[Manga] Chapter 393 Discussion

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Divine Punisher

id rather want itachi dead, than turning out to be a good guy.

Completely agree. Itachi becoming good all of a sudden would be like Orochimaru suddenly admitting that he needed the Sharingan not to learn all the jutsu of the world, but so he could battle the evil Madara and protect Konoha. Or, Konan all of a sudden killing Pein and saying that she has waited X amount of years in order to strike down the man/thing that killed Nagato. This type of cliche storyline is completely uncalled for and ultimately only really useful for shock value and nothing more.

Rather, I would preffer if the image (the final poke ) is left entirely ambiguous. Some see the image as being "good" or at least an affectionate reminder of their happier past; other see the image as ultimate failure, reaching for his ultimate goal only to fall at the finish line. If he has truly died or is at least seconds away from death, I would preffer to never know what he whispered or why he poked Sasuke's head. Truly effective drama is not explained, it simply occurs. If Kishimoto tries to add an "Itachi-was-good" storyline, I can't help but feel he will ruin Itachi's character and his beautiful good-bye (i.e. the poke).

[MaxwellDemon]

I find it funny that people are assuming the only reason Itachi poked Sasuke's head is only due to him being blind.

If this was actual life, maybe!... but it is a manga, everything significant happens for a reason.

Now, I am not saying Itachi is a good guy, he can't possibly be a good guy. He could be a gray character or whatever, but he could never be a GOOD guy. I am guessing the impact of that one poke was just to remind Sasuke of everything that happened between them... and that in the end, he failed to exact his revenge properly (which is a good thing, Sasuke becoming insane and having Naruto kill him off... I like that storyline. Just kidding. ).

Or for those Itachi is secretly a good guy freaks... it MIGHT mean that he does hold some affection for Sasuke, because after all... god knows why would he want to talk to Naruto before meeting his doom with Sasuke.

Nonetheless, at first, I was shocked that Itachi went in such a lame way... but I am glad this is the he went now that I think about. Having him being killed by Sasuke would be worse than this.

EDIT: I just realized a minor plot hole. If Itachi wanted Sasuke's eyes... why didn't him take them on those many opportunities he had? Telling Sasuke to become stronger wasn't one way to go, especially if he activated MS... if he had NEEDED a pair of MS, why did he chose THIS opportunity when Sasuke doesn't even have it? I am not saying Itachi didn't want them, he probably really did seeing as his true self was one maniacal eyes-obsessive freak... but I think Kishi forgot a little detail... XD

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james3wk

Itachi becoming good all of a sudden would be like Orochimaru suddenly admitting that he needed the Sharingan not to learn all the jutsu of the world, but so he could battle the evil Madara and protect Konoha.

You should see that there's a big difference between Orochimaru and Itachi, it would be an ignorant thing to not see how different they behave, how different their manners are, etc. Orochimaru was a crazy freak, shouting around in his madness and killing countless people, thinking that the whole world is just a stage for his experiments. In the end he becomes a monster instead of being a genius ninja, while Jiraiya made a great kage level fight we see Orochimaru simply becomes a monster and dies in a pathetic way. What's left of Orochimaru is more animal-like than human: some white snakes and a crazy Kabuto. Orochimaru's heritage is mostly destoryed by Sasuke while Jiraiya's heritage is Konoha and Naruto who will probably become hokage. Itachi remains elegant even in this fight, he is standing like a rock while his opponent attacks, escapes, vomits himself out of his own body, grows disgusting wings and snakes out of his body, etc. Itachi did move only a very few times in this fight, actually we must praise Sasuke that he forced Itachi to make even one step. It took 2 chapters for Sasuke to even make Itachi stand up from the throne

Originally Posted by james3wk

Rather, I would preffer if the image (the final poke ) is left entirely ambiguous.

It can happen, an example is Sasori's death. However the Sasuke - Itachi story is the second most important story after Naruto's, so it's probable that everything will be cleared up. And one more important thing: it seems that Itachi died or is near death, however there was no Itachi-flashback yet. There must be an important reason for that, even Orochimaru got his flashback before Sasuke "absorbed" him. So i expect some explanation with flashbacks.

Originally Posted by james3wk

If Kishimoto tries to add an "Itachi-was-good" storyline, I can't help but feel he will ruin Itachi's character and his beautiful good-bye (i.e. the poke).

Kishimoto must give an explanation because right now such an abrupt ending makes this story feel stupid or at least incomplete. Something is missing from this story, a secret/story that lasted almost 400 chapters needs a better closure than this.
But why do you think that Itachi must be either "good" or "bad", there is a whole world between these two extremes. How about Itachi was 2/3 bad and 1/3 good or the opposite
How about saying that Sasuke and Itachi are very similar, the big difference being that Naruto's demon did heal Naruto from Sasuke's lethal wound in the valley of the end. Can you imagine a Sasuke that killed Naruto and gained MS? How would you imagine sucha guy? I believe that the "fateful moment" that Itachi did mention was the one to make the difference between the Uchiha brothers, and Sasuke will realize that. If Sasuke had killed Naruto by now he would be like Itachi, so then who is bad and who is good in such a story?

