(L) Re:Creators

[ValvraveTruth]

The slight disappointed part, Magane is nowhere to be seen. The very least should have show us she is having vacation somewhere else.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

The most disappointed part? Magane is nowhere to be seen. The very least should have show us she is having vacation somewhere else.

this is because she get a spin off manga, about her traveling around japan.

[zztop]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

The most disappointed part? Magane is nowhere to be seen. The very least should have show us she is having vacation somewhere else.

Hiroe mentioned in last week's interview that Magane at the airport was her departure from the story.

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

this is because she get a spin off manga, about her traveling around japan.

More like travelling anywhere in the world.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I like this ending. There's no cheap resurrection of the heroes who sacrificed themselves. The Selesia, Aliceteria & Mamika that we know are truly dead, leaving only their fictional selves in various media without any IRL memory (unless the creators write it as such). Still, did I see a poster where they make a crossover with Mamika & Aliceteria in the last moments of the episode?

Also, they blatantly mentioned that the Festival's plot received a lot of criticism for the impromptu story afterwards (even after Magane's magic) but the event itself is still a major hit probably due to Altair fans, the sheer hype and its mega-crossover uniqueness. Also, Nakanogane admitted that all their planning did jack squat in beating Altair, but that doesn't mean just giving up and do nothing. That's just like how I've been repeatedly saying that "effort of the heroes" matter regardless of the result and outcome. I mean, Braveheart won an Oscar for Best Picture in 1996 not because the hero able to defeat the final enemy, but due to his various efforts (which unfortunately failed in the end) and him never giving up till the very end.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I like this ending. There's no cheap resurrection of the heroes who sacrificed themselves.

Also, they blatantly mentioned that the Festival's plot received a lot of criticism for the impromptu story afterwards (even after Magane's magic) but the event itself is still a major hit probably due to Altair fans, the sheer hype and its mega-crossover uniqueness. Also, Nakanogane admitted that all their planning did jack squat in beating Altair, but that doesn't mean just giving up and do nothing. That's just like how I've been repeatedly saying that "effort of the heroes" matter regardless of the result and outcome. I mean, Braveheart won an Oscar for Best Picture in 1996 not because the hero able to defeat the final enemy, but due to his various efforts (which unfortunately failed in the end) and him never giving up till the very end.

What are you on about? Did the hero gave Scotland to England to spare his own life? Because that's what Re:Creator did. Re:Creators surrenders to the enemy and gave her everything she wanted. It is the exact opposite of resisting.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I like this ending. There's no cheap resurrection of the heroes who sacrificed themselves.

Also, they blatantly mentioned that the Festival's plot received a lot of criticism for the impromptu story afterwards (even after Magane's magic) but the event itself is still a major hit probably due to Altair fans, the sheer hype and its mega-crossover uniqueness. Also, Nakanogane admitted that all their planning did jack squat in beating Altair, but that doesn't mean just giving up and do nothing. That's just like how I've been repeatedly saying that "effort of the heroes" matter regardless of the result and outcome. I mean, Braveheart won an Oscar for Best Picture in 1996 not because the hero able to defeat the final enemy, but due to his various efforts (which unfortunately failed in the end) and him never giving up till the very end.

honestly you can't compare braveheat with this serie, the plot was totally different and what happened too(not because magical and bla bla bla but how things where handed).

braveheart, he was against a "unfair domination from another country and tried to get free and failed because he get betrayed in the end.

here the villian turned to be the "hero" in the end, because the plot not was about they trying hard to save the day but altair step as the "main character"(tht was very clear), them you can't even say "the hero failed" since they not where the heroes but "sideline characters as they even called themselfs.

they where totally different.

[zztop]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What are you on about? Did the hero gave Scotland to England to spare his own life? Because that's what Re:Creator did. Re:Creators surrenders to the enemy and gave her everything she wanted. It is the exact opposite of resisting.

