[Manga] Chapter 356 Discussion

[Yondaime-The Fourth]

So I noticed something. Whenever it was disputed if the akatsuki were behind Naruto everyone was like OMG Naruto is gonna need this persons help or he cant even take one of them on. Now that you guys find out they were behind Sasuke every is suddenly confident that he can take both of them regardless of our knowledge of any of the threes powers as of now. It's funny all the Sasuke fans are crawling out of the woods.

[tkdtiger]

I have a theory of how Oro. is in Kabuto...maybe when Sasuke showed Kabuto how he defeated Oro that Oro. managed to skip into Kabuto...anyways it's just a theory...

[ChojinLocke]

I thought about the snake-form Sasuke defeated back at Oro-Sasuke. Maybe he kinda transplanted one of the eyes of the snake (the one remaining?!) to the other eye. Dunno if it makes any sense if that alone changes his personality but oh well..

[yinstro]

been awhile but looking like a good chapter again, and potential fro the future. Im thining kabuto used some of his science to incorporate oro, and it doesnt seem to be the same as what sasuke did. Its entirely possible hes just crazy qand put a dead mans eye in his head and is walking around claiming to be orochimaru, or maybe its an old experiment from long ago.... well time may tell, then again it may not


bout the whole art thing, you dont have to be an artist not to like something, but your evalutating stuff on different level than professionals. That said, ikf even teh average dude thinks your colors suck, then maybe your colors suck.

Comparing kishimoto to dali, is a bad idea, not cause dali is the man, but because the disciplines are totally different. you can say dali is better, but really hes doing something totally different, can he tell a story that makes sense with pictures? Is kishimoto using paint and dream like concepts to evoke feelings on a subconcious level? there is no point comparing them

[Soulnin]

Woa, even I didnt see that one coming! Orochimaru living fair enough but in Kabuto, now that was a genuine shock! Nice Chapter.

[xPresagio]

Well, that I didn't see coming.

That's probably what both Sasuke and Team Naruto said <removed for inaccuracy :P>
So, while waiting for a more through explanation (which hopefully will occur at some point -if the author fancies it) on what it's percolated in this chapter, let's see..

Spoiler:

*Apparently, it was true that neither Oro, nor Kabuto never truly expected that Sasuke would betray them, and of course didn't occur to them to have a 2nd plan/alternative, like a counter for the Uchiha's almighty (non-sharingan) genjutsu, even though they were full aware of it's existence and effectiveness.

*It seems that being in the "dark side", has actually softened Sasuke, to the point that he decides that is better to let Oro (or his essence) alive, after defeating it. -Too bad Naruto didn't receive such consideration, back when the whole arm of his best friend was introduced in his chest..

*Kabuto, the one that back on 1st part regretted to have been chosen by Orochimaru, now somehow decided to get his essence and introduce it in his own body, pretty much destroying his own "being" and turning into something else? Yah, that surely is compatible with the cautioness/analytic/unassuming demeanour shown by him until now...

*On the plus side, his tracking abilities now surpasses the one from Karin, as he apparently has been following -not Sasuke but- Naruto all the way to this place, far away from Konoha.

*Oh, and that, to give him a sort of bingo book of Akatsuki as gratitude for being pursued and also to help him find his own self. So, Naruto's please-find-the-light speech is so powerful that he doesn't need to actually give it! Now, that's a Kekkei Genkai.

*Naruto was almost killed by Kabuto a few years ago, and he has almost no reaction to such encounter!

Other thoughts:

>That bingo book may explain why team Heabi knows such things as Kakuzu's accounter location. Sasuke probably read it at some point before.

>Question: Who made the sort-of merge between Kabuto and Oro possible? Was it an initiative of the master, or was something that the student decided on his own? And was always part of his plan or just a moment of panic?

I really don't like (at all) the new "self". Because no matter whom predominates in that body now: we are losing a cool antagonist either way.

>>Not to mention that Sasuke apparently truly got away with everything he wanted - no repercussion or bad consequences.

