(L) Rinne no Lagrange: Flower declaration of your heart (seasons 1 & 2)

[Flower]

Finally caught up with ep 7 last night and was pleasantly surprised to see a reconciliation between Madoka and Mugi (and perhaps Lan and Mugi as well?) ... esp liked the fact that Madoka saw her own culpability in her well-intentioned "barreling ahead" in defense of Mugi's honor.

7/10 vote for ep 7 from me.

[Nerroth]

Originally Posted by Stevie_Nix

I actually wonder why she loves Orcas so much. Because people thing they are adorable but they really are the alpha predators of the sea? (Orca's favorite food, Great White shark livers.)

Not all of them; some of them stick to (smaller) fish.

I think it would be cool if part of the reason for her l-affinity towards orcas came from reading about the role they play in various indigenous cultures here on Earth; from the First Nations of the Pacific Northwest of North America (as shown in some of the most famous native art from the region) to the Ainu of Hokkaido (who traditionally associated the orca with Repun-Kamuy, the god of the sea).


As an aside, I'm surprised no-one has started a social group for this series yet...

[Haak]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Not really moved on. Remember that scene where she got punched in the face for stealing apples?

Villa returned to the shack battered and bruised but he brought her an apple. He got into a fight and got beat up for her. It showed that Villa would do anything for her Remember when she tripped? He stopped... symbolizing he would never leave her behind.

Basically, Villa is totally selfless and some sort of romantic hero. This explains why the chicks obsess over him. Deposed alien prince that lives the romantic life of a space pirate similar to Han Solo.

Villa had it all. But he was stabbed in the back and left to die. Muginami was one of the "rats" of the galaxy... a street urchin on a prison planet. She who had nothing shared the meager amount of food she had with him... an apple core.

Muginami got beat up stealing apples to feed him. Villa probably followed her and saw her getting beaten. This is when he got into his own fight to get her an apple for herself.

The apple is supposed to symbolize the life Villa wants for her to have on Earth.

Admittedly this is an interpretation that I'd like to believe since Villa was quite the cool guy in Muginami's flashbacks, and I also believe Villa did what he did for Muginami's sake meaning that Muginami actually leaving behind that bond would be pretty sad.

But I'm not entirely convinced. It was Muginami that first offered the apple to Villa, which in my opinion established the bond. Her getting more apples in the face of danger would represent a growing bond and Villa getting an apple for her would represent him reciprocating that bond. Additonally Muginami gave a good long thoughtful look at the apple before taking it, and left it behind after she had finally let go of her past and allowed herself to become friends with Madoka and Lan, so I could only interpret apple on the beach as something she's left behind both literally and symbolically, since this episode was all about Muginami consciously changing and the aplle symbolising Villa’s wish wouldn’t be symbolising a conscious change.

Also, this anime clearly isn't kind to the male sex so I don't think it's beyond this story to make leaving behind a bond that doesn't deserve to be left behind, a good thing.

[Stevie_Nix]

Originally Posted by Flower

Finally caught up with ep 7 last night and was pleasantly surprised to see a reconciliation between Madoka and Mugi (and perhaps Lan and Mugi as well?) ... esp liked the fact that Madoka saw her own culpability in her well-intentioned "barreling ahead" in defense of Mugi's honor.

7/10 vote for ep 7 from me.

The only real fault I can find with Madoka's actions was when she lost her cool at the very end and started to actually use physical violence against Muginami. That said I am glad once she and Muginami actualy talked, and while I doubt Madoka will agree with her wanting to protect him, especially after Villa shot at her, they both understand why the other acted. Muginami was still in shock from being basically thrown away via her only family, and Madoka could not let that slide. Actually I think part of the reasons why everything happened the way it did was events just moved to fast for Madoka and Muginami to have time to talk before they did.

While maybe the relationship Lan and Muginami have is not quite at the level they each have with Madoka, I feel that really both want to be at least friends. Hell Muginami did initially say back when she was still hoping to join Villa, that she wanted to be friends with Lan while they still can. I think the reason why Lan chased after Muginami wasn't just because her disapearing would hurt the one she cares for, I think she really does want to be close to Muginami. Hell I kind of get the feeling that Lan really started to warm up to Muginami after she told Madoka and Lan about her deception.

