Honkai Star Rail

[Diluc]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As for the gameplay, while still leaning on the easier side of things, the puzzle and map navigations didn't overstay their welcome. They were thematically nice and intuitive to grasp in my case. [/spoiler]
Honestly, I just hope they will deliver 2.1 in the same fashion. Last thing this game needs is 2.1 to be similar to Inazuma 2.1 patch.

Damn you are activating my ptsd now

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for 2.0 Impressions, full spoilers:

At the moment, I'm sure the vast majority of the fanbase didn't fell for her "death" considering how it was framed.

Spoiler for 2.0 Story Spoilers:

Heh - you would think! But obviously there's a big discrepancy in the audience about people's "media literacy" here. I definitely think the fact the clichés were played on the nose to such an extent was another strong hint -- not least of which is because they didn't even deal with her "Key-like cancer" yet! (This reference is so true... that whole sequence is ripped straight out of a Key VN almost beat-for-beat. These people are such otaku that it hurts sometimes... )

I also think they riled up a lot of people up by parading the author famous for deaths in HI3 so it prepped people for this "oh here's the guy who likes to mindlessly kill characters" as a form of misdirection. Not that I think they're beyond killing characters in this game (although I still wouldn't be surprised if Tingyun shows up again at some point)... but I think not like this. This is just a spectacle to set the stage for the mystery and to remind us again that, in dreams, not everything is as it seems.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for 2.0 Impressions, full spoilers:

Meanwhile, I'm a bit surprised very few people expressed doubts about Clockie. I don't think he is the big bad for this arc, but I can't shake this uneasiness when it comes to him. I mean, he can literally manipulate people emotions just like that, which is akin to the Family tinkering with their employees and guests memories. So yeah, I expect this mascot to be more relevant later.

Spoiler for 2.0 Story Spoilers (incl. some sidequests):

Yeah, I think you're right, and also that it's an underdiscussed point. Given that the McGuffin of this plot is the Watchmaker's Legacy, that this mascot character is literally a clock with the power to manipulate emotions in this world of dreams... I mean, subtle they are not.

I played the sidequest involving Cocona this weekend, and the reveal that the Family were given the Penacony residents drugs so they would forget their past and continue upholding the "fantasy" in the dreamworld is pretty dark -- and also that the Trailblazer went along with it without questioning it at the time. (I suppose this is to represent the dark side of "Harmony" -- anything that disrupts harmony must be purged.) In that sidequest, we do see that Clockie is worried about her emotional state, but to what end? Just to uphold the fantasy out of optimistic naivety (because that's what they were created to do), or out of genuine care for people?

I agree that he can't be the big bad, because he's featured in sidequests and the like, so people have to be able to complete these in non-linear order. But, they may have left themselves an opening with Clockie's different emotional states (as we see hinted on the stickers).

There's also a definite connection between Clockie and Misha, and the latter is absolutely tied to the core of the story. Clockie is likely the "Mr. Pocket Watch" of his character story ("A golden pocket watch, which had transformed into a figure with arms and legs, dressed in a uniform and a red bow tie"). Plus, at least in the JP dub, the voice in the one dreamworld calling out to Mikhail sounds absolutely like Misha. There are also mirror allusions all over the place, but Miss Mirror in the story fell off the wall after the dream, which is probably a bad omen. It may be that Penacony is just an extension of Misha's childhood dreams somehow; perhaps Misha is himself the Watchmaker's Legacy, or the key to it. So, certainly, Clockie will be an important character in one way or another.

[belatkuro]

YouTube

https://youtu.be/8wzO-BMbWfU

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Maybe this new vid could be a clue. Maybe we will

Spoiler:

Reverse time like what Clockie did to the Alligator dude to save Firefly and Robin?