Perhaps, but also remember that at that point Altair established herself as the overpowered villian that cannot be bested physically, and this was accepted by the audience. Meaning the only other way to defeat her is to defeat her mentally - to take away her reason for fighting and make her stand down; the one thing she truly has no defense against - Setsuna herself.

PS. Mmm, okonomiyaki.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

What are you on about? Did the hero gave Scotland to England to spare his own life? Because that's what Re:Creator did. Re:Creators surrenders to the enemy and gave her everything she wanted. It is the exact opposite of resisting.

As far as I know, nobody gave the world to Altair to destroy. They just gave Altair what I call as the "absolute argument" (aka. Re-Setsuna) where she/it were able to make her stop her plan to destroy the world. And don't forget, that is not the real Setsuna that Altair got away with. The real Setsuna is still dead thanks to the bullies-driven suicide. So, no, they didn't give Altair "everything she wanted". Altair just made do with what she was given.

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

honestly you can't compare braveheat with this serie, the plot was totally different and what happened too(not because magical and bla bla bla but how things where handed).

braveheart, he was against a "unfair domination from another country and tried to get free and failed because he get betrayed in the end.

here the villian turned to be the "hero" in the end, because the plot not was about they trying hard to save the day but altair step as the "main character"(tht was very clear), them you can't even say "the hero failed" since they not where the heroes but "sideline characters as they even called themselfs.

they where totally different.

In Braveheart, the betrayal goes both ways in case you forgot.

But that's beside the point. My point is: the hero's efforts matter regardless of the outcome.

Don't agree with me? Then learn to deal with it and agree to disagree.

[drawr]

The ending just constantly lampshaded how underwhelming the resolution was. Starting with Mirokuji talking about their roles(with Hikayu's platitudes even though they were utterly useless), then ending with Nakanogane talking about how all the story they built up for over half the series was for nothing and how frustrating it was. Selesia and Alice's creators are rightfully upset when the "real" versions they actually knew died for nothing. And if the story did received so many criticisms they had to damage control why did that not affect the approval?

Also Magane is still around, and she is a serial killer who can take over the world. Altair can return at any time to endanger the world and no one would be able to stop her, especially with a powerless Meteora. And poor Blitz, he should have stayed behind instead of taking his chances with Suruga's whims.

[zztop]

Friendly reminder that Hiroe Rei said Re Creators' story was inspired by the 1993 Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Last Action Hero, which also featured action movie characters discovering the real world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Action_Hero

Originally Posted by drawr

And if the story did received so many criticisms they had to damage control why did that not affect the approval?

Magane used her reality-bending magic to bypass audience approval in the 1st place. Meaning the audience can disapprove Setsuna, but Setsuna can still appear as if she was accepted.

[wuhugm]

Just feel that it wasted the opportunity of romance with Meteora

[xizro345]

There's a really interesting interview with Aoki here - https://akiba-souken.com/article/31417/

- In reference to the part in the stadium in the last episode, he says that the fact that despite all the efforts the creations didn't match Altair even though the world is saved is a symbolic depiction of the harsh reality, where effort isn't always connected to result;

- He considers the show a metaphor of craftsmanship. He read the first draft (NAKED, basically) and suggested changes in order, adding and removing scenes to fit the series composition;

- He didn't suggest much regarding the characters, as he felt Hiroe's descriptions and background were enough. The staff worked on adding background on the series and the likes;

- While it has a metafictional structure, he doesn't think the series is truly metafiction;

- He was interested in the story of the characters;

- He mentions the concept of secondary creations that can spread thanks to sites like pixiv, nico, or Youtube;

- After hearing from Aniplex, he started thinking the overall duration of the series, starting from a 18-20 episode idea. Since it was a bit problematic to fit all the story after the recap, he increased it to 22 episodes. In the initial concept, episodes 21 and 22 were combined into one;

