Character Discussion - C.C

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You see, that locking away of the Code is a strange case. And Marianne said that C.C. did it on her own in 20 when they met up. It also seems to point out that C.C. has done that before. Locking away the Code may not be able to stop Immortality, just memory Loss. The thing that is being discussed is if she TRANSFERS the Code to someone else, she will be alive still. Which I think is a good possibility.

I thought it was weird too. I mean if you can become mortal so easily why hand out geass to be able to die? She was bleeding and Lelouch had to put a band-aid on her to stop it, that means she had become mortal IMO.

And how can you transfer your code just like that? That is why she wanted someone to attain a certain level of geass to dump her code on them. Charles reached that level so he could take away her code.

If she can live and lose her code I shouldn't worry about her death Lelouch would just need to take her to a hospital...

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Tael

If eternal life is terrible, wouldn't the most basic instinct be to stop living eternally? Death seems like a rather far off reach since few creatures would just look at death as if it were their warm teddy bear.

If she feels that all those hundreds of years are more than enough, and has lived a cycle of repeated loneliness, exploitation, torture and discrimination...why would she want to live more without a specific reason, instead of dying and setting a final period to it? Not saying I agree, but that seems to be her point of view.

The value of self-preservation (or even self-appreciation) isn't very high on her list after being shot, burned to death and more, I assume. Maybe death wasn't her first option, but it still came along, even if we don't have all the details involved in that decision making process laid out.

Honestly, we'll never come up with the "perfect" explanation that sounds reasonable to each and every one of us, even if the show came out and said it.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Tael

:
How could she not realize it? I'm honestly perplexed as to how she could possibly rationalize anything other than the immortality, that which makes everything around her eventually disappear, as to not being the source of everything eventually disappearing around her...

Lets see,
1.)She assumess it's her charracter (or her superiority in case of knowledge and wisdom)
2.)She doesn't remember how it was before and hence generalizes her life as it stands now.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

If she feels that all those hundreds of years are more than enough, and has lived a cycle of repeated loneliness, exploitation, torture and discrimination...why would she want to live more without a specific reason, instead of dying and setting a final period to it? Not saying I agree, but that seems to be her point of view.

The value of self-preservation (or even self-appreciation) isn't very high on her list after being shot, burned to death and more, I assume. Maybe death wasn't her first option, but it still came along, even if we don't have all the details involved in that decision making process laid out.

Well, again, this brings us back to at the beginning. Before being burned, maimed, whatever, she could have made her contract to be just losing her code, but Episode 15 implies that it has always been to die. I can understand your point, but it would imply that she never tried to start a contract until several hundred years into her immortality, which would conflict with the history of her existence.

I think we're running in circles now.

Originally Posted by whiter

Lets see,
1.)She assumess it's her charracter
2.)She doesn't remember how it was before and hence generalizes her life as it stands now.

Her words in Season 2 Episode 15 would imply that she quite aware of her immortality being the source of her suffering.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Tael

Her words in Season 2 Episode 15 would imply that she quite aware of her immortality being the source of her suffering.

It's not like living with Lelouch haven't had any impact on her. She might have realized this while interacting with L.L, for example, as she clearly has enjoyed the time she spent with him. And then she realized it's not worth dying in the end, wouldn't that make sense?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Asleep

I thought it was weird too. I mean if you can become mortal so easily why hand out geass to be able to die? She was bleeding and Lelouch had to put a band-aid on her to stop it, that means she had become mortal IMO.

Why? She has bled while she was immortal. That isn't an issue at all.

And how can you transfer your code just like that? That is why she wanted someone to attain a certain level of geass to dump her code on them. Charles reached that level so he could take away her code.

Yes, there has to be a certain type of Geass that has to be achieved. I agree.

If she can live and lose her code I shouldn't worry about her death Lelouch would just need to take her to a hospital...

Remember though, that all her C.C. memories will be gone. She will revert back to the slave girl again.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by whiter

It's not like living with Lelouch haven't had any impact on her. She might have realized this while interacting with L.L, for example, as she clearly has enjoyed the time she spent with him. And then she realized it's not worth dying in the end, wouldn't that make sense?

