Archived Index LN Future Volume Speculation/Theories

[Mr.Kyon]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I wonder who would be the equivalent of Level 6 from magic side

Unless there's a way for magicians to make use of the Pure World (through the secrets Aiwass gave to Aleister via the Book of the Law?), the answer might be that there isn't an equivalent position.

That would explain why Aleister left the Magic Side: he realized that the filters (religions) limit how powers are used. That's pretty much what he told Fiamma at the end of Volume 22. Power wasn't the problem with Fiamma, it's how he used it. And the filter of Christianity limited how he could use it. The Pure World doesn't have that problem. And whatever is Aleister's end goal, he probably realized that he couldn't reach it when limited by filters.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon

Unless there's a way for magicians to make use of the Pure World (through the secrets Aiwass gave to Aleister via the Book of the Law?), the answer might be that there isn't an equivalent position.

I'm sure there is. Afterall Aleister said the horus started with the Book of Law and at that time he was a magician when he summoned Aiwass, it was after his defeat/illusion break that he switched from magic to science.

What that could mean? A defeat of course, one that¡s soooooo big that Aleister rage quit from magic.

Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon

That would explain why Aleister left the Magic Side: he realized that the filters (religions) limit how powers are used. That's pretty much what he told Fiamma at the end of Volume 22. Power wasn't the problem with Fiamma, it's how he used it. And the filter of Christianity limited how he could use it.

Aleister based his reserach on the Thelema so those layer shouldn't be a problem even more after reaching Horus, what he said about Fiamma's format being wrong not the magic being wrong that's why Aleister didn't say "Hey Fiamma, you're using magic so you fail" but "The method was right but your Osiris was outdated.

Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon

The Pure World doesn't have that problem. And whatever is Aleister's end goal, he probably realized that he couldn't reach it when limited by filters.

No, the pure world is Aleisters vision of a world of science only, there can be also its opposite that would be a pure world of magic.

Actually I think Aleister just was a whiner who gave up after a defeat thus Aiwass trolls him. There was a way but Aleister gave up and chose a different path.

[zaeraal]

I think you all need to rethink Touma's experiences:

Originally Posted by js06

And in the afterword, Kamachi says Touma's position has gone well beyond that of a movie kung fu master or an immortal loli who speaks like an old woman.
Kamachi says he doesn't need to change how Touma acts because he thinks Touma would act and speak the same even as an old man.

Even Kamachi acknowledged he is pretty much super human now.

Just because he fought with only Othinus does not mean he can only fight against him.
When you train some martial art you also train with "one master" but the skills learned are usable on all people.

PS he didn't fought only Othinus, but all the people that attacked him in those worlds too.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by zaeraal

I think you all need to rethink Touma's experiences:



Even Kamachi acknowledged he is pretty much super human now.

Just because he fought with only Othinus does not mean he can only fight against him.
When you train some martial art you also train with "one master" but the skills learned are usable on all people.

PS he didn't fought only Othinus, but all the people that attacked him in those worlds too.

I guess you're right, but I'd like to throw out my personal opinion on how Touma keeps getting out of impossible situations. Maybe it's his bad luck. I originally came upon this opinion when I thought about luck. What would real misfortune be like? Making your life a living hell is a given, but would it really kill you immediately? A quick death would be fortunate since fortune no longer applies after death. Real misfortune would keep throwing Touma into these awful situations and let him make it out by the skin of his teeth just so it can throw him in again, never letting him die. A life filled with conflict that hurt, but never killed. Fukou da.

What do you guys think?

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by BW95

I guess you're right, but I'd like to throw out my personal opinion on how Touma keeps getting out of impossible situations. Maybe it's his bad luck. I originally came upon this opinion when I thought about luck. What would real misfortune be like? Making your life a living hell is a given, but would it really kill you immediately? A quick death would be fortunate since fortune no longer applies after death. Real misfortune would keep throwing Touma into these awful situations and let him make it out by the skin of his teeth just so it can throw him in again, never letting him die. A life filled with conflict that hurt, but never killed. Fukou da.

What do you guys think?

doesn't change how im disappointed with the author. i guess touMAN full potential as a character well never be used.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Goldzero

doesn't change how im disappointed with the author. i guess touMAN full potential as a character well never be used.

I don't get where all this disappointment is coming from. What would you do different?

