2009-03-17, 19:15 | Link #4081 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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zero is more then a man
he is a symbol or a concept that represents justice and freedom suzaku's role would be to serve in that role forever as a "hero of justice" rather then a specific role that could be bolied down to "bodyguard" or "strategist" personally i kinda wonder if he can handle it for long without support suzaku may have accepted the "geass" from lelouch but lelouch was never ONLY zero he always had his normal life to fall back to and had probably planned to retaire from that role later on after getting everything he wanted suzaku by contrast can never have any normal life and will always be ONLY zero with no hope of ever being able to have a normal life (or even personal happiness) and like C.C told kallen the man who wears the mask must carry the world on his shoulders...
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2009-03-18, 05:03 | Link #4083 | ||
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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@Frost: Lelouch hates you because you do not get what he did get about Nunna-chan being on his same wavelenght! *_*!!! Jokes aside, Nunnaly has no power but that of being able to get some from Schneizel showing herself in being ready to do anything in bringing Lelouch down. She probably understood (unlike Cornelia, that was never that brilliant...) that Schneizel would have let her room because the advantage of having her facing Lelouch directly. What she said shows that she understood the function of Damocles system, and elaborate a way for destroying Schneizel's plan from the inside. Schneizel wanted to keep the world frozen in terror, Nunnaly wants the world to unite against a common enemy. Why she did not fix the world? You say she didn't get that part, but how if she never had a chance to do that? How could she anyway? For a crippled girl of fifteen that has been held in a bubble of glass for half of her existence, it doesn't seems this less to me, but we all know by now how high are your standards............*sigh* (and anyway, I would not call what Lelouch did to Britannia a 'fix', rather shattering it to piece so that it could never get back to its original form. About this 'Emperor of Justice' thing, keep in mind that, like any tyrant, Lelouch massively used propaganda- and in an intelligent way, since he's brilliant. His reign is disquieting from the very start, even from outside, even not knowing what Geass is, this kind of absolute dictatorship, altought leading some improvements, always has a dark side of the medal everyone'd be able to figure...) |
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2009-03-18, 08:31 | Link #4084 | |||
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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I would except nothing less of a 15 year old girl that had been held in a bubble. What I expect and what she is, however, are very different things. I expected her to act like an idiot, and she did act like an idiot. The inherent problem, however, is that she never did in the past. She did not blindly trust people prior to the final arc. Quote:
You can't just call him a tyrant because you want to, he did nothing tyranical until during the 2 month skip where we don't know what happened. Prior to that the people considered him the greatest Emperor. It is people who define a tyrant, not you. There was a reason the KoR were publicly feared by everyone, and there was a reason that Lelouch was loved. Especially since it wasn't even an absolute dictatorship which is entirely debunked by what is said about him in the show itself. He desolved the Areas system and gave the people back their countries. He liberated everyone, that is why everyone loved him, even the people of the former Areas and even the Japanese. That is not a dictatorship. Especially not even remotely close to an absolute one. Please, stop making stuff up. |
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2009-03-18, 08:56 | Link #4085 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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i dont think nunnaly knew about the full extent of shnizel's CB plan
she didnt know he really destroyed pendragon becouse he didnt tell her the truth do you really think he would tell her (nunnaly, the 2nd euphie) about his plan to kill millions ? she knew that the damocles would be used as a looming threat, but i doubt she knew how far he would go to achive such a threat (and he wouldnt tell her since she was just bait anyway) and her willingness to fire the freya during the actual battle basiclly is made up of 1)one part intense desire to stop her brother, which she took to seeing as her personal resposibility, which was so intense that she was able to despell her geass in order to achive it 2)and one part character derailment that was so widespread during the last arc
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2009-03-18, 12:15 | Link #4086 | |
U Mad?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn NY
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I guess you can argue that people don't do much thinking during war. But Nunnaly firing weapons of mass destruction is just a tad off.
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2009-03-18, 12:25 | Link #4087 |
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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@Frost: 1) I think Nunnaly was mostly faking to not understand what Schneizel was doing for the aforementioned reasons: she needed Schneizel to give her part of the power to do something herself. This is not even hinted untill the moment she came to face Lelouch for a suspence effect, but she understand perfectly what she was doing, otherwise what she said to him would not make any sense.