>Tobi, I do like.

>Kabuto's scary face, I do like. -But his left (right) side gave me the impression of desperation and suffering. I too, sort of feel bad for him.

>Such event may, or may not, be explained due to the nature of the 8-tails, if one (or rather both) of them indeed was or had the Youma.

>Nonetheless, such person has now raised his bonus as a much larger and important enemy than Akatsuki. Far more. Not that I expected something else from the very beginning.

>Can't care less for the Sasuke-Deidara fight. I'm wondering about the other ones, though.

>What a way to steal the "thunder" from Hinata..

>It seems that Jiraya has now lost his partner for real.
The Sannin indeed are no more.

[UchihaJustin]

whoa nelly am i confused!!!! great chapter but hella confused.
first off, so is it Kabuto with Oro's essence? or did Oro use that "forbidden jutsu" on kabuto, cuz Oro's eye is on Kabuto's face so its really confusing. CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?!?!?!

Also, OMFG THAT WAS SO COOL WHEN SASUKE USES HIS SHARINGAN, SUMMONS A SNAKE TO PROTECT HIM FROM THE BLAST, AND STILL LOOKS LIKE NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!!!!!

Another thing i noticed is that Naruto really really really got super duper keen. Supposedly Hinata's team was the best team for scouting, yet Hinata and Naruto both sensed the prescence of Kabuto at the same time (or at least Naruto noticed it fairly quick)

[Sabaku Kyu]

A very surprising chapter. Another unexpected twist with Kabuto turning into the new Oro, I'll hand it to Kishi that his pacing may be slow at times but his writing has been anything but predictable lately.

The way Sasuke summoned a snake to block Deidara's blast just plain rocks. I would like to see Naruto start using his toad summoning ability like that.

Originally Posted by xPresagio

>Question: Who made the sort-of merge between Kabuto and Oro possible? Was it an initiative of the master, or was something that the student decided on his own? And was always part of his plan or just a moment of panic?

I really don't like (at all) the new "self". Because no matter whom predominates in that body now: we are losing a cool antagonist either way.

I don't think that Oro's spirit literally resides in Kabuto's body. I like MysticJay's suggestion that Kabuto underwent the same experiments that made Oro snake-like when he found out he died. It's possible Kabuto might've even spliced Oro's genes into himself like Shodai's genes were spliced into Yamato. If that's the case, his overall personality should remain intact. Judging by that grin though, Oro's death has probably taken a toll on his sanity.

[xPresagio]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I don't think that Oro's spirit literally resides in Kabuto's body.. If that's the case, his overall personality should remain intact. Judging by that grin though, Oro's death has probably taken a toll on his sanity.

Yes, it seems I jumped before time. After reading the whole chapter, the script does make more sense now.

I'm glad however that Hinata et all did manage to notice his pursuers on time.

I always wondered why Kabuto was shown interested on disposed bodies: Long time ago, he mentioned that always checked the previous corpses used by his master, but couldn't properly analyze them due to some odd sealing/restrictions. But it looks that this time he did manage to properly use the most recent body (in the bed), due to Oro's hasty escape.

It does however reaffirms the (odd) notion that he was indeed some sort of "Oro's bitch", rather than having a plan in the works. On the other hand, it also recaptures part of the feeling (back when he was about to kill Sasuke in the hospital) that he felt lonely for being considered "special", just like Naruto/Sasuke.


Not sure what to make of the body merging (since he also claim that Oro is dead) and what kind of benefits would bring to him if it's really just a physical union. Can't understand why his psique deteriorated to such level (as if he wasn't him, but rather a mix of both personalities), unless the "old blood" reference was true.

[Sazelyt]

We will never know what is going on in Kabuto's body, but he made an interesting comment that might lead us to one of the options as the more likely choice: being similar to Naruto and understanding Naruto better. There is no point to make such suggestions or put a great emphasis on that, if there is not any kind of spirit connection between them. Going with Naruto's case, Kyuubi's spirit is sealed within Naruto, so, it is possible that Kabuto has sealed Oro's spirit within him.

