2006-12-13, 12:13 | Link #21 |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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I know you're talking about the Sand Shield Suna.
I'm not saying the Sand is still moving around Gaara, I'm saying Gaara uses this sand for something else. The attacks were still blocked by the sand, it just covered directly his body instead of flying around. And Gaara can manipulate this Sand, heck he even carved his fronthead with it. This is the Sand made of tons of old chakra Deidara talked about. |
2006-12-13, 13:10 | Link #22 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I see I see.. carving his forehead is correct... but still, many more times it was said, even by gaara himself, that it moves without his will. Its true he carved his kanji on his head, but man... that is directly in opposition to what gaara and everyone says about his sand defense. I'm going to have to sit on this one for a while... I mean... man! From what we've seen, its automatic, even sort of ethereal stuff since it just appears out of nowhere.
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2006-12-13, 13:13 | Link #23 | |
Infraction
Join Date: Dec 2006
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2006-12-13, 13:48 | Link #24 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
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2006-12-13, 14:58 | Link #25 | ||
Searching for the Cure
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington
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Regular sharingan can use high level genjutsu while still having dodging capabilities, why would it be any different for MS. In all rationality it seems more like MS activates stronger jutsu for the eye for a short period of time, sacrificing a lot of chakra. |
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2006-12-13, 15:09 | Link #27 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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No no.. maybe you guys don't see my problem. I'm upset because the shield of sand is not under gaara's control. its not like the armor of sand which he packs on his skin. Its not like the sand he carries on his back in his gourd. its weird in that... for example, if gaara decided to shed his armor of sand, drop his gourd at home, and literally not have a speck of sand on him, if attacked, the shield of sand would still activate. It would almost literally materialize out of the air. Gaara can use other sand to block, but that special automatic sand is not the same sand. Gaara has no control over that particular sand, none whatsoever. Thats what is said. Remember how he tried to kill and harm himself. If he had control over the shield, he could just tell it to stop or have it go left, while he stabbed himself on the right. But he can't... he said so himself. The shield moves automatically.
If he did carve that kanji, I'd have to assume another source of sand. Anyway, we do know that different types of sand are under different levels of control. The blood soaked sand is the best controlled (thats the stuff in his gourd). The shield of sand however is not under any sort of control. |
2006-12-13, 15:58 | Link #28 |
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Gaara has control over all sand. That includes regular chakra controlled sand and the special sand from his gourd (which is the same thing as armour sand and shield sand btw). The only exception is if Gaara tries to harm himself. If he does this, then the will of the Shukaku (or possibly Gaara's mother) overrides his control and protects him. For this same reason it is unlikely he can completely remove the gourd from his back, since it not only carries the sand but is made of the special sand itself. If tried to remove it would just continue to follow him in the form of sand. So he can use it just like any other sand, though Deidara notes it is much faster and deadlier when he uses the special sand.
As for losing other Sharingan abilities while performing MS, that remains to be seen but I don't think it works that way. It seems like Kakashi would've pointed out this weakness when he was talking to Itachi or when he used it himself. |
2006-12-13, 17:55 | Link #29 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Honestly I think you're wrong. Here's why.
