Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[0utf0xZer0]

Who here has been around long enough to remember when the first teaser for Clannad being released with the last episode of Kanon 2006, and how there were complaints about KyoAni wasting their talent on moe stuff instead of more Haruhi and FMP?

[Roger Rambo]

*watches the video*

That made me feel a little bit gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


As nice as another high quality Haruhi production would be (not that I expected another haruhi production anytime soon mind you), It's still nice to see Kyoto animation trying out something other than cute girls doing cute things. Even if it is just the opposite.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by AbZeroNow

Well, I hope Free! flops like Tamako Market so Kyoto Animation knows that it is wasting its time and precious resources adapting crap when it could have been animating Little Busters! or my long-awaited 3rd installment of the TV anime of Haruhi Suzumiya or even finishing up the Full Metal Panic story because FMP is awesome too.

I guess Kyoto Animation is showing that they'd rather do their own crap these days than finish up Haruhi like they should be doing. If this year ends without a Haruhi announcement, I swear I'm going to join some anti-KyoAni group or start hoping that PA Works or Silver Link is allowed to finish Haruhi.

So yeah, I'm bitter about this announcement.

Every other studio would kill to have their flops do what TamaKet has done.

[AbZeroNow]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Every other studio would kill to have their flops do what TamaKet has done.

I would conceed that point with studios like Manglobe, ZEXCS or DEEN and I am sure that JC Staff would love to trade Kill Me Baby for TamaKet.

However, do you really think SHAFT or Studio Khara would find 4k anywhere near acceptable for sales? Sure, if it was a low-budget anime, 4k would be fine and if you shovel out crap like DEEN, 4k is pretty decent.

I admit that my anger comes out of my strong bias towards getting more Haruhi. I agree with how Ultimatemegax would describe it "There's Haruhi and then there's other anime". If there wasn't this problem with Haruhi not being milked and as time passes, the Shana Effect becomes more of a danger to the franchise(basically, if you wait too long, the anime won't sell when you do finally come out with it. Named after Shana III), I would applaud their attempts at reaching new audiences and I would not take issue with Free! (I wouldn't watch it but I wouldn't hate it. Much like I have zero interest in Attack on Titan but I don't hate the show).

[hinode]

Shaft has a long, long list of shows that sold far worse than 4K, actually: Maria Holic, Natsu no Arashi, Arakawa Under the Bridge, ef: a tale of melodies, Popotan, Tsukiyomi Moon Phase, Sasami@Ganbarai... pretty sure there are more that I missed.

They really only have two blockbuster franchises: Madoka and Monogatari. After those, you have a huge dropoff to Negima!? at ~12.7K.

[Marcus H.]

My seishun points for today: -50 points for watching this video

[Ichuki]

I'm not too bitter about it, since it looks like an interesting premise in my opinion.

[Midonin]

The Free! (Kirara manga)/Free! (this) is a bit unfortunate. I understand not wanting to have two works on the market with the same name... but it's a Kirara manga, and I have a bit of a predisposition towards those. Hopefully it can pick up the pace when it resumes.

[brocko]

KyoAni moehaters finally got what they wanted right? Something non-moe out of them (be careful what you wish for i guess? lol)

Originally Posted by AbZeroNow

.....If there wasn't this problem with Haruhi not being milked and as time passes, the Shana Effect becomes more of a danger to the franchise(basically, if you wait too long, the anime won't sell when you do finally come out with it. Named after Shana III)....

To be fair, interest in the Shana franchise was already dropping off when the third season came. It'd peaked in popularity already and light novel sales were pretty much on the decline. When compared to Haruhi, I think the latest set of novels (10 and 11) managed to be the best selling ones so far, showing that it is still in fact growing. Shana never enjoyed the levels of success that the Haruhi franchise had anyway, so it's a little bit of an unfair comparison to make imo.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Who was it for then?

Personally, I think that KyoAni was intentionally trying to recapture the K-On! market with Tamako Market. The K-On! market ultimately included male otakus as well as a more general audience (as evidenced by K-On actually airing on the Japanese version of the Disney Channel).

I think the hope with Tamako Market was that the high school girl characters (many of which bore striking resemblances to specific K-On characters, imo) would be enough to bring back many of the same otakus who bought K-On, while the strong family-focused feel of the show would also win over general audiences.

Unfortunately for KyoAni, this was not the case. I do recall Tamako Market often feeling like a very family-oriented show (the adult characters were numerous, and actually of some importance), and maybe some otakus in Japan felt that made it something "not for them".

This obviously isn't for them at all

Right. And so will brand loyalty start (continue?) to deteriorate for KyoAni amongst hardcore moe fans?

Back in 2007-to-2009, I think that KyoAni had an uniquely strong brand image amongst the otaku fanbase, that gave it a real leg-up on the direct competition (which I think contributed to Clannad blowing ef and True Tears totally out of the water, commercially speaking).

There was a time when KyoAni was the undisputed "King of Moe", imo. Due to various factors - Most beyond KyoAni's control, in fairness - That has really changed in the last few years.