I think 8 out of 10 for me. I think it would have at least been a 9 if the Yuri was even more overt.

Originally Posted by Nerroth

Not all of them; some of them stick to (smaller) fish.

I think they will eat what ever they can find, but you have to admit the fact that Ocras can and will rip the livers out of sharks is scary awsome.

Originally Posted by Nerroth

I think it would be cool if part of the reason for her l-affinity towards orcas came from reading about the role they play in various indigenous cultures here on Earth; from the First Nations of the Pacific Northwest of North America (as shown in some of the most famous native art from the region) to the Ainu of Hokkaido (who traditionally associated the orca with Repun-Kamuy, the god of the sea).

I see what you did there.

That would be an extremely cool story development. Thanks for the links by the way.

Originally Posted by Nerroth

As an aside, I'm surprised no-one has started a social group for this series yet...

Well maybe that is your cue to start one.

[mechalord]

Originally Posted by Haak

Admittedly this is an interpretation that I'd like to believe since Villa was quite the cool guy in Muginami's flashbacks, and I also believe Villa did what he did for Muginami's sake meaning that Muginami actually leaving behind that bond would be pretty sad.

But I'm not entirely convinced. It was Muginami that first offered the apple to Villa, which in my opinion established the bond. Her getting more apples in the face of danger would represent a growing bond and Villa getting an apple for her would represent him reciprocating that bond. Additonally Muginami gave a good long thoughtful look at the apple before taking it, and left it behind after she had finally let go of her past and allowed herself to become friends with Madoka and Lan, so I could only interpret apple on the beach as something she's left behind both literally and symbolically, since this episode was all about Muginami consciously changing and the aplle symbolising Villa’s wish wouldn’t be symbolising a conscious change.

Also, this anime clearly isn't kind to the male sex so I don't think it's beyond this story to make leaving behind a bond that doesn't deserve to be left behind, a good thing.

The bond comes from the random act of kindness that the one time prince was given by someone who had nothing. Villa was a prince, heir to a grand Empire. He hit rock bottom, left for dead, his old life gone. Here comes an abandoned or orphaned street urchin who takes pity on him and gives him half of what she owns, half her life, half her food to him, a total stranger in need. Half an apple core meant a lot to him.

This same orphan then gets beat up trying to steal food for him to eat.

Villa experiences all of this and is moved.

The one time prince then swallows his pride and gets into a fight stealing an apple for this girl... in order to repay her for her kindness.

Muginami gave him the strength to start his quest against the bad guys. Villa would do anything for her... stuff his pride, kill, even shun her for her own good. When he was lying the beach, he was lifeless. Muginami gave him a reason to fight.

Lan's memory of Villa paints him as a very sensitive, empathetic person. Put everything together... sounds like the origins of a romantic hero.


The apple is supposed to be the life she is supposed to have on Earth. She understands that by shunning her Villa is trying to force her to stay on Earth, repay her... give her the life he can't give her. The apple is on her breakfast tray at the Pharos infirmary. It was there when she woke up. She didn't ask for it, but it, or steal it... it was given to her.

By leaving the apple behind, it means she doesn't accept Villa's payment... that she still wishes to reconcile with her friend. She's staying on Earth not because of Villa or circumstance... it's because she wants to.

Remember, when Villa stole the apple for Muginami and offered it to her... she didn't take it, she hugged Villa instead because it was the first time anyone cared about her.

No apples were eaten during the entire episode... only half an apple core.

The story isn't unkind to males. Madoka's uncle and the Pharos' commander are very kind to the ladies.

Madoka's uncle is a big goofball and let's Madoka run the house. He now has to put up with three hyper chicks. Madoka's uncle and Villa share a lot of traits in common... as noted by Madoka. Madoka thinks extremely highly of her uncle.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by mechalord

The apple is supposed to be the life she is supposed to have on Earth. She understands that by shunning her Villa is trying to force her to stay on Earth, repay her... give her the life he can't give her. The apple is on her breakfast tray at the Pharos infirmary. It was there when she woke up. She didn't ask for it, but it, or steal it... it was given to her.

