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Random14 · 2021-06-19, 20:14

The first half of the episode dragged a bit for me, after how last week already showed their life outside the 86th sector. Well, the lead-up to Fido's death was worth it, but that was only half an episode.

I didn't expect another episode next week, this already seems like an appropriate ending point, for both the season and even for the series if more episodes weren't already confirmed and if there wasn't already a lot more source material to adapt (if they wanted to). An uncertain fate for the last five of Spearhead, and Lena determined to carry on. Not like house arrest (and whatever other punishment they come up with) matters, not with her knowing the Legion will really invade eventually.

Nice to see Lena visit their barracks, too bad she couldn't see them in person but at least its a more direct handover, with her adopting their cat too. Not sure what else they'll do, things are already set for the next arc (whichever direction the anime goes).

Frontier · 2021-06-19, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random14

Not like house arrest (and whatever other punishment they come up with) matters, not with her knowing the Legion will really invade eventually.

I guess the saving grace of the Republic being so lax with the military is they probably don't see a point in punishing Lena too severely. Even her "house arrest" isn't serious enough that she can't fly over to Spearhead's base on her own.

Gerard07 · 2021-06-19, 22:57

Having seen the chapter, I really liked these last chapters, Shin's meeting with his brother, Fido's death (I think it's the death that moved me the most), now Lena visiting the base of the 86, in short, to expect more from this anime.
Question, this chapter apparently does not coincide with the end of volume 1, do you think that what the special chapter will be about next week?.

HtwoN · 2021-06-19, 23:08

So the Republic uses English and the Empire uses Japanese. Interesting.

Great "final". The show could just end here and it would be perfectly fine.

Frontier · 2021-06-19, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HtwoN

So the Republic uses English and the Empire uses Japanese. Interesting.

Great "final". The show could just end here and it would be perfectly fine.

I guess it would explain some of the Eighty-Six having Japanese names.

Tenzen12 · 2021-06-20, 02:44

Not everyone though, 86 refer any non Alba and Empire immigrants are just one subset of them.

Calca · 2021-06-20, 03:23

Ugh, this is why I try to avoid tragedy animes/mangas. Don't like feeling like crap afterwards.

Last Sinner · 2021-06-20, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

I can see how this could have been a hell of an ending if the 86ers cast was endearing, but I didn't find them to be as such. As to the military industrial complex and Lena's role in it, I found that to be a bit more interesting

Therein lies an effectively fatal flaw with 86. Could you at least make me care, cast? Life isn't fair, humans can be utter scum. So could you give me something about you all, some actual time so I can be made to care? It is an indictment that Fido was the one that actually got something to make me want to remember it. Any character that wasn't Lena never got their chance for long enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

Yes, it would have been depressing but I like that kind of ending sometimes.

There are titles that do it well. If they don't just focus on the deaths and melodrama, as well as actually develop its cast and world.

This was okay to see once, but I am very done with it.

Frontier · 2021-06-20, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Therein lies an effectively fatal flaw with 86. Could you at least make me care, cast? Life isn't fair, humans can be utter scum. So could you give me something about you all, some actual time so I can be made to care? It is an indictment that Fido was the one that actually got something to make me want to remember it. Any character that wasn't Lena never got their chance for long enough.

I mean, I feel like the scenes of them as a group, both overt and subtle, were able to capture that well (especially the school scene) but to each their own

.

Kakurin · 2021-06-20, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

It is an indictment that Fido was the one that actually got something to make me want to remember it. Any character that wasn't Lena never got their chance for long enough.

It's your opinion that you don't care about Shin, Raiden, Kurena, Anju or Theo and that's to be respected. However, the reasoning for your opinion is a bit funny to see considering that you criticize that nobody other than Lena got their chance for long enough while pointing out Fido who clearly got less screen time / focus than the five human members of Spearhead squadron. And the screen time they got is in no way less than what Lena got. Heck, they got an entire episode just for them last week.

So the reason for you not caring about them is not for reason of the story not trying like you are trying to insinuate.

Last Sinner · 2021-06-20, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin

It's your opinion that you don't care about Shin, Raiden, Kurena, Anju or Theo and that's to be respected.

There were moments I did. When they actually had moments to show any form of personality/uniqueness. When they were actually allowed to be more than mere melodrama vessels.