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It can happen, an example is Sasori's death. However the Sasuke - Itachi story is the second most important story after Naruto's, so it's probable that everything will be cleared up. And one more important thing: it seems that Itachi died or is near death, however there was no Itachi-flashback yet. There must be an important reason for that, even Orochimaru got his flashback before Sasuke "absorbed" him. So i expect some explanation with flashbacks.


Kishimoto must give an explanation because right now such an abrupt ending makes this story feel stupid or at least incomplete. Something is missing from this story, a secret/story that lasted almost 400 chapters needs a better closure than this.

My thoughts exactly.

If this was the be all and end all of the story of Sasuke & Itachi, it should have deserved a good flash back to explain Itachi's original motivations. If it is left like this, it is either poor writing and Kishimoto is veering off the standard shounen manga style.

As a member of the audience, I want to know how did Itachi and Madara kill the Uchiha clan, how did Itachi and Madara meet in the first place, did he really kill his best friend as he was accused, did he really kill his parents, what was the bond between these two brothers, was it all contempt or was their brotherly love? All these are not satisfactorily answered in the preceeding chapters.

To provide justice to Sasuke's motivation of revenge, it really does deserve better explanation.

[Alleluia_Cone]

In my case, I could deal with the collapse, probably because I had been preparing myself for it and had expected that something like that would end up happening, but what I cannot get over is how Itachi bunked his head against the wall. I mean, at that point, it was like he was an 84 year old man slipping and falling down in the shower; did Kishimoto honestly have to make the moment so embarrassing for Itachi?

[iBeast]

I don't think Itachi is really dead....there has to be some remaining last words. Then again, if he is really dead and Madara is truly the one Sasuke is after, then Sasuke will probably take Itachi's eyes.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Kenu

My thoughts exactly.

If this was the be all and end all of the story of Sasuke & Itachi, it should have deserved a good flash back to explain Itachi's original motivations. If it is left like this, it is either poor writing and Kishimoto is veering off the standard shounen manga style.

As a member of the audience, I want to know how did Itachi and Madara kill the Uchiha clan, how did Itachi and Madara meet in the first place, did he really kill his best friend as he was accused, did he really kill his parents, what was the bond between these two brothers, was it all contempt or was their brotherly love? All these are not satisfactorily answered in the preceeding chapters.

To provide justice to Sasuke's motivation of revenge, it really does deserve better explanation.

Well, remember that much of this can be explained by Madara himself. I'm sure he knows a lot about Itachi just as Itachi knew a great deal about him. If everything is expained by Itachi now, then there's not much to be revealed when Sasuke eventually confronts Madara.

Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone

In my case, I could deal with the collapse, probably because I had been preparing myself for it and had expected that something like that would end up happening, but what I cannot get over is how Itachi bunked his head against the wall. I mean, at that point, it was like he was an 84 year old man slipping and falling down in the shower; did Kishimoto honestly have to make the moment so embarrassing for Itachi?

Had Itachi not fell against the wall changing the angle of his head, he would've fell flat on his face, and that would've been a little more embarassing, no?

[Sarugaki]

Wow excellent point Ero-Sennin, there was no Itachi flashback... interesting. Maybe he's not done yet... especially with Oro the goa'uld around

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_hai

I don't think Itachi is really dead....there has to be some remaining last words. Then again, if he is really dead and Madara is truly the one Sasuke is after, then Sasuke will probably take Itachi's eyes.

Well, it never says Itachi is dead, it's the same case with Jiraiya, they just concluded it with Jiraiya talking about the next title for "his book".

Sasuke won't take Itachi's eyes I'm sure, even he is not that cruel.

[tatami]

j man is dead for sure , itachi just collapsed...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It can happen, an example is Sasori's death. However the Sasuke - Itachi story is the second most important story after Naruto's, so it's probable that everything will be cleared up. And one more important thing: it seems that Itachi died or is near death, however there was no Itachi-flashback yet. There must be an important reason for that, even Orochimaru got his flashback before Sasuke "absorbed" him. So i expect some explanation with flashbacks.

I would preffer if Sasuke were to ask the dying Itachi why he did everything he did, only for Itachi to say "Foolish Little Brother" and die.

Sasori had no real background-style flashback, rather he had two or three simple images (of his "parents") repeated several times. Added to that, Orochimaru had only a page or two flashback that described his base fear of death, a very restrained flashback to the "begining" of Orochimaru's journey into madness. If, and this is a big if, Kishimoto could restrain himself as he as he did with Sasori's and Orochimaru's flashback, and show a confined scene that Itachi and the audience "view", but Sasuke does not know (i.e. Itachi does not speak of his flashback, he merely remembers it as he lays dying), then I think a flashback would serve the dramatic scene quite well. But if Itachi tries and explains his actions, then this highly dramtic scene will be destroyed

I want Sasuke to never know why he was poked on the head, for Sasuke to know would destroy the entire image. Rather, this needs to add to Sasuke's suffering. Did he do the right thing in fighting his brother? Was there something else he could have done? Was Naruto/Kakashi correct? and finally, Where is Madara ? To create greater urgency in Sasuke's quest for Uchiha Vengeance, dramaticaly speaking, it would be better if Sasuke went to Madara for any answers rather than relying on a flashback, the worst of the worst storytelling devices.