By leaving the apple behind, it means she doesn't accept Villa's payment... that she still wishes to reconcile with her friend. She's staying on Earth not because of Villa or circumstance... it's because she wants to.

I don't think there's any hint that Muginami is consciously aware of Villa's efforts to make her stay at Earth (assuming that was Villa's reason), and if that's what the apple meant to her then I don't understand why she would take it (and thus accept Villa's wish) whilst at the same time leave Madoka.

The story isn't unkind to males. Madoka's uncle and the Pharos' commander are very kind to the ladies.

Both of which had their emasculation scenes.

[Nerroth]

Originally Posted by Stevie_Nix

Well maybe that is your cue to start one.

I already started one up for Mouretsu Pirates, so I didn't want to get too greedy...

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by mechalord

The bond comes from the random act of kindness that the one time prince was given by someone who had nothing. Villa was a prince, heir to a grand Empire. He hit rock bottom, left for dead, his old life gone. Here comes an abandoned or orphaned street urchin who takes pity on him and gives him half of what she owns, half her life, half her food to him, a total stranger in need. Half an apple core meant a lot to him.

This same orphan then gets beat up trying to steal food for him to eat.

Villa experiences all of this and is moved.

The one time prince then swallows his pride and gets into a fight stealing an apple for this girl... in order to repay her for her kindness.

Muginami gave him the strength to start his quest against the bad guys. Villa would do anything for her... stuff his pride, kill, even shun her for her own good. When he was lying the beach, he was lifeless. Muginami gave him a reason to fight.

Lan's memory of Villa paints him as a very sensitive, empathetic person. Put everything together... sounds like the origins of a romantic hero.


The apple is supposed to be the life she is supposed to have on Earth. She understands that by shunning her Villa is trying to force her to stay on Earth, repay her... give her the life he can't give her. The apple is on her breakfast tray at the Pharos infirmary. It was there when she woke up. She didn't ask for it, but it, or steal it... it was given to her.

By leaving the apple behind, it means she doesn't accept Villa's payment... that she still wishes to reconcile with her friend. She's staying on Earth not because of Villa or circumstance... it's because she wants to.

Remember, when Villa stole the apple for Muginami and offered it to her... she didn't take it, she hugged Villa instead because it was the first time anyone cared about her.

No apples were eaten during the entire episode... only half an apple core.

The story isn't unkind to males. Madoka's uncle and the Pharos' commander are very kind to the ladies.

Madoka's uncle is a big goofball and let's Madoka run the house. He now has to put up with three hyper chicks. Madoka's uncle and Villa share a lot of traits in common... as noted by Madoka. Madoka thinks extremely highly of her uncle.

I don't actually think that the anime is trying to be all that meaningful/pretentious with the apple symbolism but some of the stuff you've written is starting to convince me here. What does it mean that Muginami left the apple behind, what does it mean that Muginami found her new family, by the same place where she originally met Villagiulio, by the ocean?

(Aside from that, I do think Villagiulio comes off as a romantic hero, possessed by a great sense of sensitivity towards the world/empathy. The murky intentions/meanings behind his current actions are really quite engaging/fascinating. While I do think Villagiulio feels a deep empathy for Muginami, however, I don't necessarily think his actions now are driven by her good. Muginami was the one who gave Villagiulio the will to stand back up after he fell into the deepest realm of despair. However, having risen again, Villagiulio might be faced with concerns greater than the life of one girl as he returns to meet the forces which shaped his destiny.)

Back to the apple. By the end of the episode, when we see the full round apple gently rolling with the waves, I can't help but think that it symbolizes Muginami herself. The healthy fullness, and Muginami's newfound joy, stand in contrast to her impoverishment and the bare apple core of Muginami's flashback to the past. This is the key connection I guess.

If we take the full round apple to symbolize Muginami's happy life, then like you mentioned, Villagiulio was the one to first give it to her. Following her waking up on the Novamundus boat, she has the chance to receive an apple again. I hypothesize that Muginami leaving the apple at the ocean corresponds with Muginami's later decision to run away and leave her life with Madoka. However, in the end Muginami is convinced to stay--and this is when we see the apple again. So perhaps the significance we were supposed to understand there is that the apple returned to shore, and wasn't washed away by the ocean.