You know why Episode 12 was effective? It gave the characters a chance to stop being one-tone for longer than one minute. A bit more of that earlier on and a proper bond could have been established. You don't start doing that at minutes to midnight.

Shin was given some motivations, backstory, bite. At least he stood out. At least he had a relatable goal. Pity it was used up so cheaply but at least he had them. And having those made Shin feel like a character that some empathy could be given to.

I really wanted to give a damn about this show for the long run. But if you're going to pretend to build up something, then burn through it before it got a chance to build and end with bonding that was badly needed far earlier, it's merely sigh worthy.

Frontier · 2021-06-20, 12:34

I mean, I think the core five of the team that we ended up with got enough characterization and moments to stand out amidst the drama (albeit they deal with a lot), which is probably why they were the last ones to survive to begin with

.

serenade_beta · 2021-06-20, 23:47

Spoiler for final thoughts:

Yeah, so there are like 10 volumes or so of this anime.
And they only animated like 1 volume?

Having 2-cour means you have time to show a lot of story. Having 2-cour doesn't mean you should move at a snails pace. So what, are they gonna spend the 2nd cour on one volume, and be the legendary series that used 2-cour for 2-volumes?
What a waste. There are so many stories out there that would kill to get 2-cour. This anime gets that. And then wastes it.

As a result, not a lot happens despite 11 episodes. They spent way too much time on just showing that the empire is eeeevillllll. If this was progressively done, sure. But they couldn't have made it more obvious from the first episode or two. So anything else was too repetitive.
Monster of the week is one thing. This empire is eeevvvilll of the week... Nah.
When I talked to my friend about this anime, he also pointed out that one problem with the show was that the whole eeeeeeevvvvviillll empire thing was too obvious, compared to Iron-Blood Orphan.

Also, another thing that stood out to me was the fact they constantly updated the OP with the dead characters.
..........Pfff, what? How many stories actually waste their time on mourning those no-name, mob NPCs?
Is the audience supposed to feel emotional about characters that at worst, didn't even die on screen? Forget the fact no one remembers their names. But some of these guys just died in-between episodes. And then they pop up in the OP. Was this some case of "Iron-Blood did it... so let's copy the cover!"?

Perhaps it would have been nice if they actually spent more time developing the characters. Then maybe I could care about the characters that aren't Shin and that screeching banshee.
You did have... umm... 1-cour, after all.

7/10
It was there. Not good, but not terribly either. It is a tried formula that works, after all. The story, I mean. Not the 1-cour wasting part.
Also, the Sawano music was average at best, along with animation that didn't really stand-out. I don't usually talk about music, but it is Sawano, after all.

Thor's Hammer · 2021-06-21, 00:37

If it ends up that Shin didn't die, that will be disappointing. I give it a greater than 50% chance that all five of those guys have passed on. I believe that scene with a young Shin and his brother taking him away was meant to depict that he was delivering Shin to salvation and that both of them are now dead. If the headless Shin wasn't enough of a hint, I feel that scene's symbolism should have made it clear, but there are actually people who refuse to believe that Shin is dead for some reason. Even Lena's scene at the end when she remembers Shin's words to put flowers where they died if she ever makes it to their last battlefield was meant to impart a sense of finalty to the old Spearhead Squadron's journey, but I guess some people are that cynical and can't believe that they could actually be dead.

Of note is that the Giad Empire has long fallen, and if that long range unit has the head of a fallen Giad soldier, it’s likely that the princess (of Giad) he is screaming about always protecting is also dead, and the scream could have happened in particular because Shin and co. were near a base of Legion where a unit with the princess’s head could've been, meaning it was firing to prevent Shin from getting to the base and killing the boss unit of the area. They were deep in enemy territory, and although Shin said that if they made it a bit further there would be an area where he can't hear any Legion voices, I'm not convinced that some resistance fighters would've conveniently saved them considering they have no way of knowing Shin and co. were there. I guess there was that damaged Lowe in Episode 10 that could hint of an opposing force there, but after so deliberately shoving into viewers' faces that Shin is dead, I will find it all to be ridiculous if it ended up not being the case. It would be cringeworthy.

Spectacular_Insanity · 2021-06-23, 00:26

That ending was... really bad. It could have been okay in a 24-episode series where characters actually got some amount of development time, but aside from Shin and Lena, I could literally not care less about the rest of the cast.