And she knew about Geass. Everything... once you know about Geass, it won't be that hard to understand what Lelouch has done so far. 2) If you'd read my posts instead of disagree with them by default, you'll maybe see what I'm really talking about. I nevere said that all he did was wrong, on the contrary, but there are obscure elements in his management of power from the start, and it is a dictatorship/absolute monarchy/ whatever you want to call it, since there's only one man taking decisions on his own for a whole nation. It might be the best decision possible, but it will still be a form of dictatorship. If you have a better word to teach me to call this form of governement, be my guest. He did some good things that allowed him to be taken into consideration by the UNF, but he took power in a minute, declared he killed his father to get the throne and got immediate consensus out of the blue and in global broadcasting, he crushed his opposition with brute force. Lelouch put his court and thousands of soldiers under Geass (those people were brainwahsed and probably never returned to their family, so someone will know..) He's the head of the most powerfull Empire of the world - if you find him not even slightly dangerous, then you are being naive at least. On the propaganda thing, Lelouch used it intelligently, since he did also a lot of demostrative acts to show that the old Britannia is gone forever, and this, together with the freeing Areas policy earned him some consideration among the UNF, but he also broadcasted the battle between the KoR and Suzaku. What's the purpose of that? Both showing old Britannia has been defeated and the fact that his Knight alone could take care of a whole small army. He wanted to be feared, not only loved. See, I'm not making up anything. And.. are you insinuating I want Lelouch to be worst than he is....? How the hell you know ° °? Are you still inside my head? It doesn't seems the case, because I do not. *thinks again of Kallen the spouse of Satan just in case* =P |
2009-03-18, 12:50 | Link #4088 |
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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1.) There's no indication she was faking to any great extent. Quite the contrary in fact. She was launching those nukes for pretty much the sole purpose of ending her brother's sins. That later conversation about hatred seems to jive more with Schenizel's plan than what Lelouch intended, not that the two plans are all that dissimilar. She recognized that Damocles was a weapon of unrivaled power, and that people would come to hate it, but this is not really her plan.
2.) Even a dictatorship is not necessarily bad, and the only difference in rule between Charles and Lelouch is a bit more transparency. Charles did the same thing, and didn't really have to answer to the lesser government positions. Lelouch merely made his decisions publicly. What he did to gain his power is of little consequence in light of what he uses it for. By all accounts, he did nothing but good in the eyes of the common man and even the people who knew how he obtained that power, yet they treat him like crap at the ceremony regardless. I'm not saying they were entirely wrong in their requests, it is reasonable to prevent total vote control by a single nation, but 20%? That's not being cautious, that's being petty, and the pop-up barrier is a slap in the face at surface value. For all the good he did, he got no respect for it (I expected it from Ohgi and the others, but I honestly thought Kaguya and Xingke would at least give him the benefit of the doubt). Frankly, they did nothing but give him the excuse he needed with their actions. The Suzaku/KoR battle served to cement his rule. Ever heard the phrase "speak softly, but carry a big stick"? Fear is just as important as respect to a good ruler. You want to come across as a nice guy, but also one that could thoroughly kick ass if called to task. Not only was that battle something any leader, intentionally evil or not, would benefit from broadcasting worldwide, it was a perfectly natural move.
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2009-03-18, 13:14 | Link #4089 |
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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Well, morbos said pretty much everything I would have, so I will let you reply to him, and I'll jump in if he doesn't reply before I do again. (I am at work and I can only sporadically type up a post so it takes me a while to post.)
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2009-03-18, 15:02 | Link #4090 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Since when was Nunally emotionally and psychologically stable?
Compared to Lelouch, maybe... But it's still not surprising that she kind of lost it in the end. People kept lying to her, including Suzaku and the brother who was her world as much as she was his. Her plan wasn't even retarded. Just not logical enough to make her appear as sane as people might have expected. It didn't surprise me, and after reading Stage 0, it makes even more sense that she more or less cracked eventually. Not to mention that it's her birth right to be a bit psycho... xD
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2009-03-18, 16:29 | Link #4091 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-03-18, 16:48 | Link #4092 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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But since Nunally isn't Clovis, I can't bring myself to go very deep into this. My mind is in fangirl land already. xD Quote:
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2009-03-18, 16:57 | Link #4093 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-03-18, 17:01 | Link #4094 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Hell, Lelouch has a lot of will power, and he is not exactly the most sane person around. Quote:
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2009-03-18, 17:08 | Link #4095 | |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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Also Lelouch is a poor example since he has seen to crack under pressure when the situation doesn't go as planned (Mao, Xingke, etc.). Try choosing a better character to support your argument. |
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2009-03-18, 17:12 | Link #4096 | |
Banned
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Lelouch is a sane person.{strictly with the definition of this word} He just has extreme reactions, only when the situation requires that {for example, when he found out Nunally is "dead"} but that does not mean, he is not having a normal healthy mind. Quite the opposite actually, he seems to be able to maintain his ability to be reasonable through lot of "difficult" circumstances. |
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2009-03-18, 17:17 | Link #4097 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Nunally may be strong, but those things are bound to leave emotional scars. Quote:
Hell, you need to have them if you can order a bunch of soldiers to kill themselves and smile, or to shoot someone you grew up with in the head without flinching (even if you throw up the next day in school). Not that he didn't have his reasons, but there are a lot of things about Lelouch that make it difficult for me to even consider him being "sane", beginning with what he tells Suzaku in one of the Sound Dramas as a child. Then again, it probably depends on how you define "sanity".
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2009-03-18, 17:37 | Link #4098 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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