Character Discussion - Lelouch

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Though, one of the reasons for the massacres of japanese people was because he blamed the Japanese for Lelouch and Nunually's "deaths" during the war in Japan. Actually ironic really.

More ironies will come. Lulu has been "broken" momentarily before; I wouldn't mind him jumping into the abyss. I wouldn't say that he deserves it, just that it would be interesting to see what he'll do then.

[orangejuicetang]

Just thinking, since Clovis was apparently the one who admired Lelouch the most, it would have been so much easier for Lelouch to accomplish his goals by working with Clovis. or at least have been able to stop his massacres and make the protection of Nunually alot easier.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Just thinking, since Clovis was apparently the one who admired Lelouch the most, it would have been so much easier for Lelouch to accomplish his goals by working with Clovis. or at least have been able to stop his massacres and make the protection of Nunually alot easier.

Not necessarily. Admiration doesn't automatically make you a follower. Unfortunately we don't know enough about how Clovis viewed Britannia's philosophical grounds to know whether he would have joined Lelouch in mounting a revolution.

[orangejuicetang]

True, but I think he would have at least stopped massacring Japanese, and start some reforms, or pretty much everything short of revolution and open defiance.

[Major1138]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Just thinking, since Clovis was apparently the one who admired Lelouch the most, it would have been so much easier for Lelouch to accomplish his goals by working with Clovis. or at least have been able to stop his massacres and make the protection of Nunually alot easier.

Well the irony of it all is that in season 1, most of the Britannian nobility we saw in the series would have been sympathetic to Lelouch's quest to find out the truth of his mother's assassination. As you've said, despite their apparent rivalry, Clovis was fond of Lelouch and his family. Cornelia and Euphemia were as well, and as we know, Jeremiah would have likely pledged his loyalty to Lelouch had he known the truth.

Although the bigger irony (if you can call it that) to me is that Lelouch and Suzaku should really be in each other's shoes. Lelouch is the Britannian prince who should be wheeling and dealing within the Empire and willing to "play the game" so to speak to achieve his goals. Suzaku is the son of the last prime minister of Japan with uber combat skills who seems better suited to leading a guerrilla campaign to free his homeland.

[Velden]

Originally Posted by Major1138

Although the bigger irony (if you can call it that) to me is that Lelouch and Suzaku should really be in each other's shoes. Lelouch is the Britannian prince who should be wheeling and dealing within the Empire and willing to "play the game" so to speak to achieve his goals. Suzaku is the son of the last prime minister of Japan with uber combat skills who seems better suited to leading a guerrilla campaign to free his homeland.

I didn´t think it that way and you´re right, quite an irony...

[Claies]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

Just thinking, since Clovis was apparently the one who admired Lelouch the most, it would have been so much easier for Lelouch to accomplish his goals by working with Clovis. or at least have been able to stop his massacres and make the protection of Nunually alot easier.

I doubt Clovis would have been supportive. We don't know how much he believes in Britannian ideals, but I feel he wouldn't save Lelouch's back in any way if it jeopardizes his position as governor-general. Besides, the vi Britannians are exiled. They're not going to be publicly accepted anyway.

Plus, Lelouch probably prioritized against revealing himself to Britannia, which would have stopped short his grand plans of annihilating the social-darwinist system (which he had aspirations for years ago right after Japan was conquered). Given he was probably a naive idealist like many have said, he wouldn't want to lose that so soon. I doubt the royalty (look at Carline, Schneizel, and Odysseus) would be supportive of his original goals of sinking Britannian ideals. The best they'd do is investigate Marianne's murder, which so far has still failed.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Major1138

Although the bigger irony (if you can call it that) to me is that Lelouch and Suzaku should really be in each other's shoes. Lelouch is the Britannian prince who should be wheeling and dealing within the Empire and willing to "play the game" so to speak to achieve his goals. Suzaku is the son of the last prime minister of Japan with uber combat skills who seems better suited to leading a guerrilla campaign to free his homeland.