Honestly, it felt less like a tragedy and more like a footnote to a story that we were never told. There was simply too much missing to make me feel any emotions aside from disappointment at all the wasted potential that this series had starting out.

Basically there was very little REAL development in the relationship between Lena and the 86'ers. So what was even the point of it all? I feel like nihilistic meta-interpretations make for a poor story arc.

Kakurin · 2021-06-23, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

That ending was... really bad. It could have been okay in a 24-episode series where characters actually got some amount of development time, but aside from Shin and Lena, I could literally not care less about the rest of the cast.

Honestly, it felt less like a tragedy and more like a footnote to a story that we were never told. There was simply too much missing to make me feel any emotions aside from disappointment at all the wasted potential that this series had starting out.

Basically there was very little REAL development in the relationship between Lena and the 86'ers. So what was even the point of it all? I feel like nihilistic meta-interpretations make for a poor story arc.

It is a 24 (or 23) episode series, just saying. So you might be jumping the gun here.

Yazi88 · 2021-06-23, 16:48

Yeah everyone is making too many final assumptions for the entire show/cast when it is only 11 episodes when the 2nd half will air this October. Its not even the real finale.

Last Sinner · 2021-06-23, 16:51

You're seriously expecting people to have to wait until a second season for character development to finally get going...on top of no world building...

Just. No. Nothing against those continuing, at all.

Yazi88 · 2021-06-23, 16:54

People have no patience and let their speculation go out of control.

Its fine to have some speculation, but people go overboard with it too often.

Tenzen12 · 2021-06-23, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

You're seriously expecting people to have to wait until a second season for character development to finally get going...on top of no world building...

Just. No. Nothing against those continuing, at all.

How "why you criticize ending in middle of season?" argument have anything to do with what you said? Even if you were 100% right it would still be non sequitur.

That said you are not 100%, right there is plenty of world building.

2021-06-20, 02:44	Link #866
Tenzen12 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	Not everyone though, 86 refer any non Alba and Empire immigrants are just one subset of them. __________________ "I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it" (Charles R. Swindoll)

2021-06-20, 12:34	Link #872
Frontier Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	I mean, I think the core five of the team that we ended up with got enough characterization and moments to stand out amidst the drama (albeit they deal with a lot), which is probably why they were the last ones to survive to begin with . __________________

2021-06-20, 23:47	Link #873
serenade_beta そのおっぱいで13才 Join Date: Dec 2006	Spoiler for final thoughts: Yeah, so there are like 10 volumes or so of this anime. And they only animated like 1 volume? Having 2-cour means you have time to show a lot of story. Having 2-cour doesn't mean you should move at a snails pace. So what, are they gonna spend the 2nd cour on one volume, and be the legendary series that used 2-cour for 2-volumes? What a waste. There are so many stories out there that would kill to get 2-cour. This anime gets that. And then wastes it. As a result, not a lot happens despite 11 episodes. They spent way too much time on just showing that the empire is eeeevillllll. If this was progressively done, sure. But they couldn't have made it more obvious from the first episode or two. So anything else was too repetitive. Monster of the week is one thing. This empire is eeevvvilll of the week... Nah. When I talked to my friend about this anime, he also pointed out that one problem with the show was that the whole eeeeeeevvvvviillll empire thing was too obvious, compared to Iron-Blood Orphan. Also, another thing that stood out to me was the fact they constantly updated the OP with the dead characters. ..........Pfff, what? How many stories actually waste their time on mourning those no-name, mob NPCs? Is the audience supposed to feel emotional about characters that at worst, didn't even die on screen? Forget the fact no one remembers their names. But some of these guys just died in-between episodes. And then they pop up in the OP. Was this some case of "Iron-Blood did it... so let's copy the cover!"? Perhaps it would have been nice if they actually spent more time developing the characters. Then maybe I could care about the characters that aren't Shin and that screeching banshee. You did have... umm... 1-cour, after all. 7/10 It was there. Not good, but not terribly either. It is a tried formula that works, after all. The story, I mean. Not the 1-cour wasting part. Also, the Sawano music was average at best, along with animation that didn't really stand-out. I don't usually talk about music, but it is Sawano, after all. __________________ -Blog --> http://tdnshumi.blogspot.com/ (Mainly about video games) -R.I.P. Hiroshi Yamauchi, Gaming wouldn't have been the same without you (9/19/13)