Villagiulio spends this episode thinking over an apple as well. So I suppose it's obvious that Villagiulio does want a good life for Muginami. However, we ultimately don't see what he finally does with it (I think)...because Villagiulio does have other concerns which may force him into conflict with it. With regards to Villagiulio's shot at Muginami in the previous episode, I do think that at that time he had fully intended to let Muginami die.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

K This still does not explain firing a deathray at her.

Is it really that hard to understand Villa doesn't want Mugi in Kiss anymore. I'm betting he wanted Mugi to join Madoka and Lan because I think he wants something better for Mugi and a life with the two is more preferable than a life as a member of Kiss. Also as a pilot of a Vox she has a bigger responsibility and being a member of Kiss might add more burden to her.

Cutting ties and leaving her with better options. And he didn't really aim at her: he just fired a warning shot.

[fulingyu]

I realize that I'm in the minority here since so many people are trying to make a romantic hero out of Villa, but sorry I just don't see it.

One of the biggest problems is that a lot of posters keep talking about how Villa wanted Mugi to stay on earth and have a better life with Madoka. Yet, there is no solid credible evidence for this. Sure there are inferences and suggestions that maybe he might have that in mind. But it is all supposition and hypothesis. Yes, I realize that Villa is not going to come right out and say to Mugi "Look, we've had a hard life together and it would be better for you not to be in Kiss. Stay here and be a Jersey Girl and have a good life".

But there is really nothing to even HINT at this from his words and actions. He hasn't talked to Mugi since he gave her the Darth Vader interogation treatment. His words were biting and hurtful. Some have said that this was a big act. Possible. But his physical violence went beyond that. Maybe it was his true anger coming out that Mugi had acted on her own and ruined his plans?

Even after he shot at her and Mugi defends him from Madoka, Villa says nothing to anyone. He just lets things play out.

The only time that I can see him wanting a better life for Mugi is when he holds out his hand for her as they escape U-go.

Others have stated that Villa wanted her to stay on earth. Well, he did cast her aside calling her a parasite and literally useless to him as he abandoned her on earth. And he did try to "plant" her at the bottom of the ocean with that BFG.

Speaking of which, many seem to be trying to gloss over his attempt to kill her. One says that it was all a big act. Who was he acting for? He was alone in his mech, didn't communicate with any one, calmly and deliberately pointed his gun at Mugi. He wasn't acting for Madoka or Lan, they were already involved in combat. Acting for Mugi? He was saying "This is goodbye" as he pulled the trigger. Acting for himself, maybe? Although, I don't know why he would do that.

Someone said that the Vox is pretty strong and could probably withstand the blast. Well we didn't get a chance to find out since Lan threw his aim off. Remember that Madoka's vox shut down under repeated attacks from Kirius in her second battle. Besides, Villa told Lan to tell Moid to destroy all the voids in Pharos or he would do it himself. While they may take a lot of damage, they probably could be destroyed.

And finally someone said the most lame excuse yet - "he didn't really aim at her: he just fired a warning shot. ." Were we watching the same show? Villa had Mugi smack in the middle of his cross hairs. I don't know of too many warning shots that go straight through the person you're trying to warn. Besides he gave her NO warning, verbal or otherwise to stay away. Just point and shoot.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here. If you want to cling to these excuses, feel free to enjoy yourself. But they really are all pretty weak excuses in light of his actions. Villa was calm, deliberate, focused, and seriously tried to kill Mugi.

That is another reason why I can't accept Villa as a romantic hero. We don't know the reasons why he tried to kill her, but he did try to kill her. Without more back story or reasons why, I can't join the bandwagon.

Now I'm not a Villa hater. I enjoyed seeing how his relationship with Mugi began and could see how she would become attached to him. But, Villa is a complex character. With all that he went through with Mugi, there better be a good reason for his deliberate actions.

Even Lan said that he wasn't always like that. What changed him? Was it bitterness over being banished to U-go? Was he concerned about the Legend surrounding the Voxes? Or was he really trying to get rid of Mugi?