It's not so much ironic as intentional; what you just described was essentially Code Geass's original script back before it lost its primetime timeslot and had to have the script re-written.

The role reversal is to show what happens when everything is backwards.

[Major1138]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

It's not so much ironic as intentional; what you just described was essentially Code Geass's original script back before it lost its primetime timeslot and had to have the script re-written.

The role reversal is to show what happens when everything is backwards.

I did not know that was the original premise behind the show. I always thought the role reversal was intentional - I recall reading that the casting of Lelouch and Suzaku was done with that in mind.

Although I have noticed that both Lelouch and Suzaku seem to be growing into their current roles. I can't quite picture the Lelouch of season 1 thinking about getting the gang back together at Ashford to shoot off fireworks when it's all over, and even though it was obviously a ploy to get out of Japan and spare Nunnally from further bloodshed, I suspect Lelouch wasn't entirely acting when he said that what makes the Japanese people a nation isn't land or territory but a shared heart and culture.

As for Suzaku, vowing to change the system from the inside at any cost - even if it means selling out your former best friend, or do all kinds of bastardly things (Refrain and Kallen anyone? Although I wouldn't be surprised if his plan was something other than the obvious), sounds like something Lelouch would consider doing.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by Major1138

I did not know that was the original premise behind the show. I always thought the role reversal was intentional - I recall reading that the casting of Lelouch and Suzaku was done with that in mind.

Although I have noticed that both Lelouch and Suzaku seem to be growing into their current roles. I can't quite picture the Lelouch of season 1 thinking about getting the gang back together at Ashford to shoot off fireworks when it's all over, and even though it was obviously a ploy to get out of Japan and spare Nunnally from further bloodshed, I suspect Lelouch wasn't entirely acting when he said that what makes the Japanese people a nation isn't land or territory but a shared heart and culture.

As for Suzaku, vowing to change the system from the inside at any cost - even if it means selling out your former best friend, or do all kinds of bastardly things (Refrain and Kallen anyone? Although I wouldn't be surprised if his plan was something other than the obvious), sounds like something Lelouch would consider doing.

Yeah throughout history we always treated our enemies with respect and gave them perfect living conditions Lelouch pretty much betrayed Suzaku and everyone one of his friends trust by biding by another life and Kallen would of pretty much killed any of her friends if her secret would of gotten out so what makes them any better than Suzaku

[thedonkiluminati]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Yeah throughout history we always treated our enemies with respect and gave them perfect living conditions Lelouch pretty much betrayed Suzaku and everyone one of his friends trust by biding by another life and Kallen would of pretty much killed any of her friends if her secret would of gotten out so what makes them any better than Suzaku

You seem to have an issue when somebody says anything remotely negative about Suzaku. Futhermore he didn't say they were any better than Suzaku.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by thedonkiluminati

You seem to have an issue when somebody says anything remotely negative about Suzaku. Futhermore he didn't say they were any better than Suzaku.

What you fail to realize is how people are criticizing him due to him turning Lelouch in to the Emperor and the refrain incident with Kallen and you expect him to turn the other cheek just because they're friends, now that' incredible stupid if you know someone was involved with illegal activities that threaten peoples lives you would give them the benefit of the doubt, sure but if they continue (like he did with Kallen to drop ot of the order several times in S1) and if they don't you send them to justice, as far as I'm concern if Cornelia or Calares were still General Governor she would have been dead. But I guess a little Refrain is worse than death

[thedonkiluminati]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

What you fail to realize is how people are criticizing him due to him turning Lelouch in to the Emperor and the refrain incident with Kallen and you expect him to turn the other cheek just because they're friends, now that' incredible stupid if you know someone was involved with illegal activities that threaten peoples lives you would give them the benefit of the doubt, sure but if they continue (like he did with Kallen to drop ot of the order several times in S1) and if they don't you send them to justice, as far as I'm concern if Cornelia or Calares were still General Governor she would have been dead. But I guess a little Refrain is worse than death

