right mood", the right word, the right music (in series and movies), what the death teaches to the reader and the protagonist. Pre-mortem explosion, kill count and hotblood have nothing to do with it. Even in real life, a couple of people died what would appear an anticlimatic death, but their deeds, their legacy and finally their final words crowned them. Page claiming in the name of every kinds of tearjerking deaths: Jesus Style, death in childbirth, death for your ideals, smirking "Heh, I did it, b*tch/bastard..." in protagonist's arms kind of death, "Let's eat a last chocolate parfait together when I'll be back" kind of death. All of them.

2009-05-02, 02:41	Link #1362
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Don't forget "I'll get us something warm to drink!" __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-05-02, 04:53	Link #1365
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	In my opinion, if fans desire to have death in this series, Vivio's death will be the best death to cause character development. Spoiler for Spoilers: Talking about death, the most impactful death that I have seen is actually the members of GGG in Gaogaigar and the main character (especially the dog's death) in Sokyuu no Fafner - Single Program - Right of Left. However, I believe that death is not the most painful and impactful event. I believe that getting someone hurt badly is more impactful than death itself. What I mean here is permenant scar like what happened to Louise in Gundam OO and Coco im Nasquash where they will affact the character and the people around them. Those situation are more painful than death itself. Last edited by mechdra; 2009-05-02 at 05:07.

2009-05-02, 09:42	Link #1367
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	yeah dbz was horrible, thats a given heh my quote wasn't clannad __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-05-02, 13:59	Link #1369
Nya~n umbrella moe~♥ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: huh wha-?	coughlockonstratoscough True, that. Why kill him/her when you can bring him/her back to life in the first place? Just because they could? pftttt That said, if any character's death would have the biggest impact, I'd say it'd be Fate's. Can you imagine the shitstorm that would be kicked up by the sheer numbers of Fate fanboys? Also, cue Nanoha, Vivio, Hayate, Yuuno and Teana thirsting for blood. Mhmm.. Bloodthirsty Yuuno... I'd love to see that. Yes, even if it means Fate's death. Time for the guys(other than Touma) to shine. Show them all the power of bondageoffensively used binding spells! __________________

2009-05-02, 13:33	Link #1368
Dri Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Canada/Montreal	When I first found out about StrikerS, it was in an AMV that focused almost entirely on Subaru's berserk episode to the song The Hero Without A Name (Darker Than Black's second opening). From watching it alone, I was persuaded that Ginga was going to die, and that's what got me to watch StrikerS-- and then rewind to the other two seasons. After seeing that she didn't die at all, I can't say I have a preference. Both ways are acceptable: in one case, Ginga dies, and Subaru evolves as a character. I could see an ending shot with her holding Blitz Caliber in her hand, clenching it, and looking up to the sky. Battle-hardened, 'not everything always ends well' Subaru rides off to save people with the twin Calibers. It's not a happy ending, but it's not a Bad End either. in the other case, Ginga doesn't die, and we get what happened in StrikerS. It's no worse or better, it's just a different way to do it. Subaru learns a lesson, just a different one, and she saves her sister in the end. Happy ending, everything always turns out to be OK. So really-- I can't say I like one more than the other. As a roleplayer I'm a sucker for not always getting happy endings, though, so the first one has its charms. But looking at the way the anime was set up, it would have made no sense to kill off Ginga so abruptly without giving her more screentime to establish her as verily important. The entire tone was save/rescue, not avenge, especially with Vivio in the mix. Oh, gosh, what have I started, character death discussion in a Nanoha thread? LORD HAVE MERCY. D: And RE: the discussion above, I couldn't agree more. Series that make death a recurring joke just completely ruin the moment, and then they come up with a 'so dead he can't be revived anymore' method a-la-Goku to keep him out of the story-- but then they retcon that with a super wish! Really you might as well stop killing the characters altogether if you're going to bring them back within the next volume anyway.

2009-05-02, 14:03	Link #1370
Avatar_notADV Once and Current Subber Join Date: Dec 2005	What about making Nanoha/gang the nominal antagonists? The new characters as sympathetic protagonists, who happen to be opposed by the TSAB... You can get a lot of story out of that before the eventual befriending. ;p

2009-05-02, 14:09	Link #1371
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	That's.... not at all that far fetched, actually.

2009-05-02, 14:17	Link #1373
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Hmm, not really. Runessa was more a sympathetic antagonist. But give these three characters a plot that forces them to go against the TSAB (the book must be destroyed, but destroying it would take Lily with it, just to name an example) and we have our new heroes fighting for a just cause while our old heroes are fighting for their just cause.

2009-05-02, 14:54	Link #1378
Evil Rick Black Dragon Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the Netherrealm, thinking who to betray next...	I read 7 pages of Nanoha force alredy (don't know if it's the whole number, probably no O_o) Not the big deal, more like an intro, maybe I'm missing something __________________

2009-05-02, 14:57	Link #1379
NorthernFallout The Interstellar Medium Author Join Date: May 2008 Location: [SWE] Age: 34	The prologue is only 8 pages so. The rest is bound in a few months. __________________

2009-05-02, 15:09	Link #1380
Dri Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Canada/Montreal	I don't mind a serious Hayate. I'm also not a big fan of BetrayerS because I find it nonsensical that they would split up that way over Nanoha's death, or that they would BAN MAGIC because Nanoha overused it and died. It just seems like a cheap plot device to me-- sorry to any fans of that particular doujin series. Just doesn't make any sense to me. All that to say I don't mind a serious Hayate-- she was pretty dead serious in StrikerS as it were, especially with unleashing Diabolic Emission like she did. It's not a big stretch that now she actually looks older and has commander experience under her belt. Pages! Yes, the prologue only had 8. Who knows how many the actual chapters will have; my guess is anywhere between 8 and 24 per month.