Hopefully, we'll find some answers in the upcoming episodes.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by djmaca

And he didn't really aim at her: he just fired a warning shot.

"this is goodbye" is not the kind of thing you say before firing a warning shot

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by totoum

"this is goodbye" is not the kind of thing you say before firing a warning shot

"This is goodbye" as in "Please get it in your airheaded brain that I want you to have a better life, which you deserve. I'm gonna fire a warning shot so it will stick. I don't care if you hate me or not, but as long as you don't follow me and call me 'Villa-oniichan <3' anymore, I will be happy for you."

Besides, what's the sense for him to kill her. She practically saved his life.

[Shimapan]

Originally Posted by mechalord

I think it goes more like this... possible timeline.

- Le Garite and Demetrio are allies.
- Lan is princess of Le Garite, Delmizide(?) is prince of Le Garite (Lan's brother), Villa is prince of Demetrio
- Delzimide and Villa are friends. Villa is probably Lan's fiance. Del and Villa are supposed to bring peace to the galaxy.
- Del betrays Villa... sets him up.
...

Now why did you suddenly pull some mysterious brother out of thin air?
There wasn't any brother mentioned so far. That smells like Novel stuff, and as such, it has no place here.

Originally Posted by mechalord

- Villa never wanted Muginami to fight. She is his reason for fighting. Never wanted her to be involved because of her screwed up life. Wants her to quit and live a normal life.

Totally ludicrous and far fetched. Wanting and trying to kill her is certainly *not* the reaction of someone who supposely wants to protect her and doesn't want her to fight. Among the other things I've already written, it can also be the action of someone who wants to get rid of his "good guy" past, and who sees Muginami as an obstacle to that and thus wants to kill her.

Originally Posted by fulingyu

Honestly, there must have been some major change in Villa along the way. Hopefully we'll see it soon.

Yes. As I see it, he somehow ended up on that U-Go prison planet in young years, while still being a good guy. Mugi found him, and the two shared a lot. Then they escape together.

Some time later, Villa somehow turns form a good guy into a bad guy. He might have continued the good guy facade for a while, but when found out, he was kicked out from the royal family. He kept the good guy facade for Mugi and took her with him. Maybe Mugi somehow noticed the change, but refused to see it or belive it and was still clinging to his good guy image.

Whatever happened to Villa, this much is pretty certain:
- He was a good guy first, otherwise he wouldn't have helped Mugi get out of that hellish prison planet.
- Lan also confirms that he was a good guy in earlier times.
- Some significant change happened to him, turning him into a bad guy.
- He is a bad guy now who doesn't give a damn for Mugi anymore, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to kill Mugi, especially without any reason - she wasn't attacking him or anything, she could barely fly the Vox. Villa just wanted to kill Mugi out of sheer malice.

Originally Posted by djmaca

Cutting ties and leaving her with better options. And he didn't really aim at her: he just fired a warning shot.

Geez... you must be blind and deaf for such a conclusion. He *did* aim properly at her, and he *did* have the clear intent to kill her, as confirmed by his "This is goodbye!".
If his aim wouldn't have been thrown off at the last moment, he probably would even have succeeded at killing her.

Originally Posted by fulingyu

I realize that I'm in the minority here since so many people are trying to make a romantic hero out of Villa, but sorry I just don't see it.

One of the biggest problems is that a lot of posters keep talking about how Villa wanted Mugi to stay on earth and have a better life with Madoka. Yet, there is no solid credible evidence for this. Sure there are inferences and suggestions that maybe he might have that in mind. But it is all supposition and hypothesis. Yes, I realize that Villa is not going to come right out and say to Mugi "Look, we've had a hard life together and it would be better for you not to be in Kiss. Stay here and be a Jersey Girl and have a good life".

But there is really nothing to even HINT at this from his words and actions. He hasn't talked to Mugi since he gave her the Darth Vader interogation treatment. His words were biting and hurtful. Some have said that this was a big act. Possible. But his physical violence went beyond that. Maybe it was his true anger coming out that Mugi had acted on her own and ruined his plans?

...