- It felt it was nice to close the story with a quiet episode, but it wasn't that easy to do, especially the second part. It took a lot of time to do the farewell scenes;

- At first he didn't really get Sota as a character. After discussing with Hiroe, he decided to disclose his relationship with Setsuna before the Festival;

- Looking at Sota, he sees a part of himself, especially when he feels its work is not up to par;

- He also mentions he didn't have a "mentor" figure while he took his first steps into directiong;

- As characters, he prefers Nakanogane and Matsubara, in Nakanogane he sees a lot of the hardships a director has to endure;

- He says he wanted to pour his experiences in this work, also adding he knows animation can't be 100% perfect, but he always tries his best;

- His favorite scenes come from episode 1, 8, 10 and scenes with Alice and Selesia in episode 19;

- He briefly discusses the "acceptance" mechanic, mentioning that even something that may be considered "interesting" can end up not accepted by the public, and that sometimes ends up in frustration for the creator. But that doesn't mean the blame should be put on the public;

- He jokes saying Hiroe writes outrageous things, but that's exactly what he wants.

Interview out: https://www.sunday-webry.com/events/...erview/22.html

- Hiroe says part of the production was hard, because he had to decide a lot of details by himself;

- It's mentioned that the ending is completely different from NAKED, then there's a blatant attempt at asking people to check it out to see the difference;

- They mention Meteora losing her powers, but also Magane. Hiroe says that even if Magane's power disappears, she'll keep going around doing what she wants and telling lies to people;

- The appearance of "Re CREATORS" in the end was decided from the beginning. Hiroe says it's a title with several meanings (previously discussed in the interviews).

[Sides]

So basically we just saw, was Meteora's novel made into an anime show ^_^
Why not?.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by xizro345

- He briefly discusses the "acceptance" mechanic, mentioning that even something that may be considered "interesting" can end up not accepted by the public, and that sometimes ends up in frustration for the creator. But that doesn't mean the blame should be put on the public;.

But that's what THEY DID! They made Altair invincible without any real explanation or justification, then blame the audience for it. Blaming the public is 100% what they actually did in the show itself. People died because of this.

[xizro345]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

But that's what THEY DID! They made Altair invincible without any real explanation or justification, then blame the audience for it. Blaming the public is 100% what they actually did in the show itself. People died because of this.

They actually did. They built the character setting idea then said - clearly, I may add - Altair had none, so it's completely justified being as OP as she was.

[Malicre]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Just feel that it wasted the opportunity of romance with Meteora

did u really want meteora ending up with souta? damn dude u must really hate meterora lol, souta was a shit mc.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by drawr

The ending just constantly lampshaded how underwhelming the resolution was. Starting with Mirokuji talking about their roles(with Hikayu's platitudes even though they were utterly useless), then ending with Nakanogane talking about how all the story they built up for over half the series was for nothing and how frustrating it was. Selesia and Alice's creators are rightfully upset when the "real" versions they actually knew died for nothing. And if the story did received so many criticisms they had to damage control why did that not affect the approval?

Also Magane is still around, and she is a serial killer who can take over the world. Altair can return at any time to endanger the world and no one would be able to stop her, especially with a powerless Meteora. And poor Blitz, he should have stayed behind instead of taking his chances with Suruga's whims.

She has since lost her power, due to the WORLD correcting her into a normal human being

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

In Braveheart, the betrayal goes both ways in case you forgot.

But that's beside the point. My point is: the hero's efforts matter regardless of the outcome.

Don't agree with me? Then learn to deal with it and agree to disagree.

but was in the final battle with the "betrayal matted more and even after his death, his effort was what helped later scotland get free his freedom, while here they death don't matted for the outcome, the whole battle was pointless all they needed in the end was just summon setsuna and boom happy end, they deaths and efforts only effected they series sales which increased and promotion of second seasons animes and spin offs, but for the real world they efforts where pointless they died and don't really achieved anything, they death don't donate to "weaken the enemie" or anything like that, they just get killed and where just the "sidelines characters.

and the most important braveheart got a oscar because unlike here he get a good plot and development and not was heavy criticized and was overal liked and well received while in the show, the end was heavy criticized, it was a hit inside the anime if we bring to "outside" it was a fail since was heavy criticized and not well on sales or in short it was a fail, due to final bad plot.