I understand your and others desire for closure, but closure in this situation would feel false and un-realistic (within the confines of the Naruto-verse). Having a heart to heart as one of the characters lay dying is so...sappy and cliche. It migth provide some relevant information, but the emotional quality of the scene would be, undoubtedly, over-the-top.

[Deidara_Bang]

If itachi collapsed, just collapsed, and sasuke goes for his eyes, i bet anything!! that zetsu will just sit there like a useless turd lol

[Endrance]

Originally Posted by MaxwellDemon

EDIT: I just realized a minor plot hole. If Itachi wanted Sasuke's eyes... why didn't him take them on those many opportunities he had? Telling Sasuke to become stronger wasn't one way to go, especially if he activated MS... if he had NEEDED a pair of MS, why did he chose THIS opportunity when Sasuke doesn't even have it? I am not saying Itachi didn't want them, he probably really did seeing as his true self was one maniacal eyes-obsessive freak... but I think Kishi forgot a little detail... XD

Im thinking itachi wanted to give sasuke time to awaken his mangekyo but he ran out of time with his eyes so had to go for it.

[Alleluia_Cone]

Originally Posted by james3wk

I would preffer if Sasuke were to ask the dying Itachi why he did everything he did, only for Itachi to say "Foolish Little Brother" and die.

That would be great; not only would it preserve the personality of Itachi and revive some of the mystery that used to make him so great (that is, before he revealed himself to be nothing more than a power hungry pawn), but it would really piss Sasuke off!

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by james3wk

But if Itachi tries and explains his actions, then this highly dramtic scene will be destroyed

I want Sasuke to never know why he was poked on the head, for Sasuke to know would destroy the entire image. Rather, this needs to add to Sasuke's suffering. Did he do the right thing in fighting his brother? Was there something else he could have done? Was Naruto/Kakashi correct? and finally, Where is Madara ? To create greater urgency in Sasuke's quest for Uchiha Vengeance, dramaticaly speaking, it would be better if Sasuke went to Madara for any answers rather than relying on a flashback, the worst of the worst storytelling devices.

I understand your and others desire for closure, but closure in this situation would feel false and un-realistic (within the confines of the Naruto-verse). Having a heart to heart as one of the characters lay dying is so...sappy and cliche. It migth provide some relevant information, but the emotional quality of the scene would be, undoubtedly, over-the-top.

There should be some sort of closure, because this is Itachi dying here not a noname akatsuki grunt like Kakuzu or Hidan.
There is a small chance that the explanation is given by Sasuke going into Itachi's head like he did before but this time as Itachi is abou to die Sasuke discovers Itachi's life as flashback. The chance is small because Sasuke would need to activate his sharingan to enter Itachi's mind, but he is out of chakra. Maybe he will magically have a little bit of chakra, i would not mind it if the next chapter gives us the young Itachi and his life explained. Itachi's flashback would be not only the closure of this arc but an introduction of the final evil guy, that is Madara.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

In my opinion, Itachi's end was just one more mind-f*** for Sasuke before he died. I can't believe that he would suddenly become a "loving older brother" again right before he died. Utterly ridiculous.

[EphemeralDream]

Maybe Sasuke will take Itachi's ring and become a new member

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by tatami

j man is dead for sure , itachi just collapsed...

Originally Posted by Deidara_Bang

If itachi collapsed, just collapsed, and sasuke goes for his eyes, i bet anything!! that zetsu will just sit there like a useless turd lol

Originally Posted by EphemeralDream

Maybe Sasuke will take Itachi's ring and become a new member

Lol, after all the trouble to get Tobi in the group. Honestly, I swear Pain didn't know Tobi was Madara at first.

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Still wondering what Itachi could of possibly uttered before he collapsed it did seem to hit Sasuke. It even looks as if Oro managed to escape.

Itachi might of just collapsed and isn't dead yet, but I would rather have it end like this than for the moment to drag on. His character should atleast be perserved so he can go out with some decency rather than it be completly thrown out the window in these final moments. It would be a perfect set up for Sasuke's situation, being left with so many questions and thoughts and no answers for now.

[LIQUIDCELL]

ITACHI'S greatest weakness is his own brother. Inspite of all his ambitions to obtain invincibility, he could never kill Sasuke. He LOVES HIM! The joke---the POKE on the forhead--he once played on Sasuke when he was little, as if to say, "WAKE UP, little brother"!

There's two sides of Itachi----his GIFT is his own curse w/c he tries to fulfill with his NEED to USE it. Second part of him, he just want to be ALONE; that's why he never exerts effort unless threatened.