1)I've seen him take of his gourd. He was talking to lee after the kimimaro fight and took it off. 2)as a child, we saw gaara without his gourd almost every time but never saw say "a trail of sand" or something of the like. Its true the gourd is made up of sand he manipulates, but I don't think it has anything to do with the shield of sand. 3)if he could control it, he could still send all the sand left and harm himself to the right. but he can't. In fact, the shield of sand is completely different from the armor of sand. The armor is not automatic. Gaara decides whether to wear it or not. The shield is automatic and appears even in sandless situations. Its very troubling to me (especially since it didn't exactly help against akatsuki). Yet we know that if gaara is sleeping or something and I kick him, the shield will block it. Very weird. Anyway, the special sand we talk about is that blood soaked sand. Thats the sand he and shukaku have the best control over. Again I refer to the shield activating in a sandless situation. Gaara can take off his gourd, he can rid himself of sand, and yet sand will appear to protect him. |
2006-12-13, 18:30 | Link #30 | |
kita kita oyaji
Join Date: Jan 2006
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my opinion is that the 3 tomoe matured sharingan is enough to copy any non-bloodline jutsus. So it would be wasting chakra to including the same ability in MS while an uchiha can just save a lot more chakra in using his normal sharingan for copying purpose, and MS for something else. |
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2006-12-14, 03:29 | Link #31 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
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It, doesn't, matter. No one can put together an argument backed up by facts so it's all useless speculation. MS isn't used for more than 2 seconds, so it doesn't matter anyway. |
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2006-12-14, 06:39 | Link #32 | |
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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The Sand that protects Gaara automatically doesn't appear out of nothing and isn't particular in anyway. Most of the time it's from his old chakra-sand simply because it's the closest and fastest but what protect Gaara is sand in general. If Gaara directly uses the sand at his disposition to do something else then that's what the sand will do, that's why Naruto was able to punch him at the hospital for example, because he was already using his sand to cover Rock Lee. Gaara used not to be able to control his sand when he was young. That's why everybody was afraid of him because he could wound and kill people on childish whims even if he didn't really wanted to. That's why before he killed his uncle he wasn't able to wound himself whereas once he decided to be a demon he took control of his sand to carve his face. To summarize if Gaara doesn't control the sand it will try to protect him automatically but if Gaara take control of it, the sand will act at his will. |
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2006-12-14, 08:56 | Link #34 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Age: 33
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2006-12-14, 09:22 | Link #35 | |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Also, if gaara did gain control over the sand, why would even he say it moves regardless of his will? the rhetoric implies that even if he wanted to stop it, he couldn't, ie during those times he wanted to die or hurt himself. |
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2006-12-14, 09:57 | Link #36 | ||
Bubbly and super fun
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
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There is sand everywhere, how do you think he broke the bones of the kid he wanted to play with, butchered a guy a little after that and crushed his uncle later? Quote:
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2006-12-14, 14:46 | Link #37 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Well I was referring to that specific instance in his house where he tried to stab himself. No sand in the room, no armor of sand, no sand trail or sand deposit in a corner by the fireplace..... its a real mystery where that sand came from. Even more how it moves at light speed. I remember the image of the guy with the bomb and gaara is like 1 feet away with no sand in sight, and it still protected him...
But I'm beginning to side with you guys that gaara has a little control over the automatic sand defense. The best example is during the chuunin exams against sasuke, when he found that the shield of sand wasn't fast enough to protect him, he decided to use it to form a permanent ball. We know that this ball is still the shield of sand because it was responsive to sasuke's movements and attacks (ie, gaara wasn't controlling it as he can't see sasuke inside that ball). Maybe a little control... |
2006-12-14, 18:48 | Link #38 | |
Ultimate sand beast
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lusitania
Age: 35
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2006-12-16, 15:01 | Link #39 |
Akatsuki Bart is Tobi
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Gaara certainly controls the armor of sand. Thats a technique he developed later. As a child however, he most likely never had it; the chakra consumption alone.... However, as a child he did have the automatic sand defense. Just for clarification, I was questioning his level of control. As a child, gaara carried no gourd, had no armor of sand, and even in a closed sandless room the sand defense was there in full force. Remember how much sand blocked the knife or the explosion and remember that it just mysteriously disappears? Anyway, before there was a question about perhaps aloss of ability with the MS conformation compared to the normal sharingan. Ipointed out that losses of ability with transformations aren't that bad. Gaara seems to lose his automatic sand defense when he transforms to a mini shukaku. Then hunter, said he doesn't as he has control even over the automatic sand defense. He makes the excellent point that gaara used that very same sand to carve the kanji on his forehead. Nonetheless, while I see Hunter (and subaku kyu's) points and am beginning to slide over to their camp, I'm still not entirely bought. I'm having a hard time getting over the heavily repeated statement that the shield moves regardless of gaara's will and the fact that even as child it was present in so much force despite the times where sand wasn't all that present. As a child, gaara did not have the armor of sand and he did not have the gourd. In a closed room, where did the sand come from and in so much force?
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2006-12-16, 22:45 | Link #40 | |
Hokage
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA, NewJersey
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