2021-06-21, 00:37	Link #874
Thor's Hammer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012	If it ends up that Shin didn't die, that will be disappointing. I give it a greater than 50% chance that all five of those guys have passed on. I believe that scene with a young Shin and his brother taking him away was meant to depict that he was delivering Shin to salvation and that both of them are now dead. If the headless Shin wasn't enough of a hint, I feel that scene's symbolism should have made it clear, but there are actually people who refuse to believe that Shin is dead for some reason. Even Lena's scene at the end when she remembers Shin's words to put flowers where they died if she ever makes it to their last battlefield was meant to impart a sense of finalty to the old Spearhead Squadron's journey, but I guess some people are that cynical and can't believe that they could actually be dead. Of note is that the Giad Empire has long fallen, and if that long range unit has the head of a fallen Giad soldier, it’s likely that the princess (of Giad) he is screaming about always protecting is also dead, and the scream could have happened in particular because Shin and co. were near a base of Legion where a unit with the princess’s head could've been, meaning it was firing to prevent Shin from getting to the base and killing the boss unit of the area. They were deep in enemy territory, and although Shin said that if they made it a bit further there would be an area where he can't hear any Legion voices, I'm not convinced that some resistance fighters would've conveniently saved them considering they have no way of knowing Shin and co. were there. I guess there was that damaged Lowe in Episode 10 that could hint of an opposing force there, but after so deliberately shoving into viewers' faces that Shin is dead, I will find it all to be ridiculous if it ended up not being the case. It would be cringeworthy. Last edited by Thor's Hammer; 2021-06-21 at 01:58.

2021-06-23, 00:26	Link #875
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	That ending was... really bad. It could have been okay in a 24-episode series where characters actually got some amount of development time, but aside from Shin and Lena, I could literally not care less about the rest of the cast. Honestly, it felt less like a tragedy and more like a footnote to a story that we were never told. There was simply too much missing to make me feel any emotions aside from disappointment at all the wasted potential that this series had starting out. Basically there was very little REAL development in the relationship between Lena and the 86'ers. So what was even the point of it all? I feel like nihilistic meta-interpretations make for a poor story arc. __________________

2021-06-19, 20:14	Link #861
Random14 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014	The first half of the episode dragged a bit for me, after how last week already showed their life outside the 86th sector. Well, the lead-up to Fido's death was worth it, but that was only half an episode. I didn't expect another episode next week, this already seems like an appropriate ending point, for both the season and even for the series if more episodes weren't already confirmed and if there wasn't already a lot more source material to adapt (if they wanted to). An uncertain fate for the last five of Spearhead, and Lena determined to carry on. Not like house arrest (and whatever other punishment they come up with) matters, not with her knowing the Legion will really invade eventually. Nice to see Lena visit their barracks, too bad she couldn't see them in person but at least its a more direct handover, with her adopting their cat too. Not sure what else they'll do, things are already set for the next arc (whichever direction the anime goes).

2021-06-19, 22:57	Link #863
Gerard07 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016	Having seen the chapter, I really liked these last chapters, Shin's meeting with his brother, Fido's death (I think it's the death that moved me the most), now Lena visiting the base of the 86, in short, to expect more from this anime. Question, this chapter apparently does not coincide with the end of volume 1, do you think that what the special chapter will be about next week?.

2021-06-19, 23:08	Link #864
HtwoN Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Texas, US	So the Republic uses English and the Empire uses Japanese. Interesting. Great "final". The show could just end here and it would be perfectly fine.

2021-06-20, 03:23	Link #867
Calca Expressionless Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Walking on the path known as life	Ugh, this is why I try to avoid tragedy animes/mangas. Don't like feeling like crap afterwards.

2021-06-23, 16:48	Link #877
Yazi88 Member Join Date: May 2019	Yeah everyone is making too many final assumptions for the entire show/cast when it is only 11 episodes when the 2nd half will air this October. Its not even the real finale.

2021-06-23, 16:51	Link #878
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	You're seriously expecting people to have to wait until a second season for character development to finally get going...on top of no world building... Just. No. Nothing against those continuing, at all. __________________

2021-06-23, 16:54	Link #879
Yazi88 Member Join Date: May 2019	People have no patience and let their speculation go out of control. Its fine to have some speculation, but people go overboard with it too often.