So should KyoAni respond to this by trying to win back their "King of Moe" standing, or should they respond to this by trying to win over a new customerbase that may be fairly large itself? It's an interesting question, and it's one that I personally take a cautious "wait and see" approach to.

Brand image can be hugely important, and when trying to expand your brand, you have to be careful that you don't water it down in the process.

There is definitely a female fanbase in Japan that we saw from the success of things like Kuroko no Basket and Tiger and Bunny.

I agree, but at the same time, there have been fujoshi-focused shows that didn't do all that well. Including recent ones. K strikes me as a show that one could understandably think would appeal to fujoshis, but I don't recall it selling all that well.

I think musouka may well have a point. I think that fusoshis might be a more discerning/more "picky" (pick whichever way of putting it you prefer ) audience than what they might be being thought as.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

It's a perfect comparison! Because, you see, KyoAni is about as much of a "moe studio" as JC Staff is a Rie Kugimiya studio, that is to say, not at all.

Come on, this is just silly.

Discounting Munto, here are KyoAni's first 10 works:

Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu
Full Metal Panic!: The Second Raid
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Kanon
Lucky Star
Clannad
Clannad After Story
K-On!
K-On!!

Of these 10 shows, all but one have substantial moe elements (and even the one exception had "cute girls" in it). Many could be legitimately considered "moe-centric".

KyoAni's brand image as "King of Moe" was well-earned. Their actual resume of work was absolutely loaded with moe.

One final note... This is coming from a moe fan.

Far more often than not, I like moe. So this isn't me criticizing KyoAni. In fact, this is me giving them their due credit.

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by AbZeroNow

I would conceed that point with studios like Manglobe, ZEXCS or DEEN and I am sure that JC Staff would love to trade Kill Me Baby for TamaKet.

However, do you really think SHAFT or Studio Khara would find 4k anywhere near acceptable for sales? Sure, if it was a low-budget anime, 4k would be fine and if you shovel out crap like DEEN, 4k is pretty decent.

It's advised well that you shouldn't try to bring this up unless you can generate some legit numbers directly from them. Trust me. This is what /a/ generally babbles about all the time and this goes absolutely nowhere.

You don't know figures. You don't know how much they're getting. Or Where the revenues are exactly coming from. You can't exactly pin point if there will be a loss.

I've seen everything about this topic and generally no matter how civil the discussion was, it's all just speculations and theories which will never be proven true no matter what since there will be no confirmations to them.

[Pocari_Sweat]

I'm not gonna repeat anything, but I must note that I find it absolutley hilarious that the opening song is called "Rage on".

I wonder if Kyoani themselves are rubbing it in for its haters?

[Marcus H.]

I agree, but at the same time, there have been fujoshi-focused shows that didn't do all that well. Including recent ones. K strikes me as a show that one could understandably think would appeal to fujoshis, but I don't recall it selling all that well.

K is a multimedia franchise, though. Their drama CDs, the manga and the light novels are all decent sellers.

I wonder if Kyoani themselves are rubbing it in for its haters?

It's like in Aku no Hana: "Please stay tuned in, shit eaters."

Hana ga saita yo.

And it looks like 2013 is gonna be the year of trolling the fanbase.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

And it looks like 2013 is gonna be the year of trolling the fanbase.

Judging from the online reactions, if trolling is what KyoAni was going for, then they should win a huge award.

Anyways, I totally didn't expect this to actually become anime...but I'll have to watch it now for fun and hype.

[Marcus H.]

Anyways, I totally didn't expect this to actually become anime...but I'll have to watch it now for fun and hype.

I'll go with this just like in Aku no Hana. Watching it for the controversy.

[rulfo]

Oh it seems like something's coming up and the title conflicted with another IP from another company.

Spoiler for Free!:

Well this is what they both get for such an unimaginative title. Rumors now going on about that the reason why IP went on hiatus was due to KyoAni pressure or what. Oh boy... let's see where this is going.

[Guardian Enzo]

If they had any sense of humor, they would have titled it "The Swimming Anime"...

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

If they had any sense of humor, they would have titled it "The Swimming Anime"...

Ouran High School Swim Club.

[brocko]

Originally Posted by rulfo

Oh it seems like something's coming up and the title conflicted with another IP from another company.

Spoiler for Free!:

Well this is what they both get for such an unimaginative title. Rumors now going on about that the reason why IP went on hiatus was due to KyoAni pressure or what. Oh boy... let's see where this is going.

I can just picture it now. KyoAni mob bosses kicking down the door of the poor upstarting Mangaka.
"This title. You can't use it no more."

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

*snip*

Just because most of a studio's works have characters that people generally consider moe does not make them a "moe studio" or "The King of Moe" or what have you.
Moe isn't a genre. It is something people feel for characters in a given show. It is not something that should be used to define a show itself.
FMP is a mecha comedy, Haruhi is a sci-fi comedy, Lucky Star is a reference comedy, the Key adaptations are character dramas with light comedy, and K-On is a slice-of-life music comedy.... if anything they're a "comedy studio".
And by the way, you can't be a "moe fan". What does that even mean?