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by BW95

I don't get where all this disappointment is coming from. What would you do different?

lets just let this go, i was just hoping that at the end, kamijou become a bit more twisted with more noticeable maturity. i was only hoping for some changes but not to mess with hes view or hes way of believe, but rather change of personalty as well. the guy suffered so many traumatizing death that makes other characters pale in comparison from what i seen. you can do so much more with him to if the author bothers to develop hes character much more instead, he progresses in glacier speed but the bright side is that if you look at touma from volume 1 to NT8, you get to see he had plenty of character development but still need some room for development.

still, i remember kamchi said at the end of the volume touma goes into extreme changes as a character, i just hope he wasn't trolling us....

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Goldzero

lets just let this go, i was just hoping that at the end, kamijou become a bit more twisted with more noticeable maturity. i was only hoping for some changes but not to mess with hes view or hes way of believe, but rather change of personalty as well. the guy suffered so many traumatizing death that makes other characters pale in comparison from what i seen. you can do so much more with him to if the author bothers to develop hes character much more instead, he progresses in glacier speed but the bright side is that if you look at touma from volume 1 to NT8, you get to see he had plenty of character development but still need some room for development.

still, i remember kamchi said at the end of the volume touma goes into extreme changes as a character, i just hope he wasn't trolling us....

He literally just said Touma's character will change a lot. He already said Touma will act like an old man. Also, I think that Touma's going to be more interesting as a result of what happened. Though, we still have no idea about how strong he actually is... so we'll have to wait to see that.

Also, it's pretty obvious Touma's character changed a lot. Kamachi doesn't have any reason, to not make it change a lot...

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by dniv

He literally just said Touma's character will change a lot. He already said Touma will act like an old man. Also, I think that Touma's going to be more interesting as a result of what happened. Though, we still have no idea about how strong he actually is... so we'll have to wait to see that.

Also, it's pretty obvious Touma's character changed a lot. Kamachi doesn't have any reason, to not make it change a lot...

kamachi stated it himself that touma doesn't need to change as a character so its obvious he isn't going to change much.

sucks, but lets hope that the rest of the volume takes away the sadden truth and be as enjoyable as the fans stated in japan.

though if he does act like an old man, that be great. but the question is.... well hes taste in woman change in general as well? you think woman in their 50's and 60's like young looking men?

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by dniv

He literally just said Touma's character will change a lot. He already said Touma will act like an old man. Also, I think that Touma's going to be more interesting as a result of what happened. Though, we still have no idea about how strong he actually is... so we'll have to wait to see that.

Also, it's pretty obvious Touma's character changed a lot. Kamachi doesn't have any reason, to not make it change a lot...

Have you read the new spoilers provided? its pretty disappointing

I will still wait for the next volume but just like what I said when we are talking.

Its half assed work >_>

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Have you read the new spoilers provided? its pretty disappointing

I will still wait for the next volume but just like what I said when we are talking.

Its half assed work >_>

i agree with you, but don't forgot the actual novel received very high praise. anyways , i really wanted touma to have such a major development. it disappoints me that the author is still holding him back to even this day.

[Miraluka]

Maybe people wanted Touma like this


I will destroy that illusions of yours!!

ATATATATATATATA!

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Maybe people wanted Touma like this


I will destroy that illusions of yours!!

ATATATATATATATA!

you seem to have an illusion, that kamijou isn't popular.

your illusion should be shattered. seriously though, why is it that you think people hate him as much as you think?

[Miraluka]

I was just joking :S.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

I was just joking :S.

not much to say now. all i can hope that everything else in the novel is exactly like the hype was given.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Have you read the new spoilers provided? its pretty disappointing

I will still wait for the next volume but just like what I said when we are talking.

Its half assed work >_>

Originally Posted by Goldzero

i agree with you, but don't forgot the actual novel received very high praise. anyways , i really wanted touma to have such a major development. it disappoints me that the author is still holding him back to even this day.

So, I read the spoilers before I said that.

You just both misinterpreted what he said and took it out of context. We have no idea what he said, means. I'm just guessing that what he meant is that Touma's idea of saving others won't change...

Touma already managed to learn how to be selfish in NT 9 which means he's already a completely different character.

Touma will be fundamentally the same person, but might have a lot of small character changes that add up in future situations volumes.

This is important. I'm happy he isn't changing. I was worried he would change and not have the same viewpoint on life. Kamachi is just saying that he'll continue to be our main protagonist, but that Touma will also of course have some minor changes (which might be important later...)

It's pretty obvious to me that Kamachi is downplaying this because normally the personality change would mean he isn't the same person at all... Kamachi always overdoes everything, so I'm not buying those spoilers are accurately conveying everything he's trying to say.

After reading the updates in the novel... (and we now had a Hera reference, queen of the Greek Gods , I definitely see foreshadowing ), this novel is/was gut-wrenching.