Of course, Kabuto going crazy and because of his madness, making unnecessary connections is another possibility.

[Ero-Senn1n]

The new Kabuto looked like he being a mad scientist. I mean he really looked like having mental issues in that last page of this chapter. His speech was cool and interesting, but the last page was strange. He looks pathetic now, not cool. Like someone who experimented on his own body, but nothing original, just the replica of Oro's look. It seems that Sasuke simply let him go away, and neither Kabuto nor Sasuke wanted to work together. I guess Sasuke was thinking that Kabuto is useless for his quest, however now it turns out that Kabuto has lot's of information that could have been very important for Sasuke. Anyway, it seems that Kabuto is really pathetic without having a master like Orochimaru or Sasori.

So was Kabuto's only role to give that book to Naruto and after that Kishimoto makes him disappear from the story?

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I guess Sasuke was thinking that Kabuto is useless for his quest, however now it turns out that Kabuto has lot's of information that could have been very important for Sasuke.

You made an interesting connection. Kabuto collecting information through Oro's organization, and Sasuke letting go of Kabuto because of not being aware of that information, makes it look like Sasuke does not have access to all the information Oro has, even if he has any access. So, the theory of Sasuke having access to Oro's mind has received a great hit in this last chapter...

The less likely possibility is Kabuto working behind Oro and collecting that information, but I doubt that is the case, considering how important Akatsuki is for Oro, the person Kabuto admires a lot...

[Kakosan]

I don't know... I have the feeling that Sasuke (maybe blind by his own power) has missed vital points here. I've never been a Sasuke-fan, but regardless of that I believe that this quest that he started is not going to end succesfully, i.e. by the time he reaches Itachi he will realize that the path that he chose was actually the wrong one.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Me too...i couldnt believe it. I thought it was a sick joke. But he was a real good person i think. I think that because they way he thinks or talks during the show made me feel that way about him.

Anyway...

Sick and weird chapter...and i like Yamato even more...he looks awesome.
Especially the way he looked at Kabuto. (Like he was thinking: Pff you again...as if Kabuto is a weakling)

Anyway Sasuke CAN summon (snakes)....

I have no idea what it means that Kabuto has an eye like Orochimaru. But i really pity the guy watching the last page. His look (with his smile) was terrible...makes me really pity the poor guy.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The new Kabuto looked like he being a mad scientist. I mean he really looked like having mental issues in that last page of this chapter. His speech was cool and interesting, but the last page was strange. He looks pathetic now, not cool. Like someone who experimented on his own body, but nothing original, just the replica of Oro's look. It seems that Sasuke simply let him go away, and neither Kabuto nor Sasuke wanted to work together. I guess Sasuke was thinking that Kabuto is useless for his quest, however now it turns out that Kabuto has lot's of information that could have been very important for Sasuke. Anyway, it seems that Kabuto is really pathetic without having a master like Orochimaru or Sasori.

So was Kabuto's only role to give that book to Naruto and after that Kishimoto makes him disappear from the story?

My points exactly...that face said it all....this guy has seriously lost it.
He has seriously mentally collapsed.

Originally Posted by dagr81

now how many more jetsues does sasuka have more than naruto

Actually this isnt a suprise. I like it but at the same time i'd like to see all the others preform more techniques. However...i think it's kind of stupid what happend. So Sasuke activated his Sharingan JUST in time (probably) and predicted that it would explode...and in that same split second he summoned the snake?? Quick thinking...

Originally Posted by ChojinLocke

I dont see any reason why he couldnt be able to do that if he has indeed made a contract in the scroll of summons..wasnt this how it went? not sure...anyways yeah if in theory he would be able to summon Manda then i dont see why in praxis he cant given that Naruto can already summon the king toad. Also since Sakura is Tsundade's apprentice .. yeah the slug (original huh?)

There is a question where Sasuke has that kind of amount of chakra. But he definetly holds the potential now to summon it. Whether he can already or cant summon him yet.