Good to finally see someone else who doesn't want to turn Villa into some sort of hero, no matter the cost, even if his actions (his hurtful dumping of Mugi and his calm, deliberate attempt to kill her) obviously speak quite a different language.

Originally Posted by djmaca

Besides, what's the sense for him to kill her. She practically saved his life.

That was many, many years ago. He apparently changed significantly in the meantime, by whatever cause, from a good guy to a bad guy who doesn't care at all for Mugi anymore and wants to kill her to get rid of his previous good guy life.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by djmaca

"This is goodbye" as in "Please get it in your airheaded brain that I want you to have a better life, which you deserve. I'm gonna fire a warning shot so it will stick. I don't care if you hate me or not, but as long as you don't follow me and call me 'Villa-oniichan <3' anymore, I will be happy for you."

Besides, what's the sense for him to kill her. She practically saved his life.

Call me foolish if you want but I'll be upset at the writers if it indeeds means that,a line like "you never learn do you?" would make that come across much more clearly.To me it just sounds like you're trying to twist his words to fit your theory.
I'm willing to accept that his rant was a bit of an act but I definitly think he tried to kill her but it was nothing personal,it just so happens she's a vox pilote now.

Originally Posted by Shimapan

Now why did you suddenly pull some mysterious brother out of thin air?

That brother has been metioned in the anime,once during Lan's flashback scene in episode 5 and we know he's still alive since Lan mentioned him again this episode.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Shimapan

Now why did you suddenly pull some mysterious brother out of thin air?
There wasn't any brother mentioned so far. That smells like Novel stuff, and as such, it has no place here.

Except it isn't novel stuff Rinne no Lagrange is a complete original work with the only other medium being a prequel manga...

Lan indeed dose have an older brother he was mentioned twice in the anime and has his one character profile one the official website we just don't have an accurate translation of his name at the moment.

1. During episode 5 When Lan had her flashback/dream when she was talking to a young Villagiulio

2. During the this current episode when she said her bother would be mad if he saw her covered in eel...

[Shimapan]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Except it isn't novel stuff Rinne no Lagrange is a complete original work with the only other medium being a prequel manga...

Lan indeed dose have an older brother he was mentioned twice in the anime and has his one character profile one the official website we just don't have an accurate translation of his name at the moment.

1. During episode 5 When Lan had her flashback/dream when she was talking to a young Villagiulio

2. During the this current episode when she said her bother would be mad if he saw her covered in eel...

So he was once there as a static background object, and once mentioned in some random sentence about eels XD

That amounts to nothing and is clearly not enough to make up some wild fantasies in which this brother - about which whe know absolutely nothing, except that he doesn't seems to like eels - suddenly is turned into the bad guy who framed the oh so pure, innocent Villa. That's still ludicrously far fetched

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Shimapan

So he was once there as a static background object, and once mentioned in some random sentence about eels XD

That amounts to nothing and is clearly not enough to make up some wild fantasies in which this brother - about which whe know absolutely nothing, except that he doesn't seems to like eels - suddenly is turned into the bad guy who framed the oh so pure, innocent Villa. That's still ludicrously far fetched

I'm not saying he framed Villagiulio because obviously we don't know much about his role (if any at all) in what happened to Villagiulio. I'm saying he does indeed exist because you made it seem like he was made up.

Here is his profile http://lag-rin.com/chara_23.html

[fulingyu]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Except it isn't novel stuff Rinne no Lagrange is a complete original work with the only other medium being a prequel manga...

Lan indeed dose have an older brother he was mentioned twice in the anime and has his one character profile one the official website we just don't have an accurate translation of his name at the moment.

1. During episode 5 When Lan had her flashback/dream when she was talking to a young Villagiulio

2. During the this current episode when she said her bother would be mad if he saw her covered in eel...

Yes, Lan does have a brother, but I don't recall anywhere it being stated that her brother betrayed Villa. Is that a true fact or another supposition by the Villa shippers? If it's true, I'd like to know. Might help to clear up some of his motives.

When Lan wakes up from her flashback/dream, she says to herself "why did I think of my enemy now?" There were really only two people mentioned in Lan's dream (beside herself of course) - Villa and her brother.