Tbh I forgot about Clockie in the main story given the heavy hitters like Firefly and Acheron, plus I don't care that much about Misha. But going through the side quests all around Penacony, maybe Clockie is like an avatar of Harmony or something. It wants to keep the harmony of the place by making the TB manipulate emotions to set things right. Now whether that in itself is good is another thing but maybe it thinks that it's a good thing to do that. And only being seen by the TB and Misha kinda reminds me of the Aranaras in Genshin. It's something alright but like everything else, it's too early to say anything about what role it plays in the story.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

YouTube

https://youtu.be/8wzO-BMbWfU

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Maybe this new vid could be a clue. Maybe we will

Spoiler:

Reverse time like what Clockie did to the Alligator dude to save Firefly and Robin?

Tbh I forgot about Clockie in the main story given the heavy hitters like Firefly and Acheron, plus I don't care that much about Misha. But going through the side quests all around Penacony, maybe Clockie is like an avatar of Harmony or something. It wants to keep the harmony of the place by making the TB manipulate emotions to set things right. Now whether that in itself is good is another thing but maybe it thinks that it's a good thing to do that. And only being seen by the TB and Misha kinda reminds me of the Aranaras in Genshin. It's something alright but like everything else, it's too early to say anything about what role it plays in the story.

He takes out and pats the Misha doll! And the galactic baseballer at the end!

In general I just have to say their dedication to reproducing the artstyle of old cartoons in this series is quite impressive. The first set was more old-school Mickey Mouse, and this new set is a bit more Tom & Jerry/Road Runner & Wile E. Coyote. Even the music is an extremely well-done homage.

Spoiler for 2.0 plot + this video = 2.x speculation:

And yeah... time travel is the other thing they suggested from the start with Acheron, although this was arguably a bigger nod to the "Honkai Multiverse" (with the coded hints depending on which protagonist you were playing).

I definitely think the answers are going to be in the past one way or another. At the very least, I could see somehow like navigating back to the past (via dreams) to figure out what happened to Robin, and this being critical to unraveling the mystery.

In general, I think stories going back to the past to change the future isn't a good plot device most of the time. However, provided we're talking about the world of dreams and not actual reality, it opens up a lot more options, because nothing is real to begin with. From what they've said, the dream seems to be like a sort of shared consciousness, so it's even more susceptible to manipulation by implanting/manipulating memories (as explored with Black Swan, and also suggested near the beginning by Sunday). So in other words, you likely don't actually have to literally change what happened, just change what people *remember* happened, and the shared dream takes a new shape. (This is also probably the source of the trouble facing Penacony in the first place -- "Death" is infecting the shared consciousness and disrupting the Harmony of the dream.

If we assume that Clockie is directly connected to the Watchmaker, there's some doubt about whether the Watchmaker was originally connected to The Family, since there's a suggestion they came to Penacony as a sort of ambitious businessperson. But it's possible that The Family has manipulated it (or even the Watchmaker themselves?) to enforce Harmony in the dreamscape, so Clockie could well be an avatar of that. But I'm also kind of inclined to think we may end up at a point where Clockie (and Misha) are standing with us against The Family after we somehow discover what's truly going on. Even though there is evil from without, it seems to me like the true evil will likely be from within, and the other force is just exposing it or causing things to unravel. To resolve everything, I assume we'll have to address both sides.

[Liddo-kun]

happy today. Managed to get 3 stars in all levels of Youci, before it ended.

Spoiler:

[Klashikari]

I know Mihoyo prepared colossal budget for their recent games when it comes to PR, but clockie animation must have costed an arm and leg given the smooth animations but also the research that had to be done to emulate old stuff just like that. I doubt they could get it right on the get go, especially given how the humor is so different compared to nowadays slapstick stuff.

Back to the status of certain characters, I guess we can expect certain outcomes depending on what kind of assumption we are willing to go with.

Spoiler for 2.0 + sidequests:

From my perspective, there are 3 main explanations for "what actually happened to Firefly and Robin", which boil down to the following scenarios:
A) Since it is a dream, they aren't dead per se. Anyone killed in a dreamscape will naturally wake up. However, there might be consequence to the psyche of their real body
B) Firefly and Robin weren't exactly killed but put in a state that is extremely similar, due to the memetic nature of the Something unto Death creature. That also means that the moment that thing is defeated, they are freed.
C) Firefly and Robin spiritual death is akin to brain death, so their physical bodies are empty husk.

If we are to trust completely what happened in the companion quest, A might be the most natural... except Black Swan and Acheron attitude when Firefly was stabbed, as well as Sunday's attitude towards Hanabi after she dropped her facade really suggest otherwise. Sunday's statement is even more ominous given how he plainly mentioned their deaths... except it might be a red herring because the game never confirmed if Firefly was the only stowaway in the dreamscape and the second victim wasn't mentioned by name. Of course, the latter is obvious given how they executed that scene with Hanabi showing up and Sunday reactions after that, but it is a narrative trick that was used on purpose here so that kind of switcheroo is still possible.

The scenario B is probably the most likely given how the game has tried to connect lore and gameplay mechanics in general. It also maintain the stakes high since there might be consequences if the main cast doesn't do anything about the situation. This is especially relevant to Black Swan assessment about death is an alien concept in a dream that even a memory keeper cannot alter whatsoever. So removing that concept from the dream would naturally reverse the process, assuming the souls can be recovered that is.

The third scenario is the boldest but also the least likely considering Firefly and Robin are too important for the story but also too well designed to be mere NPCs. As such, if C is truly what happened, I expect Mihoyo to undo that, although it would require a lot of mental gymnastics to ensure they are alive after their ordeal, but it isn't impossible.
Aside of the time travel theory that could tie Clockie with the main plot, I think there is another possible way to revive them or explain their death: Memoria.
From what we can understand with Chadwick and Lesley quest, it is possible for memoria to be manifested as individuals and they wouldn't even realize they are just living memories instead of projected psyche from a living body. From there, there are two possible explanations:
1) Firefly and Robin dreamscape avatars were fabricated memorias and were intentionally framed as killed for some shenanigans, so the main cast will have to wake them up by finding their true psyche somewhere in the dreamscape
2) the original dreamdscape avatars actually perished and the cast will have to create new "ego" from memoria and "upload" them into their real life body.

I don't think the first theory would be elegant given the absence of foreshadowing: it would require Black Swan to either not realizing Firefly was a "fake" (which would conflict with the way she detected her right after they escaped for the first time) or be in cahoots for whatever reason, but yet again, imply Sunday is doing some kind of weird gambit as well.
Second theory gives me some mixed feelings but the reasoning behind it isn't too outlandish.

[Marina2]

@Klashikari How about "D"

Spoiler for 2.0 main quest:

D - Firefly, like every other characters we met, are tricking MC to help her. She is co-operating with "someone from other party" to fake her death in a believable way. After this, that "someone" will contact MC, pretending to know her, and ask MC for help in order to set their real plan in motion.

[FlameSparkZ]

Another point that 's bothering me is regarding the moment we meet/help Firefly...

Spoiler for 2.0 story:

When Gallagher appears and helps solve the situation about the "silver haired stowaway".
But when we are heading to Firefly's secret base, we're stopped by a member of the Bloodhound family, we mention Gallagher but he says that he never heard of him.

Seriously, ever since I saw the Penacony trailers I had a feeling the story would mess with us, but I didn't expect trust issues

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Marina2

@Klashikari How about "D"

Spoiler for 2.0 main quest:

D - Firefly, like every other characters we met, are tricking MC to help her. She is co-operating with "someone from other party" to fake her death in a believable way. After this, that "someone" will contact MC, pretending to know her, and ask MC for help in order to set their real plan in motion.

Spoiler for 2.0 main quest:

I actually do think it'll be some variant of this "D" for Firefly in particular, but might still be A/B/C for Robin. Part of the reason is because the two deaths look different: Firefly exploded into particles/water, similar to what we did at the beginning of the act, so there's an obvious callback there. But with Robin, we actually saw the body (albeit in the dream), although Sunday implied both Robin and "the stowaway" were spiritually killed by Death.

One point is that it's possible that Sunday is just aware of Firefly's "death" and assumes it's the same thing that happened to Robin without being sure. I assume the meaning of a stowaway here is someone whose consciousness has slipped into the dreamscape without going through "official means" like a hotel dream bed. So it's basically like "visitors without a ticket" that are hanging out somewhere in the Penacony area and entering the dreamscape. That means that, in principle, they might not know where Firefly's body is to actually check on her, unlike with Robin. This, then, would be the perfect strategy if you are trying to fake your death in the dreamscape for one reason or another, because it couldn't be corroborated on the outside.

So in that sense, Firefly may have indeed been a "stowaway," even if she was not the stowaway the authorities were originally looking for. Whether Gallagher knew this when he let her go or not is, I suppose, another question (considering what FlameSparkZ pointed out).

For Robin, personally I like the "B" theory a lot because it'd be very neat to foreshadow the plot using battle mechanics. Plus, for them to be "prisoners of death" has a strong tie-in to the whole "Penal Colony" aspect that is surely going to be the heart of the overall mystery. I agree that "A" is a little bit too low stakes given what's going on, and "C" kind of relies a bit too much on "sci-fi handwaving" to make deaths in the dreamworld not matter, IMO -- they could do it, but as Klashikari said I'd have mixed feelings.

If we assume it's B, but that people like Sunday don't yet understand that it's B (perhaps think it's C), it also gives us a plausible path to allying with them to rescue Robin. And I agree that it can still create a good amount of tension as Death continues to claim more victims. (If Death claims everyone, who can do the rescuing?) This can still create the sort of "desperation" that Acheron was referring to in the opening act.

Speaking of, though, it's probably worth remembering those critical lines:

The golden dream is getting restless. In the coming nights of long, I'm afraid you will face many tribulations and witness many tragedies. And finally... your sight will only see black and white. But please believe me that in that monochrome world, there will be a glimpse of fleeting red, and when you make a choice, it will reappear before you once more... What you must do now is ponder its significance. And then... You can return to the waking world. That's where we all find our answers.

The choice that "reappears before you once more" is probably the most suspect part of this whole narration. It could actually be referring to what we're speculating here about Firefly: that although she thinks she's lost Firefly, she will appear again so she'll get to relive the choice to protect her. But perhaps it's more likely that it refers to stuff still yet to come. Perhaps that's where the "C" path and Memoria could somehow come in.

(If I had to guess, I am supposing that they will play this a little bit more straight and it has something to do with the reveal of Acheron's true identity herself and her connection to the wider mystery. We might literally go back to that initial dreamscape with Acheron from the opening scene and have the same conversation with her again, and the "glimpse of fleeting red" is a reference to the red text and whoever/whatever that represents. She would ask again have we met before, are you afraid of losing bonds, etc. But somehow these choices are significant to determining the outcome. We already know that there are branches in Acheron's dialog in various places (plus, if you try to say no to her joining your team, you'll get forced into accepting her by the red text, triggering the "strange feeling"), and it probably depends on what exactly you answered in that opening scene. So *this* might be the time-travel-ish part. Somehow your decisions in that scene impact your relationship with Acheron and it has some impact on some future event, and if you answer the right way the "glimpse of fleeting red" will save you. If she is an Emanator of whatever, perhaps it exists in this dreamscape somehow out of time, or we have been trapped in time this whole time existing only in a series of dreams. Who knows...)

Anyway, for now the long wait continues.

[FlameSparkZ]

Considering the nature of dreams and my personal experiences with them, I have to agree with the later portion of the above theories.

Spoiler for Dreams, Penacony and the Harmony:

Dreams can be chaotic, and sometimes they can repeat by "returning" to a certain point occasionally leading to a different outcome. Additionally, the concept of Time is essencially meaningless within them.

What I feel that's happening in Penacony is that the Family/Harmony has been containing and manipulating the Dreamscape for their own ideals...which in my opinion is like how a circus used to tame wild animals and use them as an attraction/form of entertainment.

...And doesn't Harmony also appear similar to Genshin's Eternity? Something that is meant to be maintained indefinitely, but it's ultimately a lofty and unrealistic ideal?
Which also reminds me of Scaramouche's dialog regarding Eternity: "Eternity stretches things out over a long time. But each moment within it becomes all the more fragile."

My theory is that the Stellaron in Penacony is like the one in Jarilo-VI. It has merged with the consciousness of the original inmates in the penal colony, creating the basis of the Dreamscape (I believe this is confirmed in lore). I also think the Watchmaker's consciousness has also merged with the Stellaron, who stabilized and isolated the more dangerous areas of the Dreamscape, which allowed the Family to construct their "Happy Fun Land".

That in itself, also draws parallels with issues in real life such as deforestation, urbanization and the phrase "Nature reclaiming the land". If one pushes something back, they will eventually have to deal with the consequences...which is what I feel is currently happening.

...Been a while since I've written this much for a theory/speculation, but still doesn't compare to what you guys write in your reviews/opinions

[relentlessflame]

@FlameSparkZ I like your theories!

Spoiler for 2.0 Plot: Interesting Find and Craziest Theory:

By the way, if you want something a bit creepy and possibly relevant, do a search through the quest dialog for the word "time."

There are so many interesting things here! Among them, notice how many times the quest summary text refers to the word "time" including things like "hopefully things go smoothly this time," "it is finally time to enter the dream", "you'll be dreaming in no time." But also, look at when Robin "tuned" us to "the resonance of the Harmony": "Your vision dims as your body dissolves, becoming one with the fluidity of the time space." "You'll be feeling like your normal self in no time." Notice how many times Aventurine mentions "time." And also, it's Misha that explains that "time in the dream has been synced with reality's" "to avoid any physical or mental burden on guests."

And that quest isn't all. How about this one or this one, or especially this one. And also this one and this one.

Obviously it's not like "time" is a rare word in the English language, but to use it so much in a story with Clockie as a mascot and with these kinds of themes (especially in the quest descriptions and in so many key scenes) seems too much to be an accident.

Which leads to my craziest theory (which I kind of alluded to as an option before, but didn't consider the full extent of it). This whole thing is Groundhog Day (or Endless Eight, or the Sabzeruz Festival). When 2.1 starts, we're going right back to the beginning in the dream with Acheron and everything is going to loop. I'd suspect the Trailblazer at first isn't going to realize it's a loop, but they're going to have a "strange feeling."

When Firefly talks about all the times she's been there before and how things are changing, this isn't because she's a "native stowaway" who lives there, but because she remembers all the loops. This would suggest that what we just experienced may not have been our first loop. (Note that she introduces herself as "a stage performer, although right now I'm just an extra...") It also suggests that changes we make during one loop can impact future loops (because the dreamspace exists out of time).

Black Swan may or may not realize it's a loop, but if not then likely she'll at least be able to help us extract our memories of the past loops somehow.

If you try to deviate from the script too far, the "red text" guides you back to the path (as it does if you try to reject Acheron joining you).

I assume that, if we remember the past loops, our first priority will be to prevent Firefly's death. Perhaps her death (or the death of others) is an inevitability, so if we try to change the script here, Something Unto Death will just come out wherever she is and kill her, or kill other people instead. No matter what we do, some people are going to die in front of our eyes. This might lead to the "witnessing many tragedies and finally seeing only black and white" (realizing that no matter what we do, we can't seem to prevent people from dying).

Eventually the answer will probably be to get to the bottom of other things like Robin's death, Aventurine's gambit, the truth of Penacony, and Acheron's true identity. This will eventually lead to the "glimpse of fleeting red" that leads to a choice reappearing to us once more (guiding us to a different ending).

I'm not necessarily 100% convinced by this theory. One reason of course being that it was done already in Genshin Impact to a lesser degree, so people who played both games might feel like they're retreading old ground. However, the way they wrote the dialog and quest descriptions seems far too "cheeky" to not be playing some sort of game like this. The puns are far too rich and hiding in plain sight.


P.S. Also...

Firefly: How beautiful... Time is frozen at this golden hour, this golden dream shared by the Fool from the Tavern and the Memokeeper from the Garden of Recollection, the wandering Ranger and the IPC ambassador, the Astral Express Nameless... and me.

I totally missed the many implications of her saying this at that time during my first playthrough.

[FlameSparkZ]

@relentlessflame True, the hints are abundant and the theory is quite possible. Especially considering how Hoyoverse's members are hardcore otaku
Also yes, that quote from Firefly is rather intriguing.

[MeoTwister5]

Acheron's kit leaks are out.

Her kit looks broken, HOWEVER, she has a VERY limited pool of useable light cones because majority of Nihility characters are either DoT and debuff oriented, Acheron being the first real Nihility DPS.

From what people can tell she only has 3 LC choices, either her sig LC, Welt's LC, or Good Night Sleep Well. The first 2 are 5 stars and GNSW is gacha.

I can't afford the 5 stars and GNSW hasn't has a rerun rate up in forever.

Damn. I may have to skip her until Nihility DPS LCs become a thing.

[Liddo-kun]

does Acheron banner come after Sparkle banner? I hope not.
will need time to restock Jades, because I will burn all on Sparkle.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

does Acheron banner come after Sparkle banner? I hope not.
will need time to restock Jades, because I will burn all on Sparkle.

Unfortunately, everything seems to point that that'll be the case

I'm already considering skipping Sparkle to go all out on Acheron

[Liddo-kun]

that would be three straight waifu banners if Acheron will arrive after Sparkle. Hoyo putting some pressure on f2p waifu collectors to open the wallet. lol

anyway... I'll think of something.. There's plenty leftover quests I haven't done yet.

[darkangel0278]

Hey guys, quick question. Are you still F2P if you spend only on Express Supply Pass?

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by darkangel0278

Hey guys, quick question. Are you still F2P if you spend only on Express Supply Pass?

if you buy something from game, then you stop being an F2P

an F2P, a low budget spender, and a whale.... are different types of players.

of course, it's not bad to spend. Show the game developers some support for their work.

[dragon1412]

For once my Welt S2 light cone will serve me well in my quest for acheron, all my concern is how much jade I will have left after Sparkle, I have relatively good saving for now but I doubt it can stand 2 50/50 losses/

[Liddo-kun]

won't have any jade after Sparkle, which is why I'm hoping it's Aventurine banner that comes after Sparkle banner, and not Acheron.. so I could have chance to restock on jades.

_________

oh. and on another thing. Took awhile, but now finished building Xueyi on all servers I play in. Take what I say with a grain of salt, as your experiences might be different. To all planning to build her... she is a very stat hungry character, and you should be prepared for frustrations ptsd (lol) even with multiple guides.

play on three servers, so have three builds fully levelled + all traces and relics maxed. All builds have break rope + atk sphere

4x Shooting Meteor + Talia - this is the best among my Xueyi. The struggle was reaching enough SPD for Talia while still having enough ATK.

4x Brilliant Star + Rutilant - tried pairing BS with Talia first. But when BS was paired with Talia, I was struggling to find enough Break Effect, ATK, and SPD sub stats... eventually gave up on Talia, and paired BS with Rutilant. The damage is consistent, but this is the lowest damage among all my Xueyi. When time allows, will change it to A Shooting Meteor set. Only good thing this build did was my Qingque got upgraded, with all the Briilliant Star I farmed during the struggle. lol

4x Shooting Meteor + SSS - this is the easiest to build Xueyi. SSS provided ATK and the SPD requirement is not hard to reach. I recommend this for those wanting easy way of building her. Note, it's not as good as Talia, but the damage difference is negligible, and you won't be subjected to so much stress in farming.

---> Xueyi is difficult to build, but rewarding to build if you can get enough damage. She is not a replacement for Qingque.. there are still several places I want Qingque instead of her. However, there are now places where I want her instead of QQ. For example, I bring Xueyi in SU 6.. she quickly kills the annoying Bronya that the Cocolia boss summons in the second phase. Also, in MOC 8, Xueyi (with Ruan Mei buff) destroyed Yanqing boss. She is very good at breaking boss shields, ignoring element of the target is an advantage.