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

OK this chapter threw me for a loop.

1# How the hell did Orochimaru get inside of Kabuto? Or did Kabuto just go crazy and disfigure his face to make Oro a part of him?

2# The skin around his eye looked scared rather than Oro using Kabuto for a container.

3# I don't see how Oro could escape Sasuke's grasp so perhaps Kabuto has simply gone insane, experimenting on himself or god knows what.

4# Whatever it is I don't like it. Kabuto may have been a servant but he had such a unique personality, it's a shame to see him lose part of his will to Oro in whatever form. And that speech to Naruto was very lame.


5# Sakura's dog has picked up on the sent of Karin, that should be interesting. I can see those two now....


Sakura: Who are you and how do you know Sasuke?

Karin: Who the hell are you and how do YOU know about Sasuke-kun?

Karin: Sasuke and I are.....

Sakura: NANI?!!!! *Attacks her with super strength*


6# Sasuke, the typical badass that he is will take on two Akatsuki. At this point Deidara and Tobi are completely disposable but we'll see where Kishimoto goes with this.

7# Something tells me Karin will be pumped for info about their objective and Team "Hebi" will venture off alone in their pursuit of Itachi, while Naruto and Co. put their new found information to advantage.

I've edited your posts (# numbers) if you dont mind...makes it a bit easier for to comment on or answer them.

1# Surgery seems the most likely thing Kabuto was not around when it happened. And i doesnt seem like Orochimaru's soul was simply wandering around. It's definetly gotta be in Sasuke's body.
2# I agree
3# That is indeed very likely he lived for Orochimaru during his screentime..

4# That is true. There should be no more speculation about his loyalty anymore i think. The fact that either they have joined as 1 or he used surgery on his self with Orochimaru again in connection proves that he was really loyal to Orochimaru.

5# Ok this is something VERY interesting. I'll quote your text yet again since it is very important.

Sakura's dog has picked up on the sent of Karin, that should be interesting. I can see those two now....

It's not only about the scent but Karin should notice that she walks past a shinobi (forhead protector). Sakura should've noticed the people surrounding her and i think it was a shinobi kind of thing to sense stuff. And the chakra of others.

And actually the dogs should know EXACTLY who the person was.
Karin holds the same abilities (tracking stuff, sensing things) so i am quite positive she knows about Sakura now. (She couldnt have missed the ninja dogs either)

6# Yeah, you are right...that's typical Kishimoto. And this will prove Itachi's strenght aswell....that he can easily take on 2 Akatsuki Members...while Sasuke may struggle but for obvious reasons will succeed. Naruto will still be/seem the underdog compared to Sasuke.

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

I have a theory of how Oro. is in Kabuto...maybe when Sasuke showed Kabuto how he defeated Oro that Oro. managed to skip into Kabuto...anyways it's just a theory...

That's technically not possible because Kabuto was in several rooms away.
(since he didnt even hear or noticed the noise)
Pre-time skip several jounins sensed the Sound 4 WALKING hundreds of metres away while they barely made a sound.

Originally Posted by Soulnin

Woa, even I didnt see that one coming! Orochimaru living fair enough but in Kabuto, now that was a genuine shock! Nice Chapter.

Orochimaru lives on that's for sure....but now what the heck Kabuto?!
Unpredictable....good.

[nine_tailed_kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

The latest spoiler mentions about Kabuto having a snake style Oro eye? Is someone putting some strange stuff in Kishi's everyday drink?! Maybe, at the last moment, a part of Oro's spirit made a dimensional jump and from the dimension open a door to Kabuto's mind...smells like Darker than Black.

No way it would be like that !!

[Vicious108]

After Kabuto took off his glasses I was sort of wondering if he would also comb his hair to the back, now that would have been interesting.

But man, this arc is pretty awesome.