Just because worse things could happen to Kallen doesn't mean giving her refrain isn't bad. It's ok for Suzaku to be criticized just it's ok for Lelouch to be.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

What you fail to realize is how people are criticizing him due to him turning Lelouch in to the Emperor and the refrain incident with Kallen and you expect him to turn the other cheek just because they're friends, now that' incredible stupid if you know someone was involved with illegal activities that threaten peoples lives you would give them the benefit of the doubt, sure but if they continue (like he did with Kallen to drop ot of the order several times in S1) and if they don't you send them to justice, as far as I'm concern if Cornelia or Calares were still General Governor she would have been dead. But I guess a little Refrain is worse than death

Depends on how far he takes it, really. And forcing someone to take drugs isn't soemthing to be taken lightly either. I can agree that in one aspect, Kallen has herself to blame for her situation: As Lelocuh says, only those who are prepared to get shoot may shoot, so in short, if you ain't prepared for the worst, don't do it. Still, does he really need to take it this far? As the situation looks, Kallen'd likely be imprisoned for life for her "crimes" as Britannia label them. Isn't that enough punishment for a "criminal" already? Why take it so far as to drugs/torture this way? I don't see a problem with Suzaku capturing Kallen or Lelouch, that's in accordance with his Lawful character, but if he goes as far as torture/drug usage for it, then that IS a minus/villain point for his character...

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Depends on how far he takes it, really. And forcing someone to take drugs isn't soemthing to be taken lightly either. I can agree that in one aspect, Kallen has herself to blame for her situation: As Lelocuh says, only those who are prepared to get shoot may shoot, so in short, if you ain't prepared for the worst, don't do it. Still, does he really need to take it this far? As the situation looks, Kallen'd likely be imprisoned for life for her "crimes" as Britannia label them. Isn't that enough punishment for a "criminal" already? Why take it so far as to drugs/torture this way? I don't see a problem with Suzaku capturing Kallen or Lelouch, that's in accordance with his Lawful character, but if he goes as far as torture/drug usage for it, then that IS a minus/villain point for his character...

Well the main point is that he hasn't drugged her yet but I see what your going I made a major facepalm when I saw that scene and just said come on Suzaku your pulling this mess again, didn't you learn anything from Shirley

[Hari Michiru]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Well the main point is that he hasn't drugged her yet but I see what your going I made a major facepalm when I saw that scene and just said come on Suzaku your pulling this mess again, didn't you learn anything from Shirley

I wanted to bitch slap him for suggesting that.

[Silver Soul]

Originally Posted by thedonkiluminati

Just because worse things could happen to Kallen doesn't mean giving her refrain isn't bad. It's ok for Suzaku to be criticized just it's ok for Lelouch to be.

So your saying massacring a potentially evil organization is better than drugging a wanted criminal (POW, terrorist, etc.) for information regarding their ring leader so he can bring him to justice and be at ease

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

Well the main point is that he hasn't drugged her yet but I see what your going I made a major facepalm when I saw that scene and just said come on Suzaku your pulling this mess again, didn't you learn anything from Shirley

True, he hasn't done so yet and I rather hope he doesn't - and not just because I like Kallen but also because I don't want to lose the respect I do have for Suzaku (FYI, I don't exactly agree with the way he does things and think he's overly optimistic/naive on that part - changing Britannia that's it -, but rest assured: I don't hate Suzaku... yet)

We're getting off-topic though (This is the Lelouch thread after all, not the Suzaku thread)...

[thedonkiluminati]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

So your saying massacring a potentially evil organization is better than drugging a wanted criminal (POW, terrorist, etc.) for information regarding their ring leader so he can bring him to justice and be at ease

Whoops, should say that it's ok for Suzaku to be criticized just as it's ok for Lelouch to be.

[yezhanquan]

Cross-posting from the Suzaku thread: I wonder how Lulu will feel if he sees a dead Nunnally being cradled by Suzaku after the nuke strike (if there is one)?