Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old)

[Majek]

A fun read that blog is. I'll take notice of that but i'm not believing anything until i see it

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Majek

A fun read that blog is. I'll take notice of that but i'm not believing anything until i see it

agree

[BabyRichelle12]

i really don't know what u were all talkng about but i think this anime is a mecha ryt but im starting to watch tjis and i find it GREAT!

[JediNight]

It has mecha in it, but it's not really a mecha anime IMHO. While some animes people fight with guns, this anime they fight with giant mecha *shrug* That is all ancillary to the real plot though.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by JediNight

It has mecha in it, but it's not really a mecha anime IMHO. While some animes people fight with guns, this anime they fight with giant mecha *shrug* That is all ancillary to the real plot though.

I wouldn't believe that to be true somewhat. Here's why: Lelouch has the Geass ability has his significant power while Suzuka has Lancelot. Suzuka and Lancelot almost make it very much like Gundam, especially since it follows the general theme of kid & prototype robot. My bet's that we're going to be seeing a ton of 7th generation Knightmares that're going to have Lancelot's abilities, and Lulu's going to be piloting one of them. Eventually there'll be a mecha showdown in some high powered Knightmares. Furthermore, Knightmares, much like mobile suits, are essential for victory to the armed forces of all the factions. Even the Black Knights have them now. Thus, their importance is highlighted.

As for supposed spoilers from certain sources, take them with a grain of salt. Some are true like the rather messy Strike Freedom image scan that showed up at Gundam Watch. Some aren't true, like the as previously mentioned Fortune Gundam.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

I wouldn't believe that to be true somewhat. Here's why: Lelouch has the Geass ability has his significant power while Suzuka has Lancelot. Suzuka and Lancelot almost make it very much like Gundam, especially since it follows the general theme of kid & prototype robot. My bet's that we're going to be seeing a ton of 7th generation Knightmares that're going to have Lancelot's abilities, and Lulu's going to be piloting one of them.

Why would Lulu be getting the best mecha? After all, he already gave away CL MkII to Kallen.

Further, Lancelot tech belongs to the Britannian side. There is a reason the 11s prefer their own mechs... National pride and all. At most, it would be the radiation wave weapons that would be given to the Black Knights en-masse.

This show ISN'T gundam, because frankly Lulu isn't very good as a pilot. There would be fighting, but the latest episode was more than enough evidence to show Lelouch is far from an Ace. Strategy is what he does best, like how Lex Luthor uses his intellect to fight Superman's physical might.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Why would Lulu be getting the best mecha? After all, he already gave away CL MkII to Kallen.

I didn't say that Lulu would get the best mecha. I'm just saying that he'll eventually get one once the 7th generation Knightmares become more common.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Further, Lancelot tech belongs to the Britannian side. There is a reason the 11s prefer their own mechs... National pride and all. At most, it would be the radiation wave weapons that would be given to the Black Knights en-masse.

Reverse engineering anyone? Not that hard to copy. ZAFT did it, the Neo Zeeks did it, the EA did it, the Titans did it, Zeon remnants did it... and so on and so on...

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

his show ISN'T gundam, because frankly Lulu isn't very good as a pilot. There would be fighting, but the latest episode was more than enough evidence to show Lelouch is far from an Ace. Strategy is what he does best, like how Lex Luthor uses his intellect to fight Superman's physical might.

There really isn't enough information as is to justify that. Especially since the Burai vs. Lancelot wasn't even a fair fight.

[Majek]

To reverse engineer something you have to have the suit, os unless Lancelot is destroyed or captured they can't reverse engineer anything.

why would Lulu be tunred into an ace pilot? That woulnd't make any sense. All this time it's been shown how his brain is better of that his brawn and now he should be turned into a ace pilot oever night? bah.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by Majek

To reverse engineer something you have to have the suit, os unless Lancelot is destroyed or captured they can't reverse engineer anything.

Not necessarily the suit, but the data & specifications on the suit. It's a matter as to exactly how it was built. That's why reverse engineers take these captures suits apart to understand the functionality of every part and why it was put there. Also the probability that the Lancelot will remain being the only 7th generation Knightmare in the series is extremely unlikely. There are going to be more, thus the chances that one can be captured or destroyed increases along with the chance that some data is stolen by spies.

Look at it this way: Back in the days of Lockheed Skunk Work's Have Blue & the F-117, nobody really had the ability to duplicate that level of stealth technology. Not even the majority of the American companies such as Northrop Grumman had the ability to get it as effective as what Ben Rich & Co. did. Yet now both China and Russia are developing their own stealth aircraft. The same thing goes for nuclear weaponry technolgy. Only America really had the technology in the beginning, then Russia acquired the technology thanks to a few traitors and then went back around and produced the more powerful thermonuclear weapon.

Originally Posted by Majek

Why would Lulu be tunred into an ace pilot? That woulnd't make any sense. All this time it's been shown how his brain is better of that his brawn and now he should be turned into a ace pilot oever night? bah.