[Lendial]

lol followed by "sayonara shinigami."

i wanted to see sakura and karin fight over sasuke.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Kakosan

I don't know... I have the feeling that Sasuke (maybe blind by his own power) has missed vital points here. I've never been a Sasuke-fan, but regardless of that I believe that this quest that he started is not going to end succesfully, i.e. by the time he reaches Itachi he will realize that the path that he chose was actually the wrong one.

If it happens that Tobi is Obito as some say than the next part would be the best ones for him to make his entrance as Obito. I mean all this arc was about the greatness of sharingan and also about Itachi's and Sasuke's power. If it's Obito than he should have MS already, considering Kakashi has got it without the blood. In that case he may give a lesson to Sasuke after Sasuke has defeated Deidara or save Sasuke from Deidara using the MS power. I guess the possibility for this to happen is below 1%

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

That's technically not possible because Kabuto was in several rooms away.
(since he didnt even hear or noticed the noise)Pre-time skip several jounins sensed the Sound 4 WALKING hundreds of metres away while they barely made a sound.

I don't think it's completely impossible...Oro's body was in several rooms away...his soul may have been trapped by Sasuke within himself and that's how the transfer took place, but like I said it's only a theory...

[Amaiko]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

A very surprising chapter. Another unexpected twist with Kabuto turning into the new Oro, I'll hand it to Kishi that his pacing may be slow at times but his writing has been anything but predictable lately.

Too bad that he's been crapping over all his character and plot continuity in order to achieve these twists though. I really think that this chapter shows that Kishimoto is just pulling things out of his ass now, and doesn't give a damn if what he's currently writing outright contradicts or ignores what he's previously established as long as it's shocking.

And I'll join the ranks of those not happy with this latest development. Over and over, in both the manga and the databooks, Kishimoto had been hinting and insinuating that Kabuto was not entirely loyal to Orochimaru and he was still doing it as recently as the beginning of the Oro/Sasuke confrontation when he made it look as if Kabuto might have been the one attacking Orochimaru at first.

As xPresagio pointed out, Kabuto flat out said during his attempt on Sasuke at the hospital: "We were both unfortunate enough to catch Orochimaru's eye." Do those sound like the words of someone as completely and slavishly devoted to Orochimaru as the Kabuto of this chapter is portraying himself?

The Kabuto of 356 is so loyal and devoted to Orochimaru that he went nuts when he "died" (and this is another glaring contradiction--Kabuto himself stated that Orochimaru was not dead, merely absorbed into Sasuke in 346. So why is he all of a sudden claiming him as dead?) and is trying to remake himself in Orochimaru's image because he can't function without Orochimaru. Compare that with the Kabuto of earlier chapters, who called Orochimaru a monster, smirked when 4-tailed Naruto slammed him down with an attack, made jabs at Orochimaru's expense, mentally berated Orochimaru for cruelty when he taunted Tsunade about her loved ones' deaths, and so on and so on, and who has been basically been portrayed as someone who's thrown his lot in with Orochimaru for the time being, but was still definitely his own person and one who didn't always see eye to eye (hah) with his "master".

Now it's as if Kishi has taken a giant eraser and wiped out everything that was the Kabuto of previous chapters, leaving nothing but this crazed wreck behind. To suddenly portray Kabuto as being so obsessively devoted to Orochimaru that he simply collapsed mentally when Oro died completely contradicts the ambiguous character he's been building up for the last several years just so he can throw in a plot twist. This is a hallmark of bad, lazy, sloppy writing: he's twisting Kabuto's character to fit the plot instead of making sure the plot fits in around the character and I also have a feeling this is Kishimoto's way of wiggling out of explaining what exactly was going on with Kabuto's character. In place of dealing with all the mysteries that he himself built up around Kabuto, he had him go insane instead.

Now he's just Orochimaru 1.5 instead of Kabuto and I guarantee that his quick mention about never knowing close relatives, etc, is all the exposition we'll ever get on his character from now on. Kishimoto no longer has a calm, collected, ambiguous villian with a host of unexplained mysteries to deal with: instead, he has a stereotypical nutcase who is vastly simpler to deal with and write and I have a feeling that was the real motivation behind this particular plot development.