We've already got some new important information in the parts that just came out, and I see a lot more information there than the spoilers gave, so I'm already sure that whatever spoilers people are reading are giving an incomplete picture of what's going on.

We always know that Kamachi was fun with his afterwards anyway... and I'm waiting for the entire afterward before I judge sentences from it.

Also, Touma being more powerful can be taken to mean a lot of things. The way Kamachi said Touma is more powerful, doesn't really mean much. It could just mean that he's gotten much stronger in melee. It's still obvious there are things he can't handle. He's just much better at fighting now...

I feel like people who are under-rating this volume and subsequent events before reading it are ridiculous.

This volume has the most potential for the entire series, and right now given that everyone loves it, I'm sure that saying it's half-assed is just silly

Read it first!!! My god...

Spoilers are just spoilers even if they are translated by Js06... there isn't enough context until you read the entire LN...

[furaiz]

Touma learned to be selfish? I was pretty sure he was always being selfish, right from the start. Perhaps you mean he finally admitted it? Although I think he's mentioned it before, but correct me if I got that wrong.

The biggest thing I can see from NT9 is the way he's acting. Before, he was helping people, and equating that with being happy - even shown in the very first novel. The way he did it was as though 'I will be happy, if I can make everyone else happy' - which is selfish in some ways.

He isn't trying to make anyone happy anymore, not even himself, since Othinus isn't exactly a 'friend in need' just someone he can relate to. He's just doing what he thinks is right == what he wants. Even in the 'despair worlds' he focused on the goal of 'saving himself', but that was necessary. Repeat that in a 'timeless cycle of despair and suffering' and you get a Touma who does what he wants, although it'll be limited by the 'save people syndrome' that he's written with.

Resolve a conflict pre NT by getting everyone in an incident out well, in NT10, damn all who stands in his way from that point on. I wonder what a Touma completely desensitised from blood and gore and death can do hmm. (Wishful thinking, but he may just pick one person over another, rather than trying to save both when given the chance now.)

Feel free to correct or debate the point to be honest, it's just the way I see it so far.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

No, the pure world is Aleisters vision of a world of science only, there can be also its opposite that would be a pure world of magic.

Actually I think Aleister just was a whiner who gave up after a defeat thus Aiwass trolls him. There was a way but Aleister gave up and chose a different path.

The pristine world beyond the filters is not anyone's vision. It's how it is in its natural state.

Pure Science without religion. That's all....Nothing is stated whether there is magic there or not.

It's not Aleister making the world beneath the phases that way according to his vision.

He MAY be doing so, but it isn't confirmed what he's doing with it.

Just that by default, it is pure Science.

Aleister based his reserach on the Thelema so those layer shouldn't be a problem even more after reaching Horus, what he said about Fiamma's format being wrong not the magic being wrong that's why Aleister didn't say "Hey Fiamma, you're using magic so you fail" but "The method was right but your Osiris was outdated.

Like what Kyon said....Christian method is outdated because it's using Osiris Aeon.


The only thing that can be speculated from here is that the Horus Aeon is tied to the fundamental world.


The other Aeons are all tied to specific religions.




This is not the same as saying Magic is fail. Religion and Aeon is a method of wielding power that's all so saying religion = Magic is incorrect.


In fact if anyone can be said to be closest to wielding pure Magic, it's Othinius since she's adding phases....not operating under them. Although manipulating phases only means she isn't quite there yet in terms of reaching the true world.

I guess you're right, but I'd like to throw out my personal opinion on how Touma keeps getting out of impossible situations. Maybe it's his bad luck. I originally came upon this opinion when I thought about luck. What would real misfortune be like? Making your life a living hell is a given, but would it really kill you immediately? A quick death would be fortunate since fortune no longer applies after death. Real misfortune would keep throwing Touma into these awful situations and let him make it out by the skin of his teeth just so it can throw him in again, never letting him die. A life filled with conflict that hurt, but never killed. Fukou da.

What do you guys think?

If true then his poor luck would be the strongest force in all of To Aru verse

[dniv]

Originally Posted by furaiz

Touma learned to be selfish? I was pretty sure he was always being selfish, right from the start. Perhaps you mean he finally admitted it? Although I think he's mentioned it before, but correct me if I got that wrong.

The biggest thing I can see from NT9 is the way he's acting. Before, he was helping people, and equating that with being happy - even shown in the very first novel. The way he did it was as though 'I will be happy, if I can make everyone else happy' - which is selfish in some ways.