I'm just saying it's not right to judge the abilities of Lulu's piloting yet. He hasn't really been in a situation where he's going one on one (ie not being horribly outnumbered) with a suit of equal quality.

[Majek]

YOu can't be a good pilot without good fitness and training. He lacks both. The frame won't make any difference. He's not meant to be a great pilot so he never will be.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

Not necessarily the suit, but the data & specifications on the suit. It's a matter as to exactly how it was built. That's why reverse engineers take these captures suits apart to understand the functionality of every part and why it was put there. Also the probability that the Lancelot will remain being the only 7th generation Knightmare in the series is extremely unlikely. There are going to be more, thus the chances that one can be captured or destroyed increases along with the chance that some data is stolen by spies.



I'm just saying it's not right to judge the abilities of Lulu's piloting yet. He hasn't really been in a situation where he's going one on one (ie not being horribly outnumbered) with a suit of equal quality.

1. There is ALREADY a 7th Generation Knightmare for the 11s, in the form of CLMkII. That was what I am trying to say; Lancelot would not be the basis of future Knightmare development for the Kyoto engineers if only out of national pride. To copy the enemy would be flattery, and you know you wouldn't want to flatter your enemy.

2. Have you ever considered, perhaps, Lelouch had been avoiding going one-on-one with an enemy suit of equal quality for a reason?
Lelouch fight on the front lines for improving troop morale, but otherwise he isn't contributing a great deal firepower-wise. Lulu know his own limitations, and is not going on a Knightmare duel no more than Lex Luthor would be willing to arm-wrestle Superman.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by Majek

YOu can't be a good pilot without good fitness and training. He lacks both. The frame won't make any difference. He's not meant to be a great pilot so he never will be.

The combat effectiveness is defined as the abilities of the pilot combined with the abilities of the weapon he's using. You have to take both into account. Weapon performance can't be ignored. Heck even an ace pilot like Char Aznable couldn't manage to kill a rookie teenager in a brand new mobile suit at the beginning of Gundam.

Also, like any fighter pilot would say, being a good pilot comes from your ability to visualize where you & your enemies be several seconds later, not from superior reflexes or superior fitness. Lulu's extremely sharp and has that kind of thinking capability, that's why I believe he has the potential.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

The combat effectiveness is defined as the abilities of the pilot combined with the abilities of the weapon he's using. You have to take both into account. Heck even an ace pilot like Char Aznable couldn't manage to kill a rookie teenager in a brand new mobile suit at the beginning of Gundam.

Also, like any fighter pilot would say, being a good pilot comes from your ability to visualize where you & your enemies be several seconds later, not from superior reflexes or superior fitness.

i kind of disagree with that, Lelouch isnt the kind of person to be a soldier hes more the kind that uses his brains and leads fighters rather than doing that himself, the whole point of a rebelion comes from a squad of people and a good leader, yes lelouch can pilot but not as good as for example Suzuka or Kallen, thats exactly th reason why he gave the CL MkII to Kallen, if Lelouch would go into the battle field and fight allong side of the others he wouldnt have a good prspective on whats happening on the battle field because he is also the leader of the rebellion, the differene between Suzuka and Lelouch would be that Lelouch is more brains and Suzuka more muscle, also said, Lelouch has great perspective in tactics and battle while Suzuka has more potential in fighting an opponent with Lancelot and follow orders rather than leading

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

The combat effectiveness is defined as the abilities of the pilot combined with the abilities of the weapon he's using. Also, like any fighter pilot would say, being a good pilot comes from your ability to visualize where you'll be several seconds later, not from reflexes or superior fitness.

But then, had Lulu demonstrated any such skills thus far?
Seriously, I have no idea how you came to determine Lulu to be an Ace when 12 episodes later, he had not demonstrated any such capabilities.

Lelouch can put up a fight when needed, but he is a Chess King, not a Queen, Rook or Bishop. Other than you confusing Code Geass for a gundam show, I fail to see how anyone would determine Lulu to be a great pilot. And no, it is too late to power-boost him now. If he had potential, it would have needed to be shown within the last few months of episodes to maintain consistency.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by -KarumA-

i kind of disagree with that, Lelouch isnt the kind of person to be a soldier hes more the kind that uses his brains and leads fighters rather than doing that himself, the whole point of a rebelion comes from a squad of people and a good leader, yes lelouch can pilot but not as good as for example Suzuka or Kallen, thats exactly th reason why he gave the CL MkII to Kallen, if Lelouch would go into the battle field and fight allong side of the others he wouldnt have a good prspective on whats happening on the battle field because he is also the leader of the rebellion, the differene between Suzuka and Lelouch would be that Lelouch is more brains and Suzuka more muscle, also said, Lelouch has great perspective in tactics and battle while Suzuka has more potential in fighting an opponent with Lancelot and follow orders rather than leading

Karen's ability comes from the fact that she's pretty smart too. Afterall she gets perfect scores at school. When she got the Guren II, she managed to go toe to toe with the Lancelot even though there was still a big difference in performance. The fact that Lelouch gave it to her is the fact that someone has to lead. If he took the Guren II himself he would have to focus more on fighting instead of leading entire troops. There hasn't been a sitation yet where he can focus on a micro level. Thus, we can't fully determine his abilities.