The impact or her understanding of that did not come until the very end of the episode, her explanation came long before. I would find it odd for her to have explained that her immortality was her bane of her existence, if it was not, or if she did not understand it.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Tael

The impact or her understanding of that did not come until the very end of the episode, her explanation came long before. I would find it odd for her to have explained that her immortality was her bane of her existence, if it was not, or if she did not understand it.

She understood it because of Lelouch, maybe in the end of S1 or something (who knows), her resolve to keep living is not linked with that issue, just had it as a random comment.

[itoastmysocks]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You see, that locking away of the Code is a strange case. And Marianne said that C.C. did it on her own in 20 when they met up. It also seems to point out that C.C. has done that before. Locking away the Code may not be able to stop Immortality, just memory Loss. The thing that is being discussed is if she TRANSFERS the Code to someone else, she will be alive still. Which I think is a good possibility.

well my opinion, and that is based on the scenes, when she locked the code and interacted with Lelouch, that well the scar was gone, plus I think that whole scene with her getting cut by accident and him aplying that bandaid was to show that she was a mere mortal girl that is as fragile as everyone else (physically and health wise speaking), and that wound would have healed up in a few seconds, and I still think (based on how her body reacts to injury) that her immortality is just a sideeffect of increased cell regeneration (or whatever you wanna call it)

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Why? She has bled while she was immortal. That isn't an issue at all.

why did he put a band-aid on her then? Was Lelouch just being Lelouch?

Originally Posted by Orga777

Remember though, that all her C.C. memories will be gone. She will revert back to the slave girl again.

But if it was so easy to become mortal and thus be able to die she should have done that in the first place. Can they survive though after whatever ritual is done to take the code? Or will they bleed to death, no matter what is done?

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Why? She has bled while she was immortal. That isn't an issue at all.

Well then Lelouch shouldn't have felt the need to bandage it up unless she really did lose her immortality or he assummed thats what happened or he is just that nice of a guy.

[Tael]

Originally Posted by whiter

She understood it because of Lelouch, maybe in the end of S1 or something (who knows), her resolve to keep living is not linked with that issue, just had it as a random comment.

I'm sorry but there is nothing to suggest that she understood, all of a sudden, that her life sucked because of her immortality... because of Lelouch. Not to mention that this is after he was piss angry at her for what occurred to Shirley. It simply makes no sense and seems like a severe straw grasping attempt.

Originally Posted by itoastmysocks

well my opinion, and that is based on the scenes, when she locked the code and interacted with Lelouch, that well the scar was gone, plus I think that whole scene with her getting cut by accident and him aplying that bandaid was to show that she was a mere mortal girl that is as fragile as everyone else (physically and health wise speaking), and that wound would have healed up in a few seconds, and I still think (based on how her body reacts to injury) that her immortality is just a sideeffect of increased cell regeneration (or whatever you wanna call it)

Then why didn't C.C. jump off a bridge and seal her code if she wanted to die?

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Tael

Well, again, this brings us back to at the beginning. Before being burned, maimed, whatever, she could have made her contract to be just losing her code, but Episode 15 implies that it has always been to die. I can understand your point, but it would imply that she never tried to start a contract until several hundred years into her immortality, which would conflict with the history of her existence.

I think we're running in circles now.

There's only so much we can say or assume beyond what little the show tells us, without going too far, so...circles it is.

Why would it conflict that much though? We don't know when she started to make contracts at all, and maybe she enjoyed immortality for a while and didn't mind...at first, for some decades or even a couple of centuries.

She probably wasn't consciously seeking her death wish until then, and at first tried to live life to the fullest, but when things began to go wrong and repeat, several times...it all became tiring and meaningless, so the need to make a contract and accomplish a "wish" became far more pressing than anything else, and it didn't seem to her that "love" would be a better option than "death" by that time.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki

Well then Lelouch shouldn't have felt the need to bandage it up unless she really did lose her immortality or he assummed thats what happened or he is just that nice of a guy.

Yes, that is what I think. He did it because he THOUGHT that she was mortal. It isn't like he had anything else to go on.

Or he was just being the "nice" Lelouch that pops up every blue moon. XD

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Tael

I'm sorry but there is nothing to suggest that she understood, all of a sudden, that her life sucked because of her immortality... because of Lelouch. Not to mention that this is after he was piss angry at her for what occurred to Shirley. It simply makes no sense and seems like a severe straw grasping attempt.