He isn't trying to make anyone happy anymore, not even himself, since Othinus isn't exactly a 'friend in need' just someone he can relate to. He's just doing what he thinks is right == what he wants. Even in the 'despair worlds' he focused on the goal of 'saving himself', but that was necessary. Repeat that in a 'timeless cycle of despair and suffering' and you get a Touma who does what he wants, although it'll be limited by the 'save people syndrome' that he's written with.

Resolve a conflict pre NT by getting everyone in an incident out well, in NT10, damn all who stands in his way from that point on. I wonder what a Touma completely desensitised from blood and gore and death can do hmm. (Wishful thinking, but he may just pick one person over another, rather than trying to save both when given the chance now.)

Feel free to correct or debate the point to be honest, it's just the way I see it so far.

First of, everyone is selfish then. When anyone helps someone else, they fundamentally motivate themselves to do it, because it relieves some part of them when they're helping someone else. True altruism psychologically doesn't exist; regardless because it's a stupid point to make, people still call altruism selfless even if people engage in it to ultimately please themselves.

So that's one way of saying I don't really agree with what you're saying at all. You're making Touma out to be a monster, from what I read. And you're making it look like Touma has all of these bad points and he just did what he wanted all of the time... so what? Everyone does that... The difference is that Touma saved people's lives. Sure, maybe by some questionable moral standards, Touma is a villain, but from the perspective of the people that he saved, they wouldn't see him as a villain especially given everything that he's done for them.

If you're saying Touma is a monster because he does what he wants, then you're basically saying Touma is human; except that he wants to protect other people naturally... yeah that's such a criticism and it makes him look really selfish.

Let me just defend my point of view, something I don't have the time to do right now... (exams...) but anyway... Touma wasn't selfish... he was pretty damn well arguably right in pretty much every decision he made that "selfishly" saved other people...

Look Aleister said that Touma is selfish, but Aleister's moral standards are scientific to the extreme and are pretty messed up. He's looking at this from a perspective completely removed from society, and honestly that view is somewhat sick/corrupted i.e. you can't identify with it unless you have such an apathy to moral goodness that you don't care about what happens in the world.

This is why I want to stress that as Birdway said it Kamijou Touma is insane--well, that's false, but close. Kamijou Touma is incomprehensible by most human beings on this planet. And by my guess it's the reason why he currently has Imagine Breaker. His personality likely matches up with it.

In the end, Touma is pragmatic... he doesn't care about formalities... he doesn't care about how he's supposed to act... he speaks his mind and stands up for what he thinks is right and takes action when it's necessary even if the person he's helping isn't comfortable with his help.

Those qualities are arguably selfish... and they are also arguably the most "just"/rational qualities that a person could have if that person wanted to help other people.

It's pretty much always the case that what Touma does is good; and it's mainly because he is pragmatic rather than idealistic when he goes about doing things. This makes him abnormal as a character because it makes him look a little selfish/insensitive... but I don't think anyone should dare to call that selfish, really

In NT 9, Touma wanting to survive is clearly not the entire story... you obviously are forgetting about the perfect world where he was ready to kill himself to try to save all of his friends (yeah that's totally selfish ).

In NT 9, Touma learned the ability to be selfish: i.e. the ability to not help other people all of the time, and to sometimes do things for himself. He didn't have that quality before, even at the end of NT 8 when Othinus was trying to destroy the world, he couldn't bear to do nothing or his mind would short-circuit.

This volume he gained the ability to not do his pre-set thing to be altruistic, and to instead care about himself a little bit. The way you talk about what Touma could do if he were de-sensitized is just plain stupid IMO. Any main character of a shonen series would beat the crap out of most of the world if they were de-sensitized to violence and wanted to fight for fun. Touma's not like that; he runs away from fights if he doesn't have to fight.

I don't have the time to flesh out this response, but I'm going to say that I see that you have something against Touma, and in my opinion it is mostly unjustified.

[LG-MAX]

reading these new spoiler I only have two things to say.

1 - I am anxious to see Touman test his fighting skills against ninjas.

2 - about change, until the next volumes will stay with that comment.

from what I understand of the spoiler, is not that the character (Touma) has not changed but that his way of speaking and acting is still a boy and not of one old man. This is fundamentally different.

only an ignorant would not see that Touma has undergone character development since the NT started, I think it is a common sense that this is the primary focus of this shit. of course this experience goes matures him, the issue is that each of us has a pattern itself. speaking for myself, I do not want an cool anti-hero that cursing everyone, etc. Touma is better than that.

ps: Mirakula was perfect with that image.