By all means too, stop taking the Burai vs. Lancelot as an example. The Lancelot's on a whole higher level of performance than those Burais or Sutherlands. It has the technology to give it the edge such as light wave defense systems, vibro weapons that can cut through anything, and a gun that rivals the firepower of the VSBR (lol) that none of these other Knightmares have. Even against professional soldiers like those Purists who were after Orange, he could've taken out that whole lot with that huge difference in performance.

Smarts is what seperates the pilots from the mud marchers (ground troops), you can be strong all you want but that ultimately isn't the biggest factor. I predict Suzuka's stupidity is going to result in someone beating him by exploiting his obvious weaknesses much in the fashion similar to Shinn Asuka taking out Kira Yamato in episode 34 of Gundam Seed Destiny.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

Smarts is what seperates the pilots from the mud marchers (ground troops), you can be strong all you want but that ultimately isn't the biggest factor. I predict Suzuka's stupidity is going to result in someone beating him by exploiting his obvious weaknesses much in the fashion similar to Shinn Asuka taking out Kira Yamato in episode 34 of Gundam Seed Destiny.

First,(off-topic)

Spoiler:

I resent the fact that you describe Kira's distaste of taking human lives as a weakness. Even more so when you consider that a sign of stupidity.

Second, there are ways of exploiting one's own intelligence in combat, but you are somehow suggesting Zero would need to go dueling just because he is smart.

Why would Lelouch need to duel Suzaku? You might as well suggest Batman should take Superman on in a boxing match. This isn't Gundam; there are plenty of ways to crush your enemy before the battle even begins. Please, TRY to remember that this isn't a Gundam series.

Let me reiterate; storytelling conventions requires that any of the main character's talents pivotal to the future plot need to at least be hinted at in the first half of the story. Lelouch had not once been shown to be superior in combat compared to any of his bodyguards (using the same Knightmares) to this point, and this it would be ridiculous for him to become a champion pilot above all others within the next 12 episodes. Next season? Perhaps, but that would depend on the length of time-gap.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

First,(off-topic)

Spoiler:

I resent the fact that you describe Kira's distaste of taking human lives as a weakness. Even more so when you consider that a sign of stupidity.

Absolutely no comment whatsoever. I really don't want this to turn into a flame war.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Second, there are ways of exploiting one's own intelligence in combat, but you are somehow suggesting Zero would need to go dueling just because he is smart.

I haven't even stated that once. I'm saying that it's really not a good idea right now to determine Lelouch's ability as a pilot to be utterly crappy. There's isn't enough evidence as it is given that there was no virtually no situations where it could be determined.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Why would Lelouch need to duel Suzaku? You might as well suggest Batman should take Superman on in a boxing match. This isn't Gundam; there are plenty of ways to crush your enemy before the battle even begins. Please, TRY to remember that this isn't a Gundam series.

What the heck does this even have to do with what I said before? You're missing my point.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

I haven't even stated that once. I'm saying that it's really not a good idea right now to determine Lelouch's ability as a pilot.

Ah, but you are the one who suggest Lelouch would become a good pilot. As you are the person making the claim, you have to be the one supplying the evidence. Just saying "but you can't prove he can't be a good pilot" isn't good enough. This is basic argument rules.

If you can't determine his ability as a pilot, then you can't determine he woud be a good pilot. Thus, you just disproved yourself.

[Dis Astranagant]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Ah, but you are the one who suggest Lelouch would become a good pilot. As you are the person making the claim, you have to be the one supplying the evidence. Just saying "but you can't prove he can't be a good pilot" isn't good enough. This is basic argument rules.

If you can't determine his ability as a pilot, then you can't determine he woud be a good pilot. Thus, you just disproved yourself.

I said he had potential to be a good pilot. I'm stating that he has all the qualities to do so. This is my counter argument to the assumption that he's going to be a bad one.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dis Astranagant

I said he had potential to be a good pilot so counter argue the fact that the general conclusion is that he's a bad pilot.

Potential = not yet expressed. Thus, Lelouch is still a bad pilot right now. Thus Lelouch being a bad pilot is still an accurate statement.

Further, there is no reason why the potential you see would ever be expressed. The lack of certainty means Lelouch could still be a bad pilot by the time ep 52 had come and gone, as such the counter argument fails.

To wrap it up:
1. Lulu is, at present, a bad pilot.
2. You claim he could become a good pilot, which may or may not occur.
3. There is no reason why Lelouch would actually become a good pilot, as there is no plot necessity and there had been no hints in the story so far either. Thus it weakens your claim.