She probably didn't mean her brother if she was worried about what he would think of her playing ecchi with eels. So early on Villa was considered an enemy. This is confirmed when Lan finds out that Villa is Mugi's onii-chan. She keeps calling them the enemy in front of Madoka.

Originally Posted by Shimapan

Good to finally see someone else who doesn't want to turn Villa into some sort of hero, no matter the cost, even if his actions (his hurtful dumping of Mugi and his calm, deliberate attempt to kill her) obviously speak quite a different language.

It's not necessarily that I don't want to turn Villa into some sort of hero. As I stated in earlier posts is that he is a complex character who has some "splanin" to do about his actions.

Actually, I'm more puzzled why so many OTHERS are trying to turn Villa into a hero in spite of his actions in trying to kill Mugi and with so little evidence for actually BEING a hero.

I mean just look at all these posts with people believing that Villa wanted true happiness and a good better life for Mugi and that he is willing to send her away to be with Madoka and away from the criminal life with Kiss and blah blah yadda yadda etc etc.

As I pointed out earlier, Villa hasn't even spoken to Mugi since he dumped her. The only time that the two have met since then, he tried to kill her. And even when Mugi defends him from Madoka, he doesn't say anything at all. No remorse, no second thoughts. Just silence.

We see him staring at the earth while eating an apple. Obviously he's thinking but we don't know just WHAT he is thinking. Having second thoughts about trying to kill Mugi? We don't know. Planning his next line of attack? We don't know. Wishing the best for Mugi after trying to kill her? We don't know. Wondering what he's going to eat for dinner? We don't know.

But many people feel that somehow Villa only wants warm fuzzy puppies and bunnies for Mugi in spite of his actions. Is Villa somehow telepathing these well wishes for a better life directly to Mugi since they aren't talking?

Now I don't deny that forums are great for theories and dreams we'd like to see. Others want to make Villa a hero. That's fine. Me, I can't until I see his character more.

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Shimapan

Geez... you must be blind and deaf for such a conclusion. He *did* aim properly at her, and he *did* have the clear intent to kill her, as confirmed by his "This is goodbye!".
If his aim wouldn't have been thrown off at the last moment, he probably would even have succeeded at killing her.

That was many, many years ago. He apparently changed significantly in the meantime, by whatever cause, from a good guy to a bad guy who doesn't care at all for Mugi anymore and wants to kill her to get rid of his previous good guy life.

Originally Posted by totoum

Call me foolish if you want but I'll be upset at the writers if it indeeds means that,a line like "you never learn do you?" would make that come across much more clearly.To me it just sounds like you're trying to twist his words to fit your theory.
I'm willing to accept that his rant was a bit of an act but I definitly think he tried to kill her but it was nothing personal,it just so happens she's a vox pilote now.

I'm going to call this: The reason you guys hate him is just because you guys took the bait, face value, just like Madoka. Didn't you see Villa's pained look when he left the restaurant two episodes prior?

I'm going to say this: I give Villa the benefit of the doubt because of some factors:

1. Mugi saved his life. If he were a prince then he should know the meaning of this. You can never do anything like shooting the person who saved your life.

2. Kiss' real intention. We still don't know what is it that they're after. He didn't show the same contempt to Madoka and Lan that he showed Mugi during the scene in the restaurant so we can factor out that he hates Vox pilots and thus that the reason he shot at Mugi was because she is now a Vox pilot can now be chucked off as well.

3. Villa himself doesn't show any sign of being evil. Even when he was still in U-go(?) planet, if he was bad, then that flashback of Mugi where he offered his hand to her is a complete lie.

This is a cliche(yes it is, no one can deny that) that has existed in anime for years. I give him the benefit of the doubt because I see signs similar to how this ploy has been enacted to how Villa acted.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by djmaca

I'm going to call this: The reason you guys hate him

I never said I hated the guy!I think this anime has no good vs evil so far,just two different sides fighting each other.
I wish this anime will pull of some great shades of grey where we're given a great tragic reason for him having to fight against Mugi even if deep down he doesn't want to.

In the end it seems I'm even more willing to give him the benifit of the doubt that you do,because I'm still willing to give him that benefit despite thinking he tried to kill Mugi.