Originally Posted by xizro345

They actually did. They built the character setting idea then said - clearly, I may add - Altair had none, so it's completely justified being as OP as she was.

is exactly because she has none which this ended making the audience fault because was thanks to auddience "fake acceptance" which things turned on that way.

- It's mentioned that the ending is completely different from NAKED, then there's a blatant attempt at asking people to check it out to see the difference;

i would love to know how naked ended because i honestly can't see being worst than what they did here.

[magnuskn]

First off, xizro, you've been a treasure to this thread. Just wanted to say this one more time, before you move on. Many thanks for all your contributions. If you got one last link to all the translated recap mangas in you, when the one for ep 22 has also been translated, I'd really appreciate that.

Now, I was away on vacation for the last three episodes, hence I just binged them in one go. So this is my review for the entirety of the series.

Re:Creators had one of the best concepts for a series I have ever seen. I had been waiting for a show about this kind of story for years, and hence I was extremely happy to see it happen.

I am not 100% happy about the execution of the show, since I believe that a strong plot has to still be supported by strong character work to raise it from very good to extremely good. And in the department of character development is where Re:Creators mostly faltered (although a good argument can also be made that it was too heavily laced with exposition and did not balance all that exposition with action or character work).

The writers chose to focus more on concepts about writing and audience acceptance, and, IMO, did so at the detriment of tying the story together with more emotions. For people who wrote so extensively about audience acceptance, they seemed to have ignored some of their own concepts which they elabored on in the series.

Now, the part which seems to have stirred all that controversy I missed in the last weeks is of course that Altair was so OP that the efforts of the heroes amounted to nothing and they needed a hax magic move to overcome her. I agree that Team Meteora could have straight skipped to casting "Summon Setsuna!" without Selesia and Aliceteria dying. Hence the struggles of the heroes in episodes 19 and 20 were made pretty pointless. However, that doesn't invalidate the entire series, nor does it make it terrible in its totality.

Magane's magic and audience acceptance were clearly delineated in prior episodes, as such the hax magic move via pyrite stone is a McGuffin, not a Deus Ex Machina.

But enough about that. Episode 22 gave a great denoument for the series. I'd have liked to see Magane one more time, but reading that she'll get her own spin-off manga sounds great. I'll keep an eye out for it and I hope we'll see Sota and Meteora in it, too. Hmmm, can you say "love triangle"?

I actually would love to see most of the series the characters came from. Maybe some of them will have proven to be so popular as to get their own adaptations? Fingers crossed!

Re:Creators gets a 8,5/10 from me. Ten points for the story concepts, characters, great art and excellent music. One point deduced for a lack of deeper character development, one quarter point for making the struggle of the protagonists a bit pointless and another quarter point for not balancing the long exposition bits better. I highly recommended this show to all my anime interested friends and I will continue to do so. As far as shows go which I'd consider classics, I'll happily add this one to my list.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by xizro345

They actually did. They built the character setting idea then said - clearly, I may add - Altair had none, so it's completely justified being as OP as she was.

No, you missed the part where the in-universe fans want their favourite heroes to lose and die to someone who want to destroy the world and win.

And the script writer's twitter is right now filled with congratulatory messages about how wonderful the ending was. But just like the anime itself, the author had actually blocked EVERYONE who had complained about the faults of previous episodes, so the only ones left with a voice are people who liked it. Essentially just like the anime, the studio blocked everyone who dislike the show in order to congratulate themselves on what a wonderful job they did. All it takes is to ignore people who are angry.