He was angry while talking with her but never said that he hated her or anything.

But whatever, in the end, he doesn't hate her at all as we can see in turn 23.

People have just assumed that he hated her. He was harsh towards the geass, but not harsh directly about her.

[whiter]

Originally Posted by Tael

I'm sorry but there is nothing to suggest that she understood, all of a sudden, that her life sucked because of her immortality... because of Lelouch. Not to mention that this is after he was piss angry at her for what occurred to Shirley. It simply makes no sense and seems like a severe straw grasping attempt.

In the end of S1 he wasn't angry at her...
Not to mention that in the end of S1 she heard the words: "If you'r a witch then I'll become warlock" - or something similar to that.
She was clearly surprised there and maybe realized something.
I'm giving alternatives, not like these are certainly true

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

There's only so much we can say or assume beyond what little the show tells us, without going too far, so...circles it is.

I think we've hit the wall of speculation because, just like your reply after this, my reply would be equally based on speculation. Not sure this is worth continuing since I think we've basically addressed everything concrete and are just throwing around 'what ifs' but I will say, again, that seeking death is still an odd contract decision, even if a lot of bad things happen and her immortality has taken everything from her, if she has the option of losing the immortality and not dying. Perhaps it is because to me it is simple, thing X hurts me, so then I should remove thing X and do what I want. It just feels too much like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Originally Posted by Narona

He was angry while talking with her but never said that he hated her or anything.

But whatever, in the end, he doesn't hate her at all as we can see in turn 23.

People have just assumed that he hated her. He was harsh towards the geass, but not harsh directly about her.

I never said hated, I said was angry. He was angry at her, he does not have to hate her, but his anger being directed at her is hardly a flattering gesture towards C.C.. In fact, this conversation has had nothing to do with him hating her... so you've confused me with the post.

Originally Posted by whiter

In the end of S1 he wasn't angry at her...
Not to mention that in the end of S1 she heard the words: "If you'r a witch then I'll become warlock" - or something similar to that.
She was clearly surprised there and maybe realized something.
I'm giving alternatives, not like these are certainly true

But your throwing around things without any evidence that they led to any form of realization of which I am speaking. They may have led to a realization about Lelouch caring for her, but they have hardly anything to do with her making some grandiose revelation that her life sucks because of immortality. There is more than enough to suggest she's known it far longer than she's known Lelouch, hence making the examples your putting forth grasping at straws.

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Tael

I think we've hit the wall of speculation because, just like your reply after this, my reply would be equally based on speculation. Not sure this is worth continuing since I think we've basically addressed everything concrete and are just throwing around 'what ifs' but I will say, again, that seeking death is still an odd contract decision, even if a lot of bad things happen and her immortality has taken everything from her, if she has the option of losing the immortality and not dying. Perhaps it is because to me it is simple, thing X hurts me, so then I should remove thing X and do what I want. It just feels too much like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I agree, certainly.

I also think it is an odd decision, from my personal point of view, but I can understand what the show is trying to get at, given what we know so far about C.C. and her life, so I can run with it until more information is provided.

Humans beings do tend to make mountains out of molehills and vice versa, you know

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Kusaja

I also think it is an odd decision, from my personal point of view, but I can understand what the show is trying to get at, given what we know so far about C.C. and her life, so I can run with it until more information is provided.

Certainly, I can understand it, but to me it seems rather stupid of a decision and somewhat of a plot hole, if she can simply lose her code and regain/maintain her 'present' life. Which is where the conversation started if I remember correctly. If losing her code means she loses who she is or dies, then seeking death makes sense, because she has nothing at the end. But if there is no such loss, then it simply does not make much sense.

Remember, that I am of the impression that losing the code means losing your memories, but I'm trying to look at this from a different point of view.

[itoastmysocks]

Originally Posted by Tael

Then why didn't C.C. jump off a bridge and seal her code if she wanted to die?

that's the good question... now isn't it?

but then again... somepeople just say they want to die actually mean what they say.. but are to much of a coward to kill themselves.. doubt it with C.C. though

the other idea is.. that she wants to die.. .yeah... but does she want to get killed or kill herself

well we all know that she wants to die... but not how.. another big question... those seem to get thrown at us lately.. or just at me... I might just